Closing the Buyer's Guide megathread 👍👎

[josh]

@josh

1. Following the closure of a thread containing extensive independent technical findings critical of a Kaleidescape product, what concrete steps will the forum take to preserve that analysis and ensure critical findings receive the same protection and visibility as favorable commentary?

Answer to the first part: the content remains, nothing's deleted. If @Rmarci wants it PINNED (sticky) to the very top of that forum area, ensuring it's ALWAYS at the top, higher visibility thatn it's EVER had, i'm happy to do that. no one is trying to hide it.

Won't answer your second part because it implies that I'm actively suppressing/deleting/hiding negative things said about the company. never once did that. therefore the question is moot... what you're asking for is already being done and is the policy of the site.

 

[rafaelsmith]

My final thoughts on this whole unfortante situation..not that I believe my thoughts really matter....After all I am not the desired Kaleidescape customer.

I think locking down the thread was the wrong move but not a surprising one all things considered.

So people were "offended" that their precious Kaleidescape was being shown to have flaws...who cares...why cater to them over anyone else? Because this seems to be a fanboy forum first and foremost.

if members were being rude or whatever..ban them ..if that includes me .so be it..but to lock down a thread full of useful data shows to me a desire to silence the data...while I truely appreciated the info @Rmarci presented I hope he stops providing it on this forum ..clearly it's not wanted. There has to be a better "forum"....Yeah I know that presenting Kaleidescape in a negative light scares the flock....good...they could use it imo.

I am done with this topic...and most likely this forum.

 

[grettagirl]

i'll have no way to convince doubters, but I have not even seen any such media reports, nor have i been contacted about it by press, Kaleidescape, or anyone else. I don't do Kaleidescape's bidding on this forum... i've been critical of them and their decisions many times over the years myself. I've heard when they don't like something I posted, and I told them directly I wouldn't take it down or change a single word.

Again, if i were trying to protect kaleidescape, skew opinions of them positive, hide bad news... would I leave everything in place, leave all user accounts in place, not change any rules about what to post or what not to post? none of that has changed... nothing is buried or hidden.

And I have no financial interest in Kaleidescape... zero. i'm not a dealer, an employee, or an investor in the company, they're not an advertiser or sponsor, never contributed any money here in any way - not to this board, not to me personally.

The comment referred to above was not about media outlets asking questions about Cinematic files, it was about someone contacting multiple media outlets on the same day to point them to that particular thread, and waiting to see if those outlets report on the information that was given to them. The person who posted that comment either was the one who sent those messages to media outlets or has direct knowledge of who did.

This is beyond reporting problems in a forum so they can be fixed, this seems to be about trying to materially damage the reputation of Kaleidescape.

Post #22 today at 5:48 am by thrawn997
“It's interesting the closing of it occured on the day that multiple media outlets were contacted about K's continued false marketing, with them being pointed to that exact thread”

Post #24 today at 6:07 am by Jin-X (in response to post #22)
“Whoa I didn’t know about that, do you have any links/examples of the outlets?”

Post #25 today at 6:13 am by thrawn997
“They haven't reported on it yet, we'll see if they do.”

 

[JonProphet]

My final thoughts on this whole unfortante situation..not that I believe my thoughts really matter....After all I am not the desired Kaleidescape customer.

I think locking down the thread was the wrong move but not a surprising one all things considered.

So people were "offended" that their precious Kaleidescape was being shown to have flaws...who cares...why cater to them over anyone else? Because this seems to be a fanboy forum first and foremost.

if members were being rude or whatever..ban them ..if that includes me .so be it..but to lock down a thread full of useful data shows to me a desire to silence the data...while I truely appreciated the info @Rmarci presented I hope he stops providing it on this forum ..clearly it's not wanted. There has to be a better "forum"....Yeah I know that presenting Kaleidescape in a negative light scares the flock....good...they could use it imo.

I am done with this topic...and most likely this forum.

Good bye.

 

[thrawn997]

This is beyond reporting problems in a forum so they can be fixed, this seems to be about trying to materially damage the reputation of Kaleidescape.

As we see personal attacks like this can only be made in one direction here.

My intention is what I have said before and that many people who may be quieter than I share, to be able to know which of the movies have been fixed and to see improvements to their QC process.

The timing seemed unusual and I noted it. Josh said it has nothing to do with it, and I believe him.

 

[DieZwei]

Josh I mentioned this to someone else but I think it would be helpful if an “ignore thread” feature could be added to the forum. Because some people here just don’t want that thread to exist, period.

I think the overarching assumption that people want the thread or findings from RMarci to disappear is wrong.
As @josh and others have mentioned before, it was the permanent mockering and bickering in that thread that made it unuseable, not Rmarci´s findings. Permanently bringing that assumption up is not going to calm the discussion down.
I´m still interested in the findings, so I don´t want to ignore the thread. And I´ve never put forum users on an ignore list as I´m always interested in other´s opinions, even if they don´t align to mine.
Ignoring people and opinions is only dealing with symptoms, not the root cause.

 

[gerald.d]

My final thoughts on this whole unfortante situation..not that I believe my thoughts really matter....After all I am not the desired Kaleidescape customer.

I think locking down the thread was the wrong move but not a surprising one all things considered.

So people were "offended" that their precious Kaleidescape was being shown to have flaws...who cares...why cater to them over anyone else? Because this seems to be a fanboy forum first and foremost.

if members were being rude or whatever..ban them ..if that includes me .so be it..but to lock down a thread full of useful data shows to me a desire to silence the data...while I truely appreciated the info @Rmarci presented I hope he stops providing it on this forum ..clearly it's not wanted. There has to be a better "forum"....Yeah I know that presenting Kaleidescape in a negative light scares the flock....good...they could use it imo.

I am done with this topic...and most likely this forum.

