NEWS: Strato K Movie Player with 8K capability and new "4K Cinematic" full-chroma & higher bitrate support

[artur9]

Nothing that we're prepared to announce. What trick-play features would you specifically want? Anything besides slow-motion and frame advance?

One more: A-B loop. A scene can sort of do this, I think, but is more work.

 

[J.Green]

@MikeKobb Another useful feature would be to be able to remotely read the temps, or have email/SNMP alerts generated if out of spec. I've don't think I've missed that anywhere, but it seems odd to report the temps and include visible green/amber/read areas but have no way of monitoring them.

This already happens. If a component in your Kaleidescape system is too hot or too cold, multiple notifications will occur:
* a popup message box will be displayed on the OSD of every player in the system
* a mobile notification will be pushed to the Kaleidescape mobile app (assuming you have it installed and have not disabled notifications)
* emails and notifications are sent both to the system's owner and the dealer of record.

 

[cyberkryten]

This already happens. If a component in your Kaleidescape system is too hot or too cold, multiple notifications will occur:
* a popup message box will be displayed on the OSD of every player in the system
* a mobile notification will be pushed to the Kaleidescape mobile app (assuming you have it installed and have not disabled notifications)
* emails and notifications are sent both to the system's owner and the dealer of record.

Good to know, thanks J - I thought it was odd if nothing happened, but I'd not seen it stated anywhere all those notifications get fired (and thankfully everything is within the green so I've not tested it).

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Finally managed to actually do some comparisons. New subs are up and running so I’m now up to 7.6.4, two stacks of M&K X12’s up front and two X15+’s in the rear. All I can say is I don’t know how people can handle even more. When I started pushing the volume up on frequency sweeps the screen was shaking from the bass waves once it started going over 115dB, so fair to say I won’t be adding anymore audio equipment!

Anyway onto the comparisons, watched My Neighbour is Totoro in HD which looked great and no random audio dropouts which I appeared to have resolved with my V but always a worry. That opened up some space to download Turtle Odyssey in 4KC HDR as I already had the HDR and SDR versions pre-installed on my Terra.

I hadn’t compared SDR to HDR with DTM before now so my thoughts on that were the Lumagen doing DTM is very similar the a pre-made SDR encode, some minor differences here and there but overall maintains the intended look. I did however notice the difference in certain colours where the SDR in Rec709 looked more muted compared to having WCG/P3/Rec2020. My Lumagen and JVC have been calibrated for both with the filter on to cover the full gamut of both gamuts so it’s not a case of different settings, the green of the trees in the opening in particular and the hues in the see are noticeably more vibrant in HDR.

Now onto the 4KC vs 4K, I went back and forth a number of times over the hour in the opening, focusing only on one thing. In this film at least I couldn’t personally see any difference watching in motion from my seating distance (3.6m from 145” 16:9 and I have 20/15 vision) and didn’t try pausing and getting up close. Sharpness looked identical, motion identical, colours identical, I thought there was maybe a difference in brightness but that was entirely down to whether or not the point I switched I was looking at something brighter or darker skewing my memory.

My Lumagen also downscales 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 and even if I was going direct to the JVC it also does it DTM processing in 4:2:2 so the only option to would be 4:4:4 SDR but I think the loss of the WCG means direct comparison would impossible.

Will need to check out some more films but first video comparison, I can’t see a difference. The UI at least I am appreciating more the lack of scaling artifacts, it does make it look nicer, whereas before although I was used to it as my Zidoo Z1000 Pro and Firestick 4K Max also upscale 1080p rendered UI’s to 4K I did notice them on some posters.

 

[Oldred]

Hi, I doubt there is a simple answer to this question but I followed this thread closely on announcement and due to the wide set of differing opinions I thought I would let things settle down before pursuing a purchase of K player.

Probably worth summarising the relevant bits of the current cinema room system.

Kaleidescape - 2 Compact Terra servers (12Tb and 22Tb) - a Strato C player
Sony laser projector SONY vpl VW760ES that we will look to replace over the next 12 months
MadVR Pro HDMI 2.0 video processor - which we will also revisit alongside projector purchase
Storm processor etc etc for audio
Various sources - Apple TV, Fire TV, Blu ray player - not used since Kaleidescape installed, input from House-wide distribution of CCTV/APPLE TV/EETV Player/PC/ Games machine
All used at some point in time but dominated by Kaleidescape movies, less frequent ATV and FTV. Games machine once ins a blue moon

So the question is that if all we did right now is swap the C player out for a new K Player, would we get any material benefits? Or would that be a waste and better to wait until the projector swap.

