Hardware Needs...

[Joelc]

Apologies in advace for what will likely be a simple question but I have not been able to find teh answer anywhere...

I am considering purchasing a K system now that i) Blu-rays can be includede therein and ii) my home is now essentially complete...

The thing that is unclear to me is what is needed...

While I recognize that one of teh primaru advanatages of the K system is video distribution I am going to start with a system that will be geared exclusively to my hime theatre...

With the release of the Vault I know that I need one [or more of these] to house the phyiscal disks...no problem here..

With respect toe the server I believe that I need one of thses as the disk need tobe "copied/ripped/stored" somewhere...can someone please confirm this...

With resepct to the media player I know that I need one of the M300 or M500...as I have no interest in playing a disk directly from the player [i.e. I have an Oppo BDP-93 for this] I was thinking that there is no downside in terms of either audio or video quality in going with the M300...can someone please confirm this...

+++++++++++++++


So, assuming my understanding is correct I will need an M300, a server and thet vault....

Thanks in advance,

Joel

 

[cinelife]

Apologies in advace for what will likely be a simple question but I have not been able to find teh answer anywhere...

I am considering purchasing a K system now that i) Blu-rays can be includede therein and ii) my home is now essentially complete...

The thing that is unclear to me is what is needed...

While I recognize that one of teh primaru advanatages of the K system is video distribution I am going to start with a system that will be geared exclusively to my hime theatre...

With the release of the Vault I know that I need one [or more of these] to house the phyiscal disks...no problem here..

With respect toe the server I believe that I need one of thses as the disk need tobe "copied/ripped/stored" somewhere...can someone please confirm this...

With resepct to the media player I know that I need one of the M300 or M500...as I have no interest in playing a disk directly from the player [i.e. I have an Oppo BDP-93 for this] I was thinking that there is no downside in terms of either audio or video quality in going with the M300...can someone please confirm this...

+++++++++++++++


So, assuming my understanding is correct I will need an M300, a server and thet vault....

Thanks in advance,

Joel

Hi Joel, you are correct. The only components needed for a DVD/CD setup is a Server (to store content) and a Player capable of importing to that Server and playing back the content from the Server. That's the "basic" requirement for any K System.

If you also want to be able to store and playback Blu-ray content, then at a minimum you will need to add either an M500 Player (assuming you don't already have one with the DVD system I desribed above), or an M300 AND a Vault (MDV). The vault is needed if you want to import content and playback without the need to put the physical BR disk in the M500 tray (because it will already be in the Vault).

There are several Player models but the latest models are the M-series (M300 and M500). These are required for BR Playback (as well as taking advantage of the full functionality of the latest KEAOS software update). The other Players available (some through K that are refurbished, or in the private resale market) are 2500, MP2, and the 1080p Models, but these do not import or playback BR content.

Given the above, your understanding is correct, at a minimum you will need a Server, M300 and MDV (vault).

Servers include: Cinema One (not really built for BR, very limited capacity), or a 1U, again, not ideal for BR because it only has three usable storage slots and currently the largest drives are 2TB (total of 6TB max.), or a 3U (this is K's largest capacity server (12 storage slots (24TB possible)), and available as a refurbished model, the 5U (this was K's largest Server until it was replaced by the 3U. A limitation of the 5U is that the largest drive available for a 5U is limited to 750GB.

Hope that helps.


Jim

 

[Croptop]

One quick warning: if you opt to buy a 1U or 3U server, M300 player and a modular disc vault, you will have a system that will be limited to Blu-ray content only since the MDV does not import DVDs or CDs. To import DVD/CD content, you need a player that has an optical drive (M500 or KPLAYER-6000), or a Cinema One or you'll want to wait for the Integrated Disc Vault which will handle DVD and CD content.

 

[Joelc]

Cinelife and Croptop:

Appreciate the helpful and tiemly responses...

