NEWS: Update on Kaleidescape Vault!

[cinelife]

Thank you Tom! That should clear things up.


Jim

 

[iansilv]

yes- thank you!

 

[JDS]

Thanks to Tom for such an informative response.

If K's plans come to fruition with regard to region codes K will have delivered an excellent BluRay solution for multi region users.

I should have expected nothing less.

 

[JerryL]

Thank you Tom.

 

[Panamar]

An Integrated Disc Vault with region A could store and import Blu-ray Discs of any region code. Any M500 Player can import Blu-ray Discs of any region code.

Tom

Hi Tom

Can you please clarify this for me. Does this mean any M500 player (A or B) that has the Region A IDV in the group can import Blu-ray Discs of any region code?

Or

Any M500 Player can import Blu-ray Discs of any region code. Period?

I tried to import (unknowingly) the Region B Bluray of WallE and my Region A M500 refused to import it with the usual region error code message.

Im guessing the former...

thanks

Panamar

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

The basic difference between DVD and BluRay is this:

DVD checks the region code at the disc drive. Once loaded, they don't check. That is why you need a loader/reader for each region but then they will play back on any player.

BluRay checks the region code durin the playback. This way, each player would need to be the correct region but a loader will work for all regions.

It will be sweet when Kaleidescape works it out that if you have the correct region on your network, it would unlock that region for all players.

 

[brodricj]

It will be sweet when Kaleidescape works it out that if you have the correct region on your network, it would unlock that region for all players.

That is my understanding of what Tom said. If you have an IDV-A, and any number of other players, you can import and play all content from any region, and play all content from any player, as long as one of those players is a -B.

 

[TomBarnett]

Hello Panamar,

Any M500 Player can import Blu-ray Discs of any region code. Period.

A KPLAYER-M500-A should import your region B Wall-E disc. At playback, the Blu-ray movie checks the region code of the player and can display a message from the disc.

Please try your import again. Are you sure the error didn't appear at playback time, and that the disc is not a DVD?

Tom

 

[TomBarnett]

brodricj wrote:

And the big news many of us are waiting for, will the IDV decode uncompressed audio tracks like DTS-HDMA to LPCM?

The Integrated Disc Vault will use the same generation of hardware as the M500 and M300 Players, and will therefore have the same audio capabilities.

We know that player decoding of the lossless audio codecs with 7.1 linear PCM output at the original sample rate is very important to our customers with Meridian, Halcro, Mark Levinson, Lexicon and other audio processors that do not accept bitstreams of these formats. But we also do not want the introduction of the Integrated Disc Vault to be held up waiting for the next generation of high-performance hardware.

 

[cinelife]

Guys, several of you have contacted me privately to ask if you are reading Tom's words correctly. Yes, you are. These new vaults will not be capable of decoding the HD Codecs. The HD audio (DTS MA and Dolby TrueHD) will continue to be sent bitstream. This WILL NOT change in the near term.

I can tell you that K did not ignore the requests of those owner's with equipment that lacks internal HD Codec decoding (see above). I'm one of those owner's as well (Halcro).

Their engineers investigated what it would take to accommodate these owners and found the time, complexities, and cost were significant. As we all know, K is a specialized product line with a limited client base. They don't sell to the mass consumer market that allows for economies of scale to keep costs reasonable, especially costs associated with engineering changes.

I did not realize just how much work goes into producing a product that will convert the bitstream into LPCM until I had contact with one of the major board manufacturers yesterday. I was gathering info on what it would take to produce a product that would accept the HDMI bitstream from a KPLAYER and convert to LPCM. There is A LOT of work that goes into design, engineering, construction, and firmware, not to mention separate licensing from the HDMI and HD Codec folks (which turns out to be substantial, if you can even get them to talk to you). The licensing associated with the HD audio side is apparently separate from the underlying licenses for standard Dolby/DTS, if I understood the guy correctly. Then you also have to produce enough units to keep the costs "reasonable," which is by most standards "unreasonable" (more than $2-$3K, and that's if you produce 100+ units). How many owner's need this product? 10?, 20?

There really is no "general" market (to sell to) in my opinion because current BR players on the market already decode the HD codecs internally, or owner's have Receivers/SSP's that do that internally. If these owner's do have older equipment it is likely because they don't feel the need to upgrade, or for monetary reasons, so how likely are they to buy a $2-$3,000 box used only for decoding?

