Strato C Blackouts

[cinelife]

I've had success in several client systems by adding this Ethereal HDM-AI02, but not sure if it will solve your problems. Unfortunately the only way to know for sure with any of these devices is to try it. I'm sure your dealer has access to these as well. The link has a lot of info, and some discussion videos, so you can decide if it's worth a try.

HDMI(R) ALL-IN-ONE TOOL GEN2, 8K

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Jim

 

[Kevin D]

I have an extremely complicated video chain (nothing I would ever sell to a client) and the AIO solved my problems. I'm actually having to use the relay controlled Hot Plug Swap terminals as well.

Kevin D.

 

[DLCPhoto]

I've had success in several client systems by adding this Ethereal HDM-AI02, but not sure if it will solve your problems. Unfortunately the only way to know for sure with any of these devices is to try it. I'm sure your dealer has access to these as well. The link has a lot of info, and some discussion videos, so you can decide if it's worth a try.

HDMI(R) ALL-IN-ONE TOOL GEN2, 8K

Cutting-edge technology in an all-in-one HDMI® tool. Instantly fix most common HDMI® problems in home theater install projects. Quick, easy, and efficient.

metrahometheater.com

Jim

Very interesting, Jim. If the AVProEdge splitter doesn't get me going, I'll have to consider this. I'll be learning about it regardless, as it does look like an interesting tool!

 

[DLCPhoto]

Hopefully a final update here:

The AVProEdge splitter ((AC-DA12-AUHD-GEN2) was installed on Saturday, and after initial 1 hour of testing with clips that usually trigger problems, with 4 movies seen since then, there hasn't been a single audio or video dropout. Hopefully I'm not 'jinxing' it by saying this, but it seems like things are good now.

I still have no idea why the Strato C and Arcam AV41 (at least my units, in my theater) wouldn't work well together, but this work-around is viable, and easy enough to implement.

 

[SJHT]

Hopefully a final update here:

The AVProEdge splitter ((AC-DA12-AUHD-GEN2) was installed on Saturday, and after initial 1 hour of testing with clips that usually trigger problems, with 4 movies seen since then, there hasn't been a single audio or video dropout. Hopefully I'm not 'jinxing' it by saying this, but it seems like things are good now.

I still have no idea why the Strato C and Arcam AV41 (at least my units, in my theater) wouldn't work well together, but this work-around is viable, and easy enough to implement.

Where are you inserting the splitter and are you using both HDMI outputs? Glad you have fixed the issue!

 

[DLCPhoto]

Where are you inserting the splitter and are you using both HDMI outputs? Glad you have fixed the issue!

Thanks.

I'm using the KScape provided Pixelgen HDMI cable from the Strato C to the single Input on the Splitter, and then a Monoprice UHS Certified 48gbps, 6ft cable, from the HDMI 1 Output on the Splitter to the Arcam input.

So I'm not using the "Splitter" functionality of the AVProEdge device, since it's one in and one out. But it seems that it fixes the problem by acting as a "mediator" of sorts between the two devices. Each devices communicates with the splitter, and not directly with each other.

This might not be the most technically correct interpretation of what is actually going on, but I find it useful to think about it this way.

 

[andy]

What is likely happening is that the HDMI signal is being "reorganized" ... or maybe jumbled is a better word. Basically, all the elements of the HDMI sequence are arriving at your Arcam input in a slightly different order. All the information is still there, but something with the change in the order is enough to make the connection more agreeable, removing the issue you were previously seeing. Not a perfect solution, but I'm glad to hear it's working

Andy

 

[JohnA]

Thanks.

I'm using the KScape provided Pixelgen HDMI cable from the Strato C to the single Input on the Splitter, and then a Monoprice UHS Certified 48gbps, 6ft cable, from the HDMI 1 Output on the Splitter to the Arcam input.

So I'm not using the "Splitter" functionality of the AVProEdge device, since it's one in and one out. But it seems that it fixes the problem by acting as a "mediator" of sorts between the two devices. Each devices communicates with the splitter, and not directly with each other.

This might not be the most technically correct interpretation of what is actually going on, but I find it useful to think about it this way.

