Isn’t HDR 4:2:2 10bit only? I was under the impression that DV 4:2:2 is not identical to HDR10 4:2:2 due to the compression mechanism offering perceived higher bit depth (the ridiculous 11.5bit claims)?
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Movie Updates
- Thread starter Kostas
- Start date
Isn’t HDR 4:2:2 10bit only? I was under the impression that DV 4:2:2 is not identical to HDR10 4:2:2 due to the compression mechanism offering perceived higher bit depth (the ridiculous 11.5bit claims)?
Furnace Inferno
Well-known member
Why is the 11.5bit claim ridiculous?
It’s all purely to do with the colour container, they use ICtCp rather than YCbCr and using 10bit ICtCp is roughly equivalent to what you’d get using 11.5bit YCbCr.
I’m not sure any of it matters anyway since we are all using 10bit displays.
Because there is no such thing as half a bit! It’s just marketing-speak
Cinematic HDR10 titles are 10 bit 444. If they don’t have a HDR10 option they either don’t have a 444 file or they haven’t done the encode yet. Some titles have been added over time that were only DV to start with.
erixon1138
Well-known member
Exactly. There is some difference. That’s why I used “identical”.
But the HDR10 4:2:2 file is pointless when we have the DV 4:2:2 file as I understand.
I’m not sure I would say pointless. If I’m being honest I would always rather have a raw file rather than relying on a conversion. Just me maybe.
erixon1138
Well-known member
Totally agree. Conversion is not optimal.
But I rather have a dozen more movies a week updated to 4K Cinematic than have K resources make dual 4:2:2 versions.
I was too late to alter my previous post. Maybe I should have worded ’pointless’ to ‘should be pointless’
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Ah, OK, I missed the "air quotes" part - amazing how nuance can get lost on a forum
This was exactly my point, any conversion has the potential to have issues and/or lose information. This is more likely when done in real-time on a low power device when compared with a (possibly) multi-pass encode which has access to the original uncompressed data.
I guess, in most cases the output from the Strato K of a downconverter DV file and a raw HDR10 file are probably similar enough that KS don't feel it is worth providing the second encode as it would confuse things further.
Given the choice of DV, HDR10 and SDR is available in many cases, the 'best' one for any system is potentially subjective these days anyway.
It's not, you're just misunderstanding the claim. It has nothing to do with compression, it has to do with representing data in a way that more closely tracks human perception. Here's a PDF explaining it and the important claim is in the "baseband quantization" section -- basically, when you quantize color space representations down to 10/12 bits, how visible is the error?
The error for data encoded in ICtCp at 10 bits is between the error of YCbCr data encoded at 10 and 12 bits; as you say, there's no such thing as 11.5 bits, but you can compute the error of YCbCr as a continuous function, and if you _could_ have 11.5 bits, that matches where 10 bit ICtCp error would be.
It's a real thing, and a real advantage to DV over HDR10/HDR10+.
Weekend upgrade, looks like Hunter Killer got updated to Dolby Vision. It was already available in 4k Cinematic with HDR 
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2024
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Love these sub themed movies. Hoping The Hunt For Red October, gets the cinematic update.Weekend upgrade, looks like Hunter Killer got updated to Dolby Vision. It was already available in 4k Cinematic with HDR
One of my top favorite movies. It’s on the back end atm. I usually go to sleep with a select few movies, this is one. I want to see it in HDR.
Another good sub movie is U571, it was a great demo movie back in the day
I have it on HD-DVD.Another good sub movie is U571, it was a great demo movie back in the day
You still have an HD DVD player?I have it on HD-DVD.
You still have DVD’s? How about CD’s or god forbid vinyl? I have vinyl. lol.You still have an HD DVD player?
Yep. Still have it. Debated on a jumping into Laserdisc too. I love dead formats. I have the reference Toshiba player for HD-DVD.
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- Jul 22, 2024
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Yup, I have the 4k DV version on K, along with the 4k steel book. I used to demo the old U-571 Blu-ray each time I needed to tweak the subs.Another good sub movie is U571, it was a great demo movie back in the day
Some more titles which I adore are Crimson Tide, K-19: The widowmaker and Phantom (2013-Ed Harris).
Edit: just squeezing one more in; Das Boot (Director’s Cut)
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Yep, it all started with Laserdisc’s for me, my demo was Saving Private RyanYou still have DVD’s? How about CD’s or god forbid vinyl? I have vinyl. lol.
Yep. Still have it. Debated on a jumping into Laserdisc too. I love dead formats. I have the reference Toshiba player for HD-DVD.
from there it was Divx, Hd dvd, DVD, Blu ray, 4k UHD and now Kaleidescape. I still have a few of each of those for the memories. And as for vinyl I have over 3500 which I started collecting in my early teen years.I suppose with a name like HiFiHippie, I should have known better than to tangle with you.Yep, it all started with Laserdisc’s for me, my demo was Saving Private Ryan
Divx?!?!? I boycotted Circuit City until they went out of business over that crap.Yep, it all started with Laserdisc’s for me, my demo was Saving Private Ryan