I guess that it is looking like:

a) CONFIGURATION 1: 3U server + M300 + IDV; Or

b) CONFIGURATION 2: 3U server + M500 + MDV

And, as far as follow up questions are concerned:

a) Any idea as to pricing and timing on the IDV

b) Any idea as the base/smallest configuration in terms of disc space in the 3U server

c) Any idea as to the pricing model on the 3U server; that is, is the cost the same between buying the unit fully configured [i.e. maximum capacity] versus adding capacity [i.e. disk space as you go]

d) As far as the 5U server is cocnerned how many 750GB drives does it hold so that I can do a comparison between the 24TB maximum of the 3u server

e) Concerning pricing is their a list/resource for MSRP pricing that is readily available other than through the dealer...note, the reason that I ask is that I would like to do some work on this project over the next day or two...

Thanks in advance for all of your help...


Joel

 

[Croptop]

Cinelife and Croptop:
a) CONFIGURATION 1: 3U server + M300 + IDV; Or

b) CONFIGURATION 2: 3U server + M500 + MDV

An Integrated Disc Vault has a player built into it so you won't need the M300 with configuration 1 unless you want two playback zones.

b) Any idea as the base/smallest configuration in terms of disc space in the 3U server

A 3U server requires a minimum of 3 drives. Keep in mind that the third drive is a hot spare and does not contribute to the overall available drive space. A 3U with 3 drives would give you the same usable space as a 1U with 2 drives.
Current shipping drives are 2 TB.

d) As far as the 5U server is cocnerned how many 750GB drives does it hold so that I can do a comparison between the 24TB maximum of the 3u server

Twelve.

 

[JerryL]

Hi Joel, we meet again (we know each other from the Meridian board )

My thoughts:

If its just one zone of playback Id strongly suggest you get the M500 player. The reason is I believe the MDV cannot import CDs. And there no doubt some movies you have on DVD that youll want to import and then not want to occupy a spot in the vault- you could manually remove them but why bother. So my thought is you should have at least 1 M500 player in the system.

I hear the IDV won't be out for several months (my own guesstimate and its MINE so don't read anything into it- is May/June). Id suggest you get one or more MDV (but each MDV needs to connect to a player whether its M500 or 300) for now and then maybe see what the IDV will be about. I know it will hold 300-320 discs which is nice but it will also incorporate a player in it and Ive heard the price will be over 2x the price of the MDV (makes sense). My point is if you want it now thats what I suggest. And I suggest you steer clear of the 5U. Its fine if you already owned one but for a new system, the 3U is a far superior product. The 5U is limited to 750gb drives, its out of production, though they still support it, and the 3U has the hot swap drive that comes on line if there is a failure- so if that happens- and disk failures do happen- over the years Ive had two or three go bad (I think 2 with my old 5U and one with a 3U (the 2 didnt happen at the same time)) then you have the benefit of the RAID helping you out but ordinarily you have lost your safety net with a drive failure. With the hot swap drive, you still have the safety net. Very smart. Worth it IMHO.

As an aside, if you are going to use the system for CD audio playback, my testing says to go with the SPDIF output as its bit accurate- the HDMI is but for me it tricks my processor into thinking its a 5.1 soundtrack and thus Im stuck with 5.1 playback modes only.

I resolved the issue of the players lack of internal decoding of TruHD and DTS MA here:

http://www.kscapeowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=862

Welcome to the family

 

[cinelife]

Joel, final pricing on the IDV has not been determined yet. No actual release date yet either, but expected mid-late next year.

Good "catch" Croptop, I should have been more clear about the MDV/M300 limitation.


Jim

 

[Joelc]

An Integrated Disc Vault has a player built into it so you won't need the M300with configuration 1 unless you want two playback zones.

Appreciated, noted and understood...

A 3U server requires a minimum of 3 drives. Keep in mind that the third drive is a hot spare and does not contribute to the overall available drive space. A 3U with 3 drives would give you the same usable space as a 1U with 2 drives.
Current shipping drives are 2 TB.