Is this solution still working for you? Video dropouts reared their ugly head tonight for the first time in a while. Movie was totally unwatchable. I switched to HDMI 1.4 output on the Strato C which got me through the movie without a dropout.

It's very frustrating to have 75K in the Audio/Video chain and I can't watch a movie because of some stupid signal protection scheme.

 

[DLCPhoto]

Is this solution still working for you? Video dropouts reared their ugly head tonight for the first time in a while. Movie was totally unwatchable. I switched to HDMI 1.4 output on the Strato C which got me through the movie without a dropout.

It's very frustrating to have 75K in the Audio/Video chain and I can't watch a movie because of some stupid signal protection scheme.

It is still working. I'm about a week and a half in, with probably 10+ hours of playing, and it's perfectly stable.

I'm exploring this with Arcam, and my issue might be attributable to an older firmware in my unit. I had resisted updating because of reported Control4 problems, so perhaps this is the reason? I'm waiting to hear back on something from Arcam before doing anything, as the splitter is working fine so far.

What else is in your chain? Any HDMI 2.1 components? Those seem to be the source of many of these problems.

 

[JohnA]

It is still working. I'm about a week and a half in, with probably 10+ hours of playing, and it's perfectly stable.

I'm exploring this with Arcam, and my issue might be attributable to an older firmware in my unit. I had resisted updating because of reported Control4 problems, so perhaps this is the reason? I'm waiting to hear back on something from Arcam before doing anything, as the splitter is working fine so far.

What else is in your chain? Any HDMI 2.1 components? Those seem to be the source of many of these problems.

Although I think this is a HDCP issue, my chain is different than yours.

The video is Strato C --> Lumagen --> Sony Projector (VPL-VW5000ES). The audio, on a separate output to the surround processor does not drop out. Just the video. Had similar issues with a Strato S. The Lumagen is 2.0, not sure on the projector.

I don't have dropouts with ATV --> Lumagen ---> Projector

I'm not saying KScape is the problem, but I didn't have any issues until I added it to the system. I can go multiple movies without a problem, then all of a sudden a movie has numerous video dropouts (handshaking) and the movie becomes unwatchable. Dunno.

 

[DLCPhoto]

Although I think this is a HDCP issue, my chain is different than yours.

The video is Strato C --> Lumagen --> Sony Projector (VPL-VW5000ES). The audio, on a separate output to the surround processor does not drop out. Just the video. Had similar issues with a Strato S. The Lumagen is 2.0, not sure on the projector.

I don't have dropouts with ATV --> Lumagen ---> Projector

I'm not saying KScape is the problem, but I didn't have any issues until I added it to the system. I can go multiple movies without a problem, then all of a sudden a movie has numerous video dropouts (handshaking) and the movie becomes unwatchable. Dunno.

It might be different; very hard to tell. None of your components are HDMI 2.1 (although you didn't specify the audio processor), so that doesn't seem to be an issue.

You might bypass the Lumagen temporarily, to see if that stops the dropouts. That's what pointed the finger at the Arcam in my theater. I assume you're using the Lumagen for Input switching, rather than your audio processor (and what is it, by the way)? You might also try using your audio processor as the switcher, so putting the Lumagen between the audio processor and projector.

And I know what you mean suspecting the KScape - I had been running a UB820, UB420, Roku Ultra and ATV 4K through the exact system setup without any glitches whatsoever. The dropouts only occurred when I added the Strato. That's why I suspected it first. But it turns out it is something "between" the Strato and Arcam - each is fine on their own, but there were problems communicating between them somehow. And in my case audio continued fine during these video blackouts.

HDMI cables are always high on the list as the cause of video dropouts, especially the longer one going to the projector - what is the brand, model, length, active/passive, etc.?

HDMI problems are a bear to track down, and having them sporadic makes it even worse!

 

[JohnA]

It might be different; very hard to tell. None of your components are HDMI 2.1 (although you didn't specify the audio processor), so that doesn't seem to be an issue.

You might bypass the Lumagen temporarily, to see if that stops the dropouts. That's what pointed the finger at the Arcam in my theater. I assume you're using the Lumagen for Input switching, rather than your audio processor (and what is it, by the way)? You might also try using your audio processor as the switcher, so putting the Lumagen between the audio processor and projector.

