NEWS: Strato V Player Announced

[J.Green]

@J.Green This is mainly my curiosity, and you may not be able to say, but what Dolby Vision profile are you guys using in the store? Is it similar to UHD Blu-ray's Profile 7, that has an HDR10 base layer with either a Minimum- or Full- Enhancement layer, which can produce either a 10-bit (MEL) or 12-bit (FEL) Dolby Vision video signal, or revert to the base layer for HDR10 only displays? Or is it more similar to the single layer profile 5 used on streaming services (just obviously at a much higher bitrate) that produces only 10-bit video, and then a conversion is done when displayed on an HDR10 only display?

I'm kinda guessing it's the latter (high bitrate profile 5 downloads), given I believe it was mentioned elsewhere, that while the Strato V can display Dolby Vision files on HDR10 displays, the Strato C cannot, so a mixed player system with both Strato Cs and Vs would need two downloads for a given movie

We don't use profile 7, we use profile 5. Profile 5 is encoded as 10-bit video, but it is encoded in the ICtCp colourspace rather than the YUV colourspace. During processing the 10-bit ICpCt video is converted back into 12=bit YUV. This is the newer Dolby technique to address banding.

 

[Balthazar2k4]

Ah! Apologies for the misunderstanding.

Yes. In a mixed system (Strato C and Strato V), the Strato C will only be able to play 4K SDR and 4K HDR10. The Strato V can play all three (4K SDR, 4K HDR10, and 4K Dolby Vision). So you have the following options:

• Download both an HDR10 and a Dolby Vision version of the movie so that each player plays the highest quality they support; or,
• Download just the HDR10 version and let the Strato V play it either as HDR10 or convert it to a Dolby Vision-compatible output depending on how you have the Strato V's video settings configured.

Whoa...whoa...whoa... so are you saying that in an environment where I have a C and V player I would need to download two different copies of the film to get HDR10 and DV respectively? That's insane. What DV profile is being used here?!

 

[JWort93]

We don't use profile 7, we use profile 5. Profile 5 is encoded as 10-bit video, but it is encoded in the ICtCp colourspace rather than the YUV colourspace. During processing the 10-bit ICpCt video is converted back into 12=bit YUV. This is the newer Dolby technique to address banding.

Yep, makes sense, that's what I expected, thanks for the confirmation!

 

[thrillcat]

Great addition to the kaleidescape family.

Strange that the V doesn’t (currently?) support CEC. I’d think that’s really important to a new-to-kaleidescape user with this standalone, likely sitting next to an AppleTV on a system. Will be a bummer that it doesn’t switch AV inputs on the controller/receiver automatically for this type of user so now they need multiple remotes and/or more advanced programming of their system.

Also begs the question if this comes with the kaleidescape remote control? Sorry if I missed that in the materials.

Datasheet indicates it includes remote

 

[ZeroDarkFuga]

@J.Green , has the team already sent Strato V codes to the harmony support team for addition? Or would it use same as Strato C and not needed?

 

[MikeKobb]

Whoa...whoa...whoa... so are you saying that in an environment where I have a C and V player I would need to download two different copies of the film to get HDR10 and DV respectively?

That's correct. They are two different formats. Strato V can play HDR10 as well, obviously, so you could just download the 4K HDR10 and it would work for both players. But if you want the Dolby Vision encoding for Strato V, you have to download that one as well.

 

[MikeKobb]

@J.Green , has the team already sent Strato V codes to the harmony support team for addition? Or would it use same as Strato C and not needed?

They are the same. Note that if the player is in standalone, some commands aren't supported and are ignored. For example, a command to go to the Movie Covers place would just be ignored since there's no covers place when the player is in standalone.

There will be an updated Control4 driver at some point mostly to address the connection binding differences (i.e., no audio-only HDM port), but you can use the Strato C driver with it without any problem.

 

[ZeroDarkFuga]

They are the same. Note that if the player is in standalone, some commands aren't supported and are ignored. For example, a command to go to the Movie Covers place would just be ignored since there's no covers place when the player is in standalone.

There will be an updated Control4 driver at some point mostly to address the connection binding differences (i.e., no audio-only HDM port), but you can use the Strato C driver with it without any problem.

Thanks for the quick response and confirmation @MikeKobb !

 

[MikeKobb]

So you're saying the display will like my LG G3 with Dolby Vision will upconvert an HDR10 title to output as Dolby Vision? I believe I'm misunderstanding. Sorry for the 20 questions.

Let me clarify this a little bit. The Strato V can't add information that's not there. If you play an HDR10 title on Strato V while you're connected to a Dolby Vision display, the Strato V can output that movie in Dolby Vision format so that the display doesn't have to switch modes. However, because the file doesn't have the Dolby Vision metadata, you won't see the same image that you would see if you played an actual Dolby Vision movie.

 

[Balthazar2k4]

That's correct. They are two different formats. Strato V can play HDR10 as well, obviously, so you could just download the 4K HDR10 and it would work for both players. But if you want the Dolby Vision encoding for Strato V, you have to download that one as well.

I have to ask... why wasn't a profile that supports the HDR10 base layer used? Seems crazy to have to store two different versions of the same film or accept a quality loss in mixed player environments.

 

[MikeKobb]

Hey all, a quick note for those of you wanting to check out which movies are available today in Dolby Vision. If you go to the store website, you can pull up the All Movies view and use the Video filter to select Dolby Vision. If you're interested in a specific movie, just open its details. There's a new Dolby Vision badge that will show up after the 4K badge if the movie is available in the Dolby Vision format.