Again, apprecaited, noted and understood...
[/QUOTE]

Hi Joel, we meet again (we know each other from the Meridian board )

Funny how that keeps happening...good to see you as well and happy holidays to yoru and your family...

If its just one zone of playback Id strongly suggest you get the M500 player. The reason is I believe the MDV cannot import CDs. And there no doubt some movies you have on DVD that youll want to import and then not want to occupy a spot in the vault- you could manually remove them but why bother. So my thought is you should have at least 1 M500 player in the system.

Makes sense to me...

I hear the IDV won't be out for several months (my own guesstimate and its MINE so don't read anything into it- is May/June). Id suggest you get one or more MDV (but each MDV needs to connect to a player whether its M500 or 300) for now and then maybe see what the IDV will be about. I know it will hold 300-320 discs which is nice but it will also incorporate a player in it and Ive heard the price will be over 2x the price of the MDV (makes sense). My point is if you want it now thats what I suggest.

I am going to have to think this one through a bit as I would like to have all my disk stored in one area of the house -- that being the rack room -- as they seem to disappear with teenagers around ...and, on top of that, there is no gurantee of a second zone, at least not yet!

It would be great were there the ability to daisy chain the MDV as this would most definitely solve my problem and I would jump on it right now...as it is, I will have to think through the limitations of the MDV's connectability for the reasons noted above...

And I suggest you steer clear of the 5U. Its fine if you already owned one but for a new system, the 3U is a far superior product. The 5U is limited to 750gb drives, its out of production, though they still support it, and the 3U has the hot swap drive that comes on line if there is a failure- so if that happens- and disk failures do happen- over the years Ive had two or three go bad (I think 2 with my old 5U and one with a 3U (the 2 didnt happen at the same time)) then you have the benefit of the RAID helping you out but ordinarily you have lost your safety net with a drive failure. With the hot swap drive, you still have the safety net. Very smart. Worth it IMHO.

Appreciated, noted and understood...the 3U it is...

As an aside, if you are going to use the system for CD audio playback, my testing says to go with the SPDIF output as its bit accurate- the HDMI is but for me it tricks my processor into thinking its a 5.1 soundtrack and thus Im stuck with 5.1 playback modes only.

I resolved the issue of the players lack of internal decoding of TruHD and DTS MA here:

http://www.kscapeowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=862

Not an issue for me as I am using a separate system for that throughout the house...a very user friendly SONOS that everyone knows and loves..

Welcome to the family

Thanks but I am getting close but not there yet...

Joel, final pricing on the IDV has not been determined yet. No actual release date yet either, but expected mid-late next year.

Good "catch" Croptop, I should have been more clear about the MDV/M300 limitation.


Jim

Jim, appreciate the feedback, very helpful indeed...

 

[JerryL]

Thanks Joel- you too.

If its one zone then maybe its best to just wait the few months.

I would prefer to have all the discs in one spot. In my case I have 300-400 BRs. I figured that since I have several zones of playback and I could plug the MDV into those and I actually have closet space in those areas I could just slap a few MDVs around the house. Its not the more centralized setup I naturally default to- but the truth is once the discs are imported those vaults are there just to verify the discs presence.

You could get up and going with 1 M500 and 1 MDV and then when the IDV comes out you can add that and you could just use the IDV for storage. Or you could get as many MDV as you need and add M300s to those. The vault is surprisingly light and not that physically large. You could plop a M300 right on top and it seems like it would not not a big deal.

 

[Joelc]

Thanks Joel- you too.

If its one zone then maybe its best to just wait the few months.

Yes, I hear you and in making the decision as to what to do I will have to consider the tradeoffs between:

i) Getting a system aup and going now.

ii) The likelihood of doing multiple zone and, at that, how many zones would I do noting my best guess at this time would be 2 to 3 [i.e. home theatre, family room and kid's family room]...probably wont do one in the bedroom as the person I bought the house from did a dumb thing in that they designed the master bedroom such that teh largest TV that fit in there without re-doing the entire wall of built ins is 32" .

iii) The ability/acceptability of hanging multiple MDVs off of the M300s in other zones which, as you know, does not appeal to me.