And I know what you mean suspecting the KScape - I had been running a UB820, UB420, Roku Ultra and ATV 4K through the exact system setup without any glitches whatsoever. The dropouts only occurred when I added the Strato. That's why I suspected it first. But it turns out it is something "between" the Strato and Arcam - each is fine on their own, but there were problems communicating between them somehow. And in my case audio continued fine during these video blackouts.

HDMI cables are always high on the list as the cause of video dropouts, especially the longer one going to the projector - what is the brand, model, length, active/passive, etc.?

HDMI problems are a bear to track down, and having them sporadic makes it even worse!

I have a Trinnov Altitude 16. If you talk to Trinnov, they will tell you to let the Trinnov do the switching. My installer/programmer/calibrator prefers the Lumagen doing the switching. I may try the Trinnov as the switcher. Reprogramming with my Crestron will be a hassle, however. All my equipment is in as separate room.

The Lumagen forum at AVS has been talking about these drop out issues for years. I've tried all the recommended cables. I'm currently using a passive Ruipro fiber optic to the projector. It's 15 feet.

As you said, the sporadic nature of the problem doesn't help.

 

[DLCPhoto]

I have a Trinnov Altitude 16. If you talk to Trinnov, they will tell you to let the Trinnov do the switching. My installer/programmer/calibrator prefers the Lumagen doing the switching. I may try the Trinnov as the switcher. Reprogramming with my Crestron will be a hassle, however. All my equipment is in as separate room.

The Lumagen forum at AVS has been talking about these drop out issues for years. I've tried all the recommended cables. I'm currently using a passive Ruipro fiber optic to the projector. It's 15 feet.

As you said, the sporadic nature of the problem doesn't help.

Thanks for the additional details.

I don't have any experience with the Lumagen, but do follow those discussions to be as knowledgeable as I can. I've seen those reports as well, which is why I suggested temporarily bypassing it to see if that solves the problem.

Trinnov's with the HDMI 2.1 boards have known issues with HDMI stability and banding. There are 2 separate HDMI 2.1 Board firmware updates that the last I heard required Trinnov personnel to perform manually. Since the Trinnov is apparently not in the video chain, you wouldn't think that would matter, but in the crazy world of HDMI, I'll never say never. So you might check in with Trinnov about that.

For a 15 ft length, I would avoid fiberoptic cables on principle. I have successfully used inexpensive Certified Monoprice Cables. I have a 25 ft Ultra High Speed Certified 48 gbps passive cable from them that supports 4k at 120 fps reliably with my Envy Extreme and JVC NZ900. From the sounds of it you have already tried various cables, but thought I'd just throw that in there for whatever it's worth.

The other thing that worked for me, but was impractical, was using both HDMI outputs from the Strato: audio to the Arcam, and video to the Lumagen. No dropouts, but I'd have to swap cables to use other sources besides the Strato. Since you're connected differently, perhaps that might work, if it's found to stabilize the connection.

 

[HTRaleigh]

Thanks for the additional details.

I don't have any experience with the Lumagen, but do follow those discussions to be as knowledgeable as I can. I've seen those reports as well, which is why I suggested temporarily bypassing it to see if that solves the problem.

Trinnov's with the HDMI 2.1 boards have known issues with HDMI stability and banding. There are 2 separate HDMI 2.1 Board firmware updates that the last I heard required Trinnov personnel to perform manually. Since the Trinnov is apparently not in the video chain, you wouldn't think that would matter, but in the crazy world of HDMI, I'll never say never. So you might check in with Trinnov about that.

For a 15 ft length, I would avoid fiberoptic cables on principle. I have successfully used inexpensive Certified Monoprice Cables. I have a 25 ft Ultra High Speed Certified 48 gbps passive cable from them that supports 4k at 120 fps reliably with my Envy Extreme and JVC NZ900. From the sounds of it you have already tried various cables, but thought I'd just throw that in there for whatever it's worth.