We would likely put the C player in the Lounge alongside a Sony KD-75ZD9BU

The Laser projector and TV we bought when they were newly released by Sony and well regarded. We have always liked Sonly TVs etc, Both have been great so far but probably 'owe us nothing now'. The MadVR and Storm processor were upgrades etc.


So what does the hive mind think now. I have tried to see if there is a consensus but I get the impression that the kit you put with it is a major factor. So what do you know/think ??? Go for it now, wait and what benefits should we see?

Right just off to rob a bank.........

 

[JonProphet]

@Oldred Do you watch DV and/or HDR+ content on the projector? If so, go with the K. I'm not super familiar with the compatibility and tone mapping capabilities of your projector. My VW350ES (bulb) doesn't support HDR so I'm not the ideal candidate for the K. I do standard HDR files but I'm ugprading to the JVC NZ500 this weekend. I'm still not getting a K but I'll be re-downloading all my content in HDR.

Personally, if you have a solid laser projector that hasn't had any issues, no contrast degradation, no dimming on the laser. Run that thing until it dies. I think we are about to see some new stuff coming down the line in the next couple of years. Its your money, you do you.

Keep in mind, do your research and feedback on the Cinematic content. Most like it, some don't.

Also, I found this article last few days and didn't finish reading it. I just did. Very applicable to your question.

Kaleidescape Strato K and 4K Cinematic: What We Know, What We’ve Seen, and How to Get the Best Results

When Kaleidescape introduced the new Strato K and its 4K Cinematic format, the company promoted substantially higher video bitrates, chroma sampling up to 4:4:4, and a new level of video performance for the home. Kaleidescape currently states that 4K Cinematic files average approximately 110...

www.thescreeningroomav.com

 

[DrNeal]

You didn’t mention what kind and size of screen?

I recently upgraded to the Sony Bravia 8 projector, my third Sony. That made the most impact and difference, was a big improvement.
I just moved the Strato C to the bedroom and added a K for the theater.
Another big improvement. From a brighter movie wall to many 4KC movies.
You can’t go wrong with either decision you make.
It’s only money

 

[J.Green]

So the question is that if all we did right now is swap the C player out for a new K Player, would we get any material benefits? Or would that be a waste and better to wait until the projector swap.

We would likely put the C player in the Lounge alongside a Sony KD-75ZD9BU

Since you say you are likely to keep the Strato C and deploy it to a new zone, it's worth considering the following:

• Strato C can only play 4K SDR and 4K HDR10 titles not Dolby Vision. So you will need to stick with HDR10 and SDR titles if you want to be able to play the same movie in both zones. Or you would have to download two versions of the movie essentially cutting your storage space in half.
• Similarly, only the Strato K is able to play 4K Cinematic content. Your Strato C can't. So again, you're faced with having to download two versions of the movie or opt for the "regular" 4K.

If you were simply replacing your Strato C with a Strato K, then I'd heartily recommend the upgrade. But since there's a chance you'll keep your Strato C, then it's a tougher call. Are you willing to live with either only being able to watch certain content in your theatre zone because it's the zone with 4K Cinematic support OR reducing your available space for movie downloads because you're downloading two copies of most movies in order to support the Strato C?

 

[DrNeal]

I did this. I mainly watch movies in the theater via the K.
However, now that I have the C in the bedroom, I mainly watch 4k HDR10 and even HD movies there.
Although I have just a few of the same movie in 2 different versions, for watching in both places.
It is very easy to delete a movie and download one. 4KC movies download in an average of 15 minutes, all the rest much less time.
With his 2 servers, there should be enough room to accommodate a number of movies.

 

[Naiera]

@Oldred Do you watch DV and/or HDR+ content on the projector? If so, go with the K. I'm not super familiar with the compatibility and tone mapping capabilities of your projector.

I sincerely hope he's using his very expensive MadVR for dynamic tone mapping.

 

[JonProphet]

I sincerely hope he's using his very expensive MadVR for dynamic tone mapping.

He says:

“MadVR Pro HDMI 2.0 video processor - which we will also revisit alongside projector purchase”

Personally, I don’t understand the use of these things. I get doing screen corrections for bad alignment or anamorphic lenses but do they really do that good of a job tone mapping over a well calibrated projector?

 

[thrillcat]

do they really do that good of a job tone mapping over a well calibrated projector?

Yes.