Now, were one able to daisy chanin MDVs then I would pull the trigger now subject to pricing...and, on that note, anyone have a current price list and a rough idea of dealer discounting...

I would prefer to have all the discs in one spot. In my case I have 300-400 BRs. I figured that since I have several zones of playback and I could plug the MDV into those and I actually have closet space in those areas I could just slap a few MDVs around the house. Its not the more centralized setup I naturally default to- but the truth is once the discs are imported those vaults are there just to verify the discs presence.

You could get up and going with 1 M500 and 1 MDV and then when the IDV comes out you can add that and you could just use the IDV for storage. Or you could get as many MDV as you need and add M300s to those. The vault is surprisingly light and not that physically large. You could plop a M300 right on top and it seems like it would not not a big deal.

I have read that the M500 is 1U, that the server is 3U and that the MDV is 5U but with respect to the MDV's width is it possible to mount two of them side by side in a MA rack [and yes, one would have to order a custom made shelf] or are they too wide...

Thanks,

Joel

 

[JerryL]

Joel,
Ill have to take a good look at the MDV to answer the rack question but my guess is it would be too wide. It might require a 5U space but my impression is it seems like its more of a 3U height. Maybe Im wrong- Im going from just looking at it.

Suggestion on multi rooms: with kids its worth it. What the K system did for me is

1- liberated my library- so I wasnt watching LOTR over and over because thats all I saw when I looked at a wall of DVDs

2- Protected the DVDs from my kids. Otherwise you might have the disc in one player and the case in another room and youre always wondering where is that DVD. And you can never find it when you want it. Want to watch Mary Poppins? On drat- where is that disc!

On the multi MDV thing- how many BRs do you have?

One thing Ive done is to make a decision not to import BR TV seasons I have- eg Mad Men or something like that.

You can group multiple MDVs but you have to have the M300 or 500 connected. You don't necessarily have to have the M player plugged into a display. It basically doubles the price of the MDV. You can run a pretty long USB cable I believe so you could always put it in a shelf somewhere.

As to dealers and discounting- my general experience is its kind of like dealing with Meridian gear- you might get a little courtesy discount but don't expect a massive one. This is premium gear and its priced accordingly. The good news is: its plug and play. It just works. Really. To me thats the most impressive thing. There is a lot of complexity going on here and the product is very robust in terms of how it is simple to install and use.

 

[Joelc]

Joel,

Ill have to take a good look at the MDV to answer the rack question but my guess is it would be too wide. It might require a 5U space but my impression is it seems like its more of a 3U height. Maybe Im wrong- Im going from just looking at it.

Thanks, that would be greatly appreciated...

Suggestion on multi rooms: with kids its worth it. What the K system did for me is

1- liberated my library- so I wasnt watching LOTR over and over because thats all I saw when I looked at a wall of DVDs

2- Protected the DVDs from my kids. Otherwise you might have the disc in one player and the case in another room and youre always wondering where is that DVD. And you can never find it when you want it. Want to watch Mary Poppins? On drat- where is that disc!

I completely agree with you noting that these are my main motivations...the facts that i) it has a killer UI ii) it simply works and iii) etc. are bonus features to me...

You can group multiple MDVs but you have to have the M300 or 500 connected. You don't necessarily have to have the M player plugged into a display. It basically doubles the price of the MDV. You can run a pretty long USB cable I believe so you could always put it in a shelf somewhere.

Agreed and noted but that seems both expensive and not pratical...if I am going to spend the money on the additional M300 / M500 then I would hook it up to be played/viewed...

I wonder why they did not design the system such that one can daisy chain multiple MDVs...this sould make so much more sense...