The other thing that worked for me, but was impractical, was using both HDMI outputs from the Strato: audio to the Arcam, and video to the Lumagen. No dropouts, but I'd have to swap cables to use other sources besides the Strato. Since you're connected differently, perhaps that might work, if it's found to stabilize the connection.

Is the AVProEdge still working for you? I’m having video dropouts in my Strato C > Trinnov> Lumagen> RS4200. Audio does not drop out when the video drops.

Using Trinnov as switcher. It has HDMI 2.1 board but I’ve changed it to 2.0 in settings, I’m using Tributaries 3m cable from Strato to Trinnov and same to Lumagen. Using 15m Bullet Train to projector.

Video dropouts may start right away or a few minutes into the movie. Duration is 1 to 5 seconds and there may be several in a row. Each time this happens I manually shut off all components and start back with projector to Lumagen to Trinnov to Strato. This usually works but not always.

 

[DLCPhoto]

Is the AVProEdge still working for you? I’m having video dropouts in my Strato C > Trinnov> Lumagen> RS4200. Audio does not drop out when the video drops.

Using Trinnov as switcher. It has HDMI 2.1 board but I’ve changed it to 2.0 in settings, I’m using Tributaries 3m cable from Strato to Trinnov and same to Lumagen. Using 15m Bullet Train to projector.

Video dropouts may start right away or a few minutes into the movie. Duration is 1 to 5 seconds and there may be several in a row. Each time this happens I manually shut off all components and start back with projector to Lumagen to Trinnov to Strato. This usually works but not always.

I eventually updated the firmware on my Arcam AV41, which 100% solved my problem, and I was able to remove the AVProEdge device. It was a pain, because it also involved a factory reset, which wiped the Dirac Live calibration (done professionally by ChadB), along with presenting problems reloading things. But once done, I haven't had a single dropout.

Sorry you're having problems. The first suspect is the Trinnov, if they haven't manually applied the firmware update for the HDMI 2.1 boards. I'm guessing that whatever that fixes is still causing issues, even though you have it set to only use HDMI 2.0 functionality. I don't know if things have changed, but the last I heard, this is not something the end-user can do, and required their direct involvement (or potentially the Dealer).

While the HDMI cables you're using *should* work fine, the cable it always a suspect with any HDMI instability, especially when you're dealing with a 15m length. If the Trinnov firmware update doesn't fix things, I'd see if there is a way to temporarily use a shorter passive cable between Lumagen and JVC, to potentially identify that as the weak link.

 

[JohnA]

Is the AVProEdge still working for you? I’m having video dropouts in my Strato C > Trinnov> Lumagen> RS4200. Audio does not drop out when the video drops.

Using Trinnov as switcher. It has HDMI 2.1 board but I’ve changed it to 2.0 in settings, I’m using Tributaries 3m cable from Strato to Trinnov and same to Lumagen. Using 15m Bullet Train to projector.

Video dropouts may start right away or a few minutes into the movie. Duration is 1 to 5 seconds and there may be several in a row. Each time this happens I manually shut off all components and start back with projector to Lumagen to Trinnov to Strato. This usually works but not always.

For what it's worth, I had the exact same video only dropout issues with a Strato, Lumagen, and an older Trinnov with a pre cypress HDMI board.. Same cables you have, different projector. I have the Lumagen doing the source switching. Using the audio only out on the Strato got rid of the video dropouts, however I still occasionally have an audio only drop out. I have no idea why that would make a difference.

 

[HTRaleigh]

I have historically used the Lumagen as switcher but with the new Altitude 16 I changed to have that switch to see if that would help with audio dropouts I would get with Lumagen and Arcam AV40. Since I’m tied to a Control4 controller I can’t switch back without paying my installer unless I just do everything manually. Manual switching and startup is ok for isolation troubleshooting but it adds startup delay variability and that can impact the HDMI Handshake consistency too.

 

[DaveN]

I’m having audio dropouts with my Strato V into Lumagen with audio out to my Trinnov Altitude 32 and video to Sony 5000.

HDMI cables were changed to Lumagen recommended model and length. Would putting the Ethereal All-in-One HDMI Correction Tool #HDM-AIO2 between the Lumagen and Trinnov be a worthwhile move? Also, is this the correct insertion point in the chain?