Stratos S 6tb with failed hard drive

[cinelife]

I’m probably going to take heat here, I just can’t see why these couldn’t be repaired with new drives. It would take 5 mins to replace one.

Not sure why you'd "take heat" from anyone here. The comments I posted above were based on answers I received from K when I asked why the drives were not field replaceable. I never personally opened a chassis to determine how complex it would be to replace a drive, so I defer to your pic and comment in this regard. I'll let K comment further if there's any interest, but you certainly have the right to comment, and provide your opinion.

Jim

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

Physically replacing it isn't the difficulty. All it takes is a screwdriver and possibly an Allen wrench.

The difficulty is that there are not parts available and getting a drive off the shelf somewhere, even if it is the exact same make and model, does not work because it has to be formatted in a proprietary format and loaded with software we do not have access to.

 

[racecardriver]

I understand the the answer given is Ks answer.

And the Strato S procedure is near identical to compact Terra, I guess my point of not having a service option from K seems to be a choice.

It sure would be nice to keep older hardware in service beyond warranty if a consumer wanted to, even if it involved a trip back to the factory. My point is replacing the drive is not difficult by any means. They appear to be nothing more than a $200-300 Data Center drive these days and readily available.

 

[LoveCinema]

I understand the the answer given is Ks answer.

And the Strato S procedure is near identical to compact Terra, I guess my point of not having a service option from K seems to be a choice.

It sure would be nice to keep older hardware in service beyond warranty if a consumer wanted to, even if it involved a trip back to the factory. My point is replacing the drive is not difficult by any means. They appear to be nothing more than a $200-300 Data Center drive readily available.

First, I agree on all points. Keeping hardware in circulation is always good, and older/cheaper hardware is great to introduce new owners to K.

But, realistically, let's imagine what such a service would cost given what we know about K. Because grabbing an off-the-shelf drive and swapping it out for a few hundred isn't something that would ever exist in the world of Kaleidescape.

Back when they were simply reinitializing drives, you'd have to pay $250 just for a software service. Today, if you want to replace a 6TB drive in an out-of-warranty full-size Terra, you're looking at $800 to purchase the drive and replace it yourself.

So, let's take a guess... The drive ($800), charges for removal/installation/testing ($250-$500), shipping back and forth ($200)... I think drive replacement on a Strato S 6TB would likely be in the $1,250-$1,500 range from K. That means we could be talking about a $1,500 repair on a device that sells on this forum for about $2,000.

Again, I'm not agreeing with K's choice to not repair even for a price, I'm just speculating on the context of said choice.

 

[kragan]

All good points and discussion. I've also wondered about why the Statos with storage couldn't have reverted to player only function (like a Strato C) when the drives inside them failed. That would have been a great feature to help prolong the use of the player for those of us that also added Terra servers to our systems.

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

I believe the system software boots from the hard drive, so if that fails, the system fails. It isn't loaded from a chip or flash memory, unfortunately.

 

[racecardriver]

The actual drive used in the 6TB examples is a $250 drive these days. Model for model, spec for spec, WD Data Center drive.

Now sure, you factor in the cost for whatever it takes for K to do their magic and keep the content safe. All I’m saying is it’s not an expensive drive, and it’s not a difficult procedure to remove and replace.

Loading whatever they do onto at the factory, sure I don’t expect people to be easily replace these at their kitchen table, but let’s not pretend the drives are not available or the surgery can only be done by someone with special tools.

Small phillips screwdriver is all it takes. Would really love to understand why a new drive couldn’t be installed at the factory, outside of warranty, for a cost.

 

[racecardriver]

All good points and discussion. I've also wondered about why the Statos with storage couldn't have reverted to player only function (like a Strato C) when the drives inside them failed. That would have been a great feature to help prolong the use of the player for those of us that also added Terra servers to our systems.

If you saw the board in a Strato S and Strato C you would quickly realize they are the same with an empty WiFi card slot.

 

[racecardriver]

To clarify, I’m not trying to argue with any members here or even Kaleidescape. Just trying to share that the procedure to physically open and replace a drive in these is not difficult, and looking up the drive model gives me a price of around $250.

I figured most have not opened or seen inside a Strato, so I’d share.

 

[Transepoch]

Considering the 3U power supply was considered field replicable (which it is - but a real PITA, even with the right tools,) I'm taken back a bit to see something as simple as swapping those drives declared too difficult. Is there a thermal glue pad underneath, which could result in serious damage if not handled correctly?

That said, deciding not to fix them in-house could just be an issue of not wanting to take the liability for someone claiming damage due to their work in the factory.

 

[DieZwei]

So, let's take a guess... The drive ($800), charges for removal/installation/testing ($250-$500), shipping back and forth ($200)... I think drive replacement on a Strato S 6TB would likely be in the $1,250-$1,500 range from K. That means we could be talking about a $1,500 repair on a device that sells on this forum for about $2,000.

The Strato S sell so cheap because there´s a large risk involved that the drive dies. If the drive would be repairable even after warranty, I´m sure the value of used Strato S would go up.
We´ve got a couple of clients who would be happily paying $1.500,- for repair rather than paying a multitude for that getting a Strato V with a much smaller drive or a Strato + Terra combo as a replacement.

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

Definitely the resale price of the Strato S would go up if the drives were replaceable - especially if they could be replaced with the larger 18TB+ drives being used today.

If I could have put an 8TB+ SSD drive in my Strato S, I would have kept that and used it for my RV.

