Kaleidescape today announced the launch of a new product line called Encore

[fritzcurtis]

Mark H...right there with you. This is primarily what K wants us eventually to do anyway is to stop adding to these systems so they eventually die with the settlement and K can finally put that chapter behind them. As such, have three of my servers up for sale now and will be putting a 3U up for sale shortly. I refuse to dump cash into old technology. Hello VuDu!!

 

[Techthusiasm]

Interesting that people would abandon K. I can see if you're spent tens of thousands and feel slighted by the new direct.

Question though: did you buy into K for convenience or for quality? If you bought for convenience to content, then surely a Roku and VUDU would or Fire TV and Amazon Video would match. If you bought for quality though, streaming is generally a noticeable degradation from disc-level bit rates and audio.

Trying to figure out what to buy into myself, it's a tough call to pay for the quality or forego it for convenience. The more I use Amazon Video and such, the more I'm OK with how it looks for the most part. By many accounts, UHD streaming surpasses Blu-ray in quality and will carry HDR and immersive audio formats. It will be interesting to see if UHD physical media/K store download quality is as much of a stretch over streaming.

 

[iansilv]

I bought for convenience, quality and the interface.

 

[Mr. Integration]

Not a cheerleader for Kaliedescape by any means but this was the only real path they could go. There are plenty of positive things about this introduction. If you want 4k Content you will need to upgrade every component in the video path. This will simply mean adding another input for the 4K. Disc is dead. This is not a choice. The studios want downloads and they are driving content. There was never going to be a choice importing 4K Blu Rays. The server price is way cheaper. 8k for 24 TB in a chassis. Yes is will not add to your existing premiere. Simple solution buy a systems for downloads and keep your premiere for imports. This is not as nice as having it all in one but that was never going to happen. Switching the input is not that big of a deal. The premiere will end up being only for legacy discs.

I wish the lawsuit had never happened but it did and this is the reality.

 

[Kicker]

I expected having to buy a new player for 4K and subsequently more storage. I'm sure I'll fill up the existing 1U even after switching to 4K. But if I have a 4k player and storage then there should be no reason why I couldn't see the entire Encore+Premiere collection through one interface.

 

[Mark H]

I agree re legacy and as a buyer mainly of content that is unlikely to ever be in the store I will be keeping my systems and even adding capacity. Disc may be dead for the US film studios but luckily there is masses of excellent content that will remain available as physical discs for many years to come.
I may be tempted re 4K, I already have 2 TV's that are UHD ones but the marketing hype is still a long way ahead of the content quality - a poor quality film regardless of resolution is still a poor quality film.

 

[iansilv]

There is still no reason a 3U server in the premiere line cannot store 4K downloads and a new premiere line player can play that 4K content from our existing servers.

 

[JohnJ]

Not a cheerleader for Kaliedescape by any means but this was the only real path they could go. There are plenty of positive things about this introduction. If you want 4k Content you will need to upgrade every component in the video path. This will simply mean adding another input for the 4K. Disc is dead. This is not a choice. The studios want downloads and they are driving content. There was never going to be a choice importing 4K Blu Rays. The server price is way cheaper. 8k for 24 TB in a chassis. Yes is will not add to your existing premiere. Simple solution buy a systems for downloads and keep your premiere for imports. This is not as nice as having it all in one but that was never going to happen. Switching the input is not that big of a deal. The premiere will end up being only for legacy discs.

I wish the lawsuit had never happened but it did and this is the reality.

If the disc is dead, why are we seeing so many demos of 4K Ultra Blu-Ray players and why all of the articles about these discs supposedly debuting by the end of 2015?

There will be physical media going forward - the market is to big to just ignore.

John

 

[smiley]

Probably a behind-the-scenes legal reason (studio agreements, etc.) that are preventing K from integrating with the Premier line. Let's look on the bright side; maybe with Premier sunsetting, K will finally give us a drive initialization tool

 

[djb_rh]

Probably a behind-the-scenes legal reason (studio agreements, etc.) that are preventing K from integrating with the Premier line. Let's look on the bright side; maybe with Premier sunsetting, K will finally give us a drive initialization tool

Without 4K players and the ability to download 4K content for Premier, there is no bright side for Premier owners. Our systems have become legacy systems, but thanks to proprietary hard drives, they are only legacy systems for as long as K decides to support them or as long as your drives last. I'd be willing to bet that the drives require custom firmware, not *just* initialization, meaning at a certain point we're screwed.

Big damned shame, is this is where we end up. I feel like that's what signs are pointing to, though. The movie industry made K move on. More studios will come to the store, but likely not for Premier. Which SUCKS.


--Donnie

 

[Rosedale]

Die Die

 

[Spizzy]

If the disc is dead, why are we seeing so many demos of 4K Ultra Blu-Ray players and why all of the articles about these discs supposedly debuting by the end of 2015?

There will be physical media going forward - the market is to big to just ignore.

John

Agreed.

 

[Yetis]

A couple of things I learned to while talking with a kscape engineer.

