NEWS: Strato V Player Announced

[thrillcat]

 

[HarperVision]

@J.Green This is mainly my curiosity, and you may not be able to say, but what Dolby Vision profile are you guys using in the store? Is it similar to UHD Blu-ray's Profile 7, that has an HDR10 base layer with either a Minimum- or Full- Enhancement layer, which can produce either a 10-bit (MEL) or 12-bit (FEL) Dolby Vision video signal, or revert to the base layer for HDR10 only displays? Or is it more similar to the single layer profile 5 used on streaming services (just obviously at a much higher bitrate) that produces only 10-bit video, and then a conversion is done when displayed on an HDR10 only display?

I'm kinda guessing it's the latter (high bitrate profile 5 downloads), given I believe it was mentioned elsewhere, that while the Strato V can display Dolby Vision files on HDR10 displays, the Strato C cannot, so a mixed player system with both Strato Cs and Vs would need two downloads for a given movie

Probably DV Profile 8 which is HDR10 backwards compatible.

 

[Balthazar2k4]

They are using Profile 5 to get the closest equivalent to Profile 7 FEL. Profile 8 does not allow for that and only marries the RPU with the HDR10 base layer. It is a compromise they were not willing to make.

 

[HarperVision]

True forgot about that. Are any streaming services/online media stores using Profile 8.1 currently? If not, I have a feeling the actual reason is probably that Kaleidescape is getting the same mezzanine files as iTunes/Vudu/etc, and those are Profile 5, and they probably don't want to transcode across profiles.

It’s very easy to convert from profile 5 to 8 though. There’s a simple script folks use on their Macs or PCs to do it for playback on their AppleTVs with the Infuse app.

 

[HarperVision]

Totally fair question. The answer is that Profile 7 (which would allow playing the HDR10 base layer) is not well-supported (or supported at all) by current system-on-chip designs. We obviously have to select a chip based on many factors, including performance, other necessary features, and so on, and there wasn't an option that met our needs that supported Profile 7. Profile 8 would have been a quality compromise, so that wasn't a good choice. Profile 5 delivers comparable quality to Profile 7 but with the limitation that there is not a backward-compatible base layer.

First I’ve heard that Profile 5 had better quality than 8.1. I’ve converted tons of ripped DV movies and haven’t noticed a lick of difference, and I look very closely for these things.

 

[Balthazar2k4]

It’s very easy to convert from profile 5 to 8 though. There’s a simple script folks use on their Macs or PCs to do it for playback on their AppleTVs with the Infuse app.

It is indeed. However, you can 'lose' information during the conversion (ICtCp->YCbCr) and RPU issues can crop up because of a mismatch to the HDR10 BL.

Additionally, there may be licensing issues with Dolby on the use of Profile 8 in this manner. I believe it is partly why Profile 7 struggles to exist beyond UHD BD players.

 

[HarperVision]

The last line of the entry is correct. A Strato V connected to display that only supports HDR10 will convert the a Dolby Vision title to HDR10 for playback.

One only needs to download a separate HDR10 version of a movie if they have a zone with a Strato or Strato C player since those players cannot play DV content.

Is it by just adding HDR10 metadata to the LLDV stream so that the display believes it is HDR10? This is how LLDV works with HDFury so that’s why I ask.

 

[cinelife]

I've clicked on all the links and watched a couple of youtube videos but I haven't seen an answer. How long is the warranty of the Strato V?

5 years

Jim

 

[J.Green]

Is there any way to see this report based on all your purchased titles, and not just what is currently downloaded to the system? The wording in the report makes it sound like it's only listing titles that are currently downloaded on your system, not all the titles you own.

Not currently. We're working on an update that will allow you to run the report for all purchased movies rather than just the content that is currently downloaded but it's not ready for release just yet.

 

[MikeKobb]

Is it just a matter of time before all titles are converted? Or, is it possible that some titles will never be converted?

I’m also curious about the technical reason for this, but I understand if you can’t say. I’m wondering if it’s related to titles originally sourced from Blu-ray Disc vs mezzanine files.

We're anticipating that the vast majority of titles will be able to be updated, and this work is ongoing, with tranches of titles being added regularly. It is possible that a small number of titles may not be able to be updated.

As an example, one of the possible reasons for a title to be incompatible with Strato V would be if it is using the VC-1 codec, which the new chip in the Strato V does not support. For most of those titles, we'll be able to source mezzanine files that we can encode appropriately, and we'll do that, starting with the most popular titles. If we can't get access to a mezzanine file, then that title may not be able to be updated. We did look at possibly transcoding those files, but we don't think the attendant loss in quality is acceptable.

Another thing that I think will be important for some customers to consider is that in some cases, the updated HD versions of titles don't currently have extras, where the original version did. So if the extras are important to you, you may want to double-check before you update the HD version of a movie to ensure that there are still extras available. We are working to re-add those extras as part of this process, but ensuring that the movies themselves were available was given priority over handling the extras.