 

[JWort93]

First, I agree on all points. Keeping hardware in circulation is always good, and older/cheaper hardware is great to introduce new owners to K.

But, realistically, let's imagine what such a service would cost given what we know about K. Because grabbing an off-the-shelf drive and swapping it out for a few hundred isn't something that would ever exist in the world of Kaleidescape.

Back when they were simply reinitializing drives, you'd have to pay $250 just for a software service. Today, if you want to replace a 6TB drive in an out-of-warranty full-size Terra, you're looking at $800 to purchase the drive and replace it yourself.

So, let's take a guess... The drive ($800), charges for removal/installation/testing ($250-$500), shipping back and forth ($200)... I think drive replacement on a Strato S 6TB would likely be in the $1,250-$1,500 range from K. That means we could be talking about a $1,500 repair on a device that sells on this forum for about $2,000.

Again, I'm not agreeing with K's choice to not repair even for a price, I'm just speculating on the context of said choice.

At one point in the not too distant past, they were fine allowing field replaceable optical drives for the Cinema One, with a process that looks a fair bit more complicated than what it would take to replace a hard drive in a Strato/Strato C/Compact Terra (but still not that bad all things considered): https://support.kaleidescape.com/support/article/Cinema-One-Optical-Drive-Replacement

I really think allowing DIY (pre-formatted by K) hard drive replacements to be purchased and installed by end users would go a long way to building customer loyalty, but I don't really see that happening in the near future unfortunately.

 

[DieZwei]

I think one important piece of the puzzle is the encryption they are obliged to use to safeguard the content. I´m pretty sure they have very strict rules about altering the devices.
IMHO it´s similar to the madVR Envy - basically, it is a PC and it would be an easy task to open it up and do changes/repairs/etc. But it´s not allowed as they´d lose their HDCP/HDMI-certification.

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

Well, we are allowed to swap out hard drives in their premier line. Perhaps it was part of the higher level of security required to access 4k content? Then again, we have some Terra servers with field swappable drives (in warranty). That said, nothing stops people from opening them up and trying to repair them. I have yet to hear of anybody having success doing so on a hard drive.

If you want to talk about difficult drives to replace, don't talk about the Cinema One and start talking about replacing the optical drive on an M-700 or DV-700. I was able to bring back one of my two bad drive units to life recently. Lots of work to swap out those drives. Certainly more than it would be to change a drive on a Strato-S.

 

[DieZwei]

Well, we are allowed to swap out hard drives in their premier line. Perhaps it was part of the higher level of security required to access 4k content? Then again, we have some Terra servers with field swappable drives (in warranty). That said, nothing stops people from opening them up and trying to repair them. I have yet to hear of anybody having success doing so on a hard drive.

Mh, true.

If you want to talk about difficult drives to replace, don't talk about the Cinema One and start talking about replacing the optical drive on an M-700 or DV-700. I was able to bring back one of my two bad drive units to life recently. Lots of work to swap out those drives. Certainly more than it would be to change a drive on a Strato-S.

Tell me about it - just did that a few weeks ago.

 

[Substance]

I understand the the answer given is Ks answer.

And the Strato S procedure is near identical to compact Terra, I guess my point of not having a service option from K seems to be a choice.

It sure would be nice to keep older hardware in service beyond warranty if a consumer wanted to, even if it involved a trip back to the factory. My point is replacing the drive is not difficult by any means. They appear to be nothing more than a $200-300 Data Center drive these days and readily available.

Your best option is to clone the drive to a new one, which will transfer all the formatting, proprietary software, and your content. However, since the original drive is damaged, this process might also transfer corrupted data or fail due to unreadable sectors. Keep in mind that the firmware for the HDD isn’t included in the cloning process. If the Strato system checks to confirm the HDD is one of their own, it will likely fail this test. Additionally, if the data on the HDD is encrypted, the encryption keys may not match with the cloned drive.

You could send the failed drive to a specialized HDD repair shop with a clean room, but this can be as expensive as buying a new Strato, especially if the drive has a mechanical failure.

As for why Kaleidescape would go to such lengths to prevent this, it’s likely because they are not just a hardware company; they provide a home cinema experience. The hardware is a small part of their offering but a significant part of their revenue. It’s natural for them to want to control it.

While it might seem simple to allow users to replace parts, there are more complexities involved. Even if you are technically inclined, it’s not wise to make assumptions based on exceptions. Kaleidescape would need to hire more tech support representatives to assist clients, which would increase costs. This is why their more expensive Terra Prime model comes with field-replaceable drives, but their entry-level products do not.

 

[gadgetman]

This is why their more expensive Terra Prime model comes with field-replaceable drives, but their entry-level products do not.

The Premiere 3U Servers (K-5000) have field-replaceable drives, as do the original Terra servers (not just Terra Primes).

 

[Substance]

The Premiere 3U Servers (K-5000) have field-replaceable drives, as do the original Terra servers (not just Terra Primes).

Correct, The Premiere line was their high end whereas the Cinema One was the entry level at that time. The Terra Prime is the 2nd generation Terra server. Full size Terra servers are significantly more expensive hence any field replaceable parts complexities with their associated costs are factored into their retail price. This is the point I was trying to make.

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

I would love to get a set of 24TB drives for the 1U server and cut 2U and 8 drives out of my premier server. Sadly, we are capped at 6TB drives for those units. At some point, repairability and upgradeability start seriously limiting revenue on new hardware sales.