That said, I'd be curious as to how many K owner's would actually pay $2-$3K for a separate decoding device. (I know Jerry would!)

Jim

 

[Transepoch]

That said, I'd be curious as to how many K owner's would actually pay $2-$3K for a separate decoding device. (I know Jerry would!)

Jim

It's not that bad a deal compared to the extra space and power required for using a mid-to-high-end receiver as a decoder.

 

[brodricj]

That said, I'd be curious as to how many K owner's would actually pay $2-$3K for a separate decoding device...

Not me, I wouldn't spend any more than $500 on an external decoder. And I won't be buying the IDV or M500 until internal decoding to LPCM is supported. Instead I'll just use the $400 PS3 which I already own for BR playback. My Kaleidescape system will stay DVD only.

 

[JerryL]

I might.

I hold out hope something will change.

I dont doubt what you've said at all Jim. But the question I keep coming back to is- if its that tough, and that expensive, how can some of these lower priced players include this ability and not be forced to charge an arm and a leg for it?

The simple fact of the matter is Meridian, Halcro, etc are missing an opportunity, IMHO, because they could take the bitstream from a player, and then have a high quality box, do the decoding, they could probably charge $3500 for it and people would buy it.


brodricj sums up my feelings as well- I'll just not spend my money with K if they don't offer the features that are important to me.

 

[brodricj]

The simple fact of the matter is Meridian, Halcro, etc are missing an opportunity..

Further development of the existing Halcro SSP platform has ceased. There won't be a new Halcro SSP for a long time, if ever, it's not even on their radar.

The simple fact of the matter is, we need to upgrade our processors if we want to experience uncompressed BR audio on a Kaleidescape system. And as time goes by, there is even less incentive for Kaleidescape to add it to their hardware spec as the number of legacy processors in use decline. Actually, if it's so technically challenging, I won't be surprised if uncompressed LPCM remains unsupported on the M600 or whatever comes next.

 

[cinelife]

It's not that bad a deal compared to the extra space and power required for using a mid-to-high-end receiver as a decoder.

Good point.

Jim

 

[cinelife]

Not me, I wouldn't spend any more than $500 on an external decoder. And I won't be buying the IDV or M500 until internal decoding to LPCM is supported. Instead I'll just use the $400 PS3 which I already own for BR playback. My Kaleidescape system will stay DVD only.

I thought as much, and suspect you are not alone in this regard, which is why I doubt anyone will waste the money and effort to develop the device.

K acknowledges owner's in your (our) position may "opt out" of BR. I can tell you from my discussions with folks at K they understood our angst and did investigate a solution. Unfortunately, the solution would take a long time to implement and would not make economic sense (that last comment is my own, not theirs, having investigated this as well). They ARE disappointed that some owner's may opt out, not because of lost revenue, but because they are not currently able to provide support for everyone.


Jim

 

[cinelife]

...... But the question I keep coming back to is- if its that tough, and that expensive, how can some of these lower priced players include this ability and not be forced to charge an arm and a leg for it?.......

Just the economies of scale, and obviously designing for this functionality from day one.

(Funny, I spoke with a Sony guy locally today, and he indicated they were preparing for the upcoming sale day by ramping up inventory at one particular location. He told me they were bringing in 400 3D panels, and 800 BR Players, and expected all to be sold by mid-day. That is only ONE location, and that's in Honolulu. Imagine how many they plan to sell throughout the country (or world). How many KPLAYER's will sell during that same period?)


Jim

 

[cinelife]

........The simple fact of the matter is, we need to upgrade our processors if we want to experience uncompressed BR audio on a Kaleidescape system.......

Yup, I'm afraid so, I plan to move to Bryston's new SP3, which is releasing over the next month. Being a dealer keeps the cost reasonable.


Jim

 

[Panamar]

Hello Panamar,

Any M500 Player can import Blu-ray Discs of any region code. Period.

A KPLAYER-M500-A should import your region B Wall-E disc. At playback, the Blu-ray movie checks the region code of the player and can display a message from the disc.

Tom

Hi Tom

My apologise, you are indeed correct the disc did transfer to the server but I could not play it from there.

Thank you for your reply.

Panamar

 

[moviefan]

It is interesting to me that I am told by my surround sound processor manufacturer that the blu ray specs actually call for the decoding to be done in the player. Any comments?