This is not yet supported on the mobile applications but will be shortly -- both iOS and Android are in final QA now and should be released in the next few days.

 

[StanfieldNC]

I have to ask... why wasn't a profile that supports the HDR10 base layer used? Seems crazy to have to store two different versions of the same film or accept a quality loss in mixed player environments.

If this is truly possible, I share the same curiosity.

 

[StanfieldNC]

Hey all, a quick note for those of you wanting to check out which movies are available today in Dolby Vision. If you go to the store website, you can pull up the All Movies view and use the Video filter to select Dolby Vision. If you're interested in a specific movie, just open its details. There's a new Dolby Vision badge that will show up after the 4K badge if the movie is available in the Dolby Vision format.

View attachment 5252

This is not yet supported on the mobile applications but will be shortly -- both iOS and Android are in final QA now and should be released in the next few days.

Will audio format sorting be available too?

 

[Balthazar2k4]

If this is truly possible, I share the same curiosity.

It is possible. Profile 7 and 8 offer compatibility.

 

[JWort93]

I have to ask... why wasn't a profile that supports the HDR10 base layer used? Seems crazy to have to store two different versions of the same film or accept a quality loss in mixed player environments.

My guess is this comes down to Dolby, unfortunately. As far as I'm aware, the only profile that supports such a thing is Profile 7, but Dolby hasn't officially approved that for any devices other than blu-ray players. No streaming devices previously released natively supported it, because it requires dual HEVC decoders, which for a while didn't exist except for in chips designed for blu-ray players. Nowadays there are some chips meant for streaming/media player devices that do have multiple HEVC decoders, but Dolby hasn't added official support for the dual-layer profile 7 to their SDK for such chips yet, and never really had a need to, because prior to now the only real use case for such a thing was for people ripping their UHD blu-rays for playback on such devices. There didn't really exist a "legitimate" need for that capability until now.

Now theoretically, Kaleidescape might be able to convince Dolby to add Profile 7 support to their SDK for the chipset Kaleidescape is using, assuming the chipset they are using has multiple HEVC decoders (it most likely does), but I have a feeling that probably that probably won't happen.

 

[Balthazar2k4]

My guess is this comes down to Dolby, unfortunately. As far as I'm aware, the only profile that supports such a thing is Profile 7, but Dolby hasn't officially approved that for any devices other than blu-ray players. No streaming devices previously released natively supported it, because it requires dual HEVC decoders, which for a while didn't exist except for in chips designed for blu-ray players. Nowadays there are some chips meant for streaming/media player devices that do have multiple HEVC decoders, but Dolby hasn't added official support for dual-layer profile 7 to their SDK for such chips yet, and never really had a need to, because prior to now the only real use case for such a thing was for people ripping their UHD blu-rays for playback on such devices. There didn't really exist a "legitimate" need for that capability until now.

Now theoretically, Kaleidescape might be able to convince Dolby to add Profile 7 support to their SDK for the chipset Kaleidescape is using, assuming the chipset they are using has multiple HEVC decoders (it most likely does), but I have a feeling that probably that probably won't happen.

Profile 8.1 can maintain HDR10 compatibility as well.

 

[JWort93]

Profile 8.1 can maintain HDR10 compatibility as well.

True forgot about that. Are any streaming services/online media stores using Profile 8.1 currently? If not, I have a feeling the actual reason is probably that Kaleidescape is getting the same mezzanine files as iTunes/Vudu/etc, and those are Profile 5, and they probably don't want to transcode across profiles.

 

[Balthazar2k4]

True forgot about that. Are any streaming services/online media stores using Profile 8.1, currently? If not, I have a feeling the actual reason, is probably that Kaleidescape is getting the same mezzanine files as iTunes/Vudu/etc, and those are Profile 5, and they probably don't want to transcode across profiles.

Ummm, not really sure. I know Max offers DV/HDR10 compatible files that I assume are 8.1. The catch with 8.1 is that you are only getting RPU data with the HDR10 base layer. It isn't FEL (12-bit) DV like Profile 7 is capable of. That said, I am unsure if Profile 5 is capable of a full FEL equivalent, but might be since it doesn't have to drag HDR10 along for the ride.

 

[LoveCinema]

I think we need clarity of this item from the FAQ:

DO I NEED TO DOWNLOAD SPECIAL VERSIONS OF A TITLE TO SEE DOLBY VISION?​

Yes. To take full advantage of Strato V’s Dolby Vision playback capabilities, a Dolby Vision version of the movie must be downloaded to the system. In almost all cases, at time of purchase, the Kaleidescape store will automatically detect your Strato V player and download the correct Dolby Vision version.
When configured to minimize display mode changes, Strato V will convert HDR10 content to Dolby Vision format for playback on a Dolby Vision display.

If a Strato V player is connected to a display that only supports HDR10, then the player will play back in HDR10 on that display.
——-

To me, the above infers that a Strato V, when connected to an HDR only display, can play the DV file in HDR. If this is not the case, then that last line really needs to incorporate a reference to an additional download.

 

[MikeKobb]

I have to ask... why wasn't a profile that supports the HDR10 base layer used? Seems crazy to have to store two different versions of the same film or accept a quality loss in mixed player environments.

Totally fair question. The answer is that Profile 7 (which would allow playing the HDR10 base layer) is not well-supported (or supported at all) by current system-on-chip designs. We obviously have to select a chip based on many factors, including performance, other necessary features, and so on, and there wasn't an option that met our needs that supported Profile 7. Profile 8 would have been a quality compromise, so that wasn't a good choice. Profile 5 delivers comparable quality to Profile 7 but with the limitation that there is not a backward-compatible base layer.