1) They do not plan an upgrade path from Premier to Encore. They are recommending you keep the Premier and operate it along side you Encore solution.
2) The disc server is different than the disk vault. The discs stored in the disc server are not ripped to the Terra server, but instead or played directly from the disc server. Therefor you can play ONLY one title at a time for discs in the disc server.
3) The Terra server does NOT have any protection (e.g. if you lose a drive, while the content on the other drives will not be impacted, the content on the failed drive must be re-downloaded (will be done automatically is my understanding), but at 50 or even 100 mbits downloading will take ~ 7 days with assuming full throughput at 100 mbits). My comment to them is this is totally unrealistic.
4) I was surprised they are only running a single 1gb Ethernet connection for the Terra Server.

Overall was impressed with the product, but in my opinion they have taken a few steps back, especially with no protection against data loss on the Terra Server.

Bryan

I think the grim reality is that this is all accurate. I suspect you use the encore line for online store and UHD content and the premier line for disk not supported.
Also, I have heard there are no 6 or 8tb coming, due to tech limitations.

Personally, I am disappointed. But really disappointed with how the whole things was managed by K management. Either in person or on social media. Why not just tell people vs just suggesting something is in the works. I would add that I think the Encore line is easy to duplicate. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some competing products sooner than later. Needless to say, the company just crushed some of its most loyal supports.

 

[Techthusiasm]

Was thinking about this some more last night and if you discount physical media support as they are, I think K really stands to lose as soon as another service steps up their quality. It's a shame Apple hasn't done this.

Apple could kill K in on easy swoop with a new $150 box compared to a $4500 one if they would just match quality. Think about it:

- Apple allows downloads so you don't always have to stream.
- You can store those downloads on your own incredibly cheaper NAS and serve them off any PC or Mac.
- Content on iTunes kills the K store in terms of quantity, special features, and so on.
- You can integrate your own content from same said storage and server.
- Things are well priced with sales and the ability to buy iTunes cards frequently at 10-20% off.
- Apple integrates DMA. Could at some point be a UV or Vidity partner.
- K has no advantage over Apple in terms of UI or ease of use.

The only drawback is video quality. Apple remains stuck at measly 5 Mbps 1080p encodes with 5.1 limited bit rate standard Dolby digital. Quality is really the only defining factor for K.

 

[brodricj]

....
3) The Terra server does NOT have any protection (e.g. if you lose a drive, while the content on the other drives will not be impacted, the content on the failed drive must be re-downloaded (will be done automatically is my understanding), but at 50 or even 100 mbits downloading will take ~ 7 days with assuming full throughput at 100 mbits)...

Considering it can take upwards of 25 minutes to download a 40 Megabyte file over my superfast ADSL2+ broadband, to re-download content of a failed Terra server disc will take roughly 8 years in my part of the world. It aint gonna happen.

 

[Jerry D]

Where's Jim?
No sign of him since Thursday. This seems odd. Any guesses what has happened?
A - he's on vacation
B - he's not bothered by the news
C - he's been busy behind the scenes finding out what the hell is going on and hasn't found out anything useful to share yet
D - he's so devastated at the events of last week that he's severed his links with K, sold all his K gear and has left the forum
E - none of the above

Any thoughts?
J

 

[cmcgehee]

Where's Jim?
No sign of him since Thursday. This seems odd. Any guesses what has happened?
A - he's on vacation
B - he's not bothered by the news
C - he's been busy behind the scenes finding out what the hell is going on and hasn't found out anything useful to share yet
D - he's so devastated at the events of last week that he's severed his links with K, sold all his K gear and has left the forum
E - none of the above

Any thoughts?
J

I'm guessing Jim is out of town. He's a huge Notre Dame fan, so maybe he was back at the USC game. I had some issues come up with my server yesterday and reached out for help. It's never taken him more than about 10 minutes to get back to me and he still hasn't reached out. He's got to be out of town or maybe even out of the country having fun. Nobody is a more loyal K supporter than Jim, and he is an excellent dealer and even nicer guy. That being said, I can't wait to hear his take on things.
Chris

 

[Jerry D]

I am sure that must be right - his insight and generosity has always been one of the things that make this forum so pleasant and useful. Which is why the radio silence is so unusual.

 

[iansilv]

Where's Jim?
No sign of him since Thursday. This seems odd. Any guesses what has happened?
A - he's on vacation
B - he's not bothered by the news
C - he's been busy behind the scenes finding out what the hell is going on and hasn't found out anything useful to share yet
D - he's so devastated at the events of last week that he's severed his links with K, sold all his K gear and has left the forum
E - none of the above

Any thoughts?
J

F - Meditating in the fortress of solitude.

Seriously I hope he can shed some light on what is happening with the premiere line.

 

[Jerry D]

My (very ill informed) perspective on this is that no company can ever succeed if they treat their existing customer base with contempt. So I can only imagine the premiere line will continue to be supported for many years to come, with further developments as they become technically possible.
I would be shocked if Kaleidescape cannot/ will not do this. But they need to make this clear very quickly to the customers that supported them through thick and thin over the years.
If they can't do this, they won't survive - no trust with dealers and customers. Imagine the bad press.