This isn't an airport.

 

[cyberkryten]

Moderating a forum is a thankless task, done voluntarily, usually by people who would rather be doing something else but do it anyway

Decisions are often questioned, but made in good faith, which is all you can ask and given the explanations that seems the case here

Sometimes, as a moderator you just want to take the sting out of entrenched positions in the hope everyone calms down so I can fully understand the decision

 

[Htjinus]

The comment referred to above was not about media outlets asking questions about Cinematic files, it was about someone contacting multiple media outlets on the same day to point them to that particular thread, and waiting to see if those outlets report on the information that was given to them. The person who posted that comment either was the one who sent those messages to media outlets or has direct knowledge of who did.

This is beyond reporting problems in a forum so they can be fixed, this seems to be about trying to materially damage the reputation of Kaleidescape.

Post #22 today at 5:48 am by thrawn997
“It's interesting the closing of it occured on the day that multiple media outlets were contacted about K's continued false marketing, with them being pointed to that exact thread”

Post #24 today at 6:07 am by Jin-X (in response to post #22)
“Whoa I didn’t know about that, do you have any links/examples of the outlets?”

Post #25 today at 6:13 am by thrawn997
“They haven't reported on it yet, we'll see if they do.”

The person who posted that comment either was the one who sent those messages to media outlets or has direct knowledge of who did.

@josh

what is the forum’s position on members publicly attributing undisclosed actions, knowledge and motives to another member as fact or near-fact?

exactly where the forum draws that line, and whether the same standard applies regardless of whether a post is defending or criticizing Kaleidescape?

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Well, English is my 2nd tongue, and I rarely even speak it in real life, so I might not always think about how certain words come across to a native English speaker. That said, I still think it’s fair to describe something as way worse, slightly worse, or simply worse without it necessarily being subjective.

But if you think it’s way worse and someone else doesn’t and wants to voice that, then what?

My final thoughts on this whole unfortante situation..not that I believe my thoughts really matter....After all I am not the desired Kaleidescape customer.

I think locking down the thread was the wrong move but not a surprising one all things considered.

So people were "offended" that their precious Kaleidescape was being shown to have flaws...who cares...why cater to them over anyone else? Because this seems to be a fanboy forum first and foremost.

if members were being rude or whatever..ban them ..if that includes me .so be it..but to lock down a thread full of useful data shows to me a desire to silence the data...while I truely appreciated the info @Rmarci presented I hope he stops providing it on this forum ..clearly it's not wanted. There has to be a better "forum"....Yeah I know that presenting Kaleidescape in a negative light scares the flock....good...they could use it imo.

I am done with this topic...and most likely this forum.

You know for me the sad thing is people like you who were at one point reasonable got swept up in a particular style of hyperbolic posting because that’s how other people in that thread were behaving and tried to normalise it. You can’t post provocative things and then act like you’ve done nothing when someone reacts, that is the very definition of gaslighting.

Somebody disagreeing with the severity of something and posting their opinion does not make them a fanboy/girl. Somebody saying they don’t care because it looks good to them doesn’t make them either, is the latter adding anything to the conversation, no not really but a healthy discussion about whether an issue is visible in practice certainly is. Just like discussions about whether the increased chroma and bandwidth brings any benefits is relevant and what I assume we all hoped Rmarci’s testing of 4KC was going to be about. Discussing that doesn’t diminish the work it helps a layperson understand how the issue will impact them, if at all and actually excluding them unless they jump on board the hate train works to the detriment of the work.

The only person I can think of recently who could even be classed as a fanboy hasn’t even posted in the thread but made comments about how amazing the Strato K is and that it’s superior in every way including the audio but that was completely harmless. In contrast someone else could just as easily call you a “hater” on the other extreme and you are certainly closer to that than others are to fanboys but happy to admit I’m wrong on that front if there are posts in that thread which I’ve missed.

I’m sure you will have a great time outside of these forums because it’s mostly haters out there, although I suspect you’ll get bored of them because their sole 1-dimensional issue is the price relative to building your own NAS and everything being a ripoff because they don’t value the software/delivery USP.

Sometimes it’s better to take a step back and take stock before being blinded by being too emotionally invested in something and let’s face it everyone has been in that position at some point in their lives whether it be for or against something.

Eventually though you need to realise that you and others keep moving into accusatory, belittling territory, in that last post alone you’ve made 3 unsubstantiated accusations and 2 direct digs at users. I know you guys are locked into this path but it’s just a shame is all because disagreements don’t need to be this way.

 

[JonProphet]

I think the overarching assumption that people want the thread or findings from RMarci to disappear is wrong.
As @josh and others have mentioned before, it was the permanent mockering and bickering in that thread that made it unuseable, not Rmarci´s findings. Permanently bringing that assumption up is not going to calm the discussion down.
I´m still interested in the findings, so I don´t want to ignore the thread. And I´ve never put forum users on an ignore list as I´m always interested in other´s opinions, even if they don´t align to mine.
Ignoring people and opinions is only dealing with symptoms, not the root cause.

The Flat Earther theory style mental gymnastics that people were trying to hide or get the data from @rmarci’s finding deleted is laughable.

I’d like anyone who wanted it hidden or removed to step forward and say so. I’ll wait.

 

[Nathan28]

The comment referred to above was not about media outlets asking questions about Cinematic files, it was about someone contacting multiple media outlets on the same day to point them to that particular thread, and waiting to see if those outlets report on the information that was given to them. The person who posted that comment either was the one who sent those messages to media outlets or has direct knowledge of who did.

This is beyond reporting problems in a forum so they can be fixed, this seems to be about trying to materially damage the reputation of Kaleidescape.

Post #22 today at 5:48 am by thrawn997
“It's interesting the closing of it occured on the day that multiple media outlets were