 

[KDeering]

Something else of note. The profile that K is using for Dolby Vision DOES NOT support HDR10 playback from that file. So if you have a Strato V for say a flat panel with DV support and a Strato in another room for a projector, you would need to download two different versions of the movie if you wanted to preserve Dolby Vision playback for one and HDR10 for the other. This also means that titles that have gotten Dolby Atmos for the DV version (Transformers for example) will not be compatible with a theater system using a projector, even if you have the V player.

 

[Balthazar2k4]

Think the only real players in the SOC game that offer any kind of BD support are AMLogic and Realtek. Though most players that support BD ISO playback (which is the closest equivalent) end up writing a lot of the codebase themselves and it is a monstrous task to support.

 

[Balthazar2k4]

Something else of note. The profile that K is using for Dolby Vision DOES NOT support HDR10 playback from that file. So if you have a Strato V for say a flat panel with DV support and a Strato in another room for a projector, you would need to download two different versions of the movie if you wanted to preserve Dolby Vision playback for one and HDR10 for the other. This also means that titles that have gotten Dolby Atmos for the DV version (Transformers for example) will not be compatible with a theater system using a projector, even if you have the V player.

Hi Kris, I am pretty sure that the V can convert DV to HDR10 compatible output. The problem is with legacy players inability to play the same files.

 

[KDeering]

Hi Kris, I am pretty sure that the V can convert DV to HDR10 compatible output. The problem is with legacy players inability to play the same files.

 

[David23]

Another thing that I think will be important for some customers to consider is that in some cases, the updated HD versions of titles don't currently have extras, where the original version did. So if the extras are important to you, you may want to double-check before you update the HD version of a movie to ensure that there are still extras available. We are working to re-add those extras as part of this process, but ensuring that the movies themselves were available was given priority over handling the extras.

Wow, that's a big undertaking. As long as all the extras are eventually there! Please add some new extras while you're at it

 

[steelman1991]

Something else of note. The profile that K is using for Dolby Vision DOES NOT support HDR10 playback from that file. So if you have a Strato V for say a flat panel with DV support and a Strato in another room for a projector, you would need to download two different versions of the movie if you wanted to preserve Dolby Vision playback for one and HDR10 for the other. This also means that titles that have gotten Dolby Atmos for the DV version (Transformers for example) will not be compatible with a theater system using a projector, even if you have the V player.

Amazing how the "devil is always in the detail". That's an absolute bummer for me. Maybe those titles will get upgrades to the HDR10 versions too.

 

[MikeKobb]

Something else of note. The profile that K is using for Dolby Vision DOES NOT support HDR10 playback from that file. So if you have a Strato V for say a flat panel with DV support and a Strato in another room for a projector, you would need to download two different versions of the movie if you wanted to preserve Dolby Vision playback for one and HDR10 for the other. This also means that titles that have gotten Dolby Atmos for the DV version (Transformers for example) will not be compatible with a theater system using a projector, even if you have the V player.

To clarify:

The Dolby Vision format being used for Strato V is what's called Dolby Vision Profile 5. This format is not compatible with earlier Strato players. So if you have, as Kris describes, a mix of Strato V and Strato/Strato C zones, you would potentially want to download both 4K Dolby Vision and 4K HDR10 versions of the movie. See my post here for why this is the case: NEWS: - Strato V Player Announced

However: Strato V can play Dolby Vision files on HDR10 displays if needed.

 

[mariyoshikong]

This also means that titles that have gotten Dolby Atmos for the DV version (Transformers for example) will not be compatible with a theater system using a projector, even if you have the V player.

I didn’t even catch that the Atmos track was only on the Dolby Vision version. Hopefully they can add these to the HDR10 version at some point in the future.

 

[ZeroDarkFuga]

Is there a Strato V manual with recommended player settings posted online yet, and/or one that will be included?

I am trying to ascertain the Dolby standard vs LLDV options without going down a rabbit hole….I have a Sony A95L so assume this would be either automatic or standard but it gets hairy when I introduce my MadVR MK2 in the mix for a variety of reasons re: LLDV and inability to dynamic tone map HDR due to Sony locking their proprietary settings and not using a gamma based picture curve for tone mapping etc….

 

[mariyoshikong]

Let me briefly address this.

"just come out with another Disc Vault" suggests that such an undertaking would be a relatively easy process. Let me assure you that it is far from it.

First and foremost, you need to be able to actually play the content that is stored on those optical discs. In the case of Blu-ray in particular, this is an enormous task. The Blu-ray spec is thousands of pages, incredibly complex, and requires extensive software development effort and support from the vendor of the SOC (System-on-Chip) in the new product. Given the current trajectory of media consumption, SOC vendors don't have this support available, and are not interested in adding it. You might be able to find a vendor who would do the work to add the necessary support on an NRE basis (i.e., you pay them under contract), but that would be a huge investment of money that would have to be recovered through sales of the product into a dwindling market for physical media.

Oh, and by the way, you would also need the appropriate optical drives that could go into such a product. Again, given the trajectory of the optical disc market, sourcing such drives to support a new product is likely impossible.

I hope this adds a bit of perspective.

I appreciate the detailed response you have gvien on this one. Even though this is probably not the answer most of us wanted to hear, it does help put things into perspective.