 

[madFloyd]

He says:

“MadVR Pro HDMI 2.0 video processor - which we will also revisit alongside projector purchase”

Personally, I don’t understand the use of these things. I get doing screen corrections for bad alignment or anamorphic lenses but do they really do that good of a job tone mapping over a well calibrated projector?

Projector calibration has nothing to do with its dynamic tone mapping (DTM) algorithms.

JVCs have built in DTM and while they're OK, they are inferior compared to Lumagen and MadVR.

 

[OUTATIME]

He says:

“MadVR Pro HDMI 2.0 video processor - which we will also revisit alongside projector purchase”

Personally, I don’t understand the use of these things. I get doing screen corrections for bad alignment or anamorphic lenses but do they really do that good of a job tone mapping over a well calibrated projector?

I consider a video processor a must for a projector setup. Not only is the HDR tone mapping much better than letting a projector do it but they provide quality of life improvements such as aspect ratio detection so you aren't having to use lens memories on your projector and deal with that.

If you don't use HDR and you have a 16:9 screen then maybe you can skip the video processor.

 

[JonProphet]

Projector calibration has nothing to do with its dynamic tone mapping (DTM) algorithms.

JVCs have built in DTM and while they're OK, they are inferior compared to Lumagen and MadVR.

I get that the technology fools with the DV and HDR meta data but if the projector can’t reliably produce hdr or DV colors????? What’s the point? So you spend $10K to $50K on a projector, then another $8K on someone’s proprietary tone mapping controls?

I know this is getting off topic here.

I’m getting ready to step into a new JVC, so I’ll be getting into HDR more. I have a non-calibrated older Bravia that supports DV. To each his own.

 

[madFloyd]

I get that the technology fools with the DV and HDR meta data but if the projector can’t reliably produce hdr or DV colors????? What’s the point? So you spend $10K to $50K on a projector, then another $8K on someone’s proprietary tone mapping controls?

I know this is getting off topic here.

If the projector isn't properly calibrated, then of course all bets are off - DTM can't supersede that.

But yes, these days if you want top tier home theater projection, you're looking at the projector AND a processor.

 

[JonProphet]

If the projector isn't properly calibrated, then of course all bets are off - DTM can't supersede that.

But yes, these days if you want top tier home theater projection, you're looking at the projector AND a processor.

Copy that. I get it. I’d have to see AB comparison to see the value. I’m not a big fan of HDR or DV atm.

 

[OUTATIME]

Copy that. I get it. I’d have to see AB comparison to see the value. I’m not a big fan of HDR or DV atm.

You must have a 16:9 screen? With a scope screen instant aspect ratio detection is a must for me. My projector even has aspect ratio detection, but it isn't quite instant as it doesn't add latency to look ahead...so I use MadVR.

 

[thrillcat]

I’m not a big fan of HDR or DV atm.

Could that be because your projector does not have any dynamic tone mapping capability?

Projectors in general, except for those costing more than a Lexus, can't hit the level of nits required for true HDR, therefore dynamic tone mapping is applied. The quality of that algorithm and the ability to custom tailor it for your specific installation play a huge part of the perceived quality of the DTM. DTM has to take 1000 nits or whatever the content is mastered at, and map all those points along the scale into 100 nits, or whatever your specific system is capable of and calibrated to.

The JVCs are largely thought to have the best in-projector DTM capability, but even then, the settings are minimal - on/off, auto/low/mid/high, and entering screen information is pretty much all you get.

A Lumagen or MadVR allows your calibrator to dial in the DTM settings to a much more granular degree, accounting for many variables that you just don't get with low/medium/high. This is on top of the ability to more precisely add a calibration to the projector as well.

 

[OUTATIME]

Could that be because your projector does not have any dynamic tone mapping capability?

Projectors in general, except for those costing more than a Lexus, can't hit the level of nits required for true HDR, therefore dynamic tone mapping is applied. The quality of that algorithm and the ability to custom tailor it for your specific installation play a huge part of the perceived quality of the DTM. DTM has to take 1000 nits or whatever the content is mastered at, and map all those points along the scale into 100 nits, or whatever your specific system is capable of and calibrated to.

The JVCs are largely thought to have the best in-projector DTM capability, but even then, the settings are minimal - on/off, auto/low/mid/high, and entering screen information is pretty much all you get.

A Lumagen or MadVR allows your calibrator to dial in the DTM settings to a much more granular degree, accounting for many variables that you just don't get with low/medium/high. This is on top of the ability to more precisely add a calibration to the projector as well.

That is another good point on the calibration of the projector. You need a video processor to do a 3D LUT calibration to get the best color accuracy.