As to dealers and discounting- my general experience is its kind of like dealing with Meridian gear- you might get a little courtesy discount but don't expect a massive one. This is premium gear and its priced accordingly. The good news is: its plug and play. It just works. Really. To me thats the most impressive thing. There is a lot of complexity going on here and the product is very robust in terms of how it is simple to install and use.

Agreed and noted...

 

[JerryL]

I have no idea as to the daisy chain thing- it would be nice and would make sense. It could be a hardware limitation of the OEM vault.

 

[JerryL]

Joel, there is no way you could fit 2 vaults side by side in a standard rack space and the unit is actually 5U.

Im really impressed with the operation of it.

 

[kman]

Interesting exchange here guys.

It would be nice to be able to have multiple MDVs on a USH hub connected to 1 M-Player. K says that could not be done. My assumption is that it could in fact be done and that they may be working on that missing piece of software to do just that - although this could be just wishful thinking.

Secondly, Joel, (we're a dealer) for maximum capability and least cost per TB of storage with a new system, I would recommend 1 M500 Player, the 3U Server with 2 2TB (system) drives plus whatever storage you may need in the short-medium term (maybe 2-4 additional 2TB drives), and 1 MDV that will autoload and store your first 100 BDs.

This way you have full system capability out of the gate with respect to handling BDs, DVDs, and CDs. Eventually they'll have the "IDV" Player/Loader combo. But we may even see Managed Content by them so who knows. In the meantime you will undoubtedly be another happy Kaleidescape customer!

Kindest Regards, Kelly

 

[Joelc]

Joel, there is no way you could fit 2 vaults side by side in a standard rack space and the unit is actually 5U.

Im really impressed with the operation of it.

Jerry:

Thanks so much, greatly appreciated...


Joel

 

[Joelc]

Interesting exchange here guys.

It would be nice to be able to have multiple MDVs on a USH hub connected to 1 M-Player. K says that could not be done. My assumption is that it could in fact be done and that they may be working on that missing piece of software to do just that - although this could be just wishful thinking.

Secondly, Joel, (we're a dealer) for maximum capability and least cost per TB of storage with a new system, I would recommend 1 M500 Player, the 3U Server with 2 2TB (system) drives plus whatever storage you may need in the short-medium term (maybe 2-4 additional 2TB drives), and 1 MDV that will autoload and store your first 100 BDs.

This way you have full system capability out of the gate with respect to handling BDs, DVDs, and CDs. Eventually they'll have the "IDV" Player/Loader combo. But we may even see Managed Content by them so who knows. In the meantime you will undoubtedly be another happy Kaleidescape customer!

Kindest Regards, Kelly

Kelly:

Appreciate the advice noting that the route you suggest is the direction that I am already leaning in....the final hurdles before pulling the trigger are those noted above as well as the recently surfaced -- at least to me -- 3D issue...

And, to be clear on this last point, I, at present, have no interest in 3D but would hate to have to undergo a significant upgarde cost shortly after purchasing my system...

All the best and much thanks,

Joel

 

[JerryL]

Joel, as someone pondering this- have you seen Jim's excellent writeup on the Vault?

http://www.kscapeowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=840

 

[Joelc]

Joel, as someone pondering this- have you seen Jim's excellent writeup on the Vault?

http://www.kscapeowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=840

Jerry:

Appreciate the link...


Joel

 

[kman]

Hi all,

Joel, your comment about 3D support is noted. K does an exceptionally good job (for better or worse) of not disclosing what's coming down the pipe until release. That said my expectation is that at some point they would have 3D support. If so, your Server/storage investment need not change. Your Player(s) would simply need to be upgraded to new 3D Player(s). And K also does an exceptionally good job of offering its users significant savings for upgrading.

Unfortunately technology changes. We can either jump in and begin to enjoy or ride the pine in wait. Whichever you decide is fine. Just know that K takes very good care of their customers. I'm sure any member of this forum will echo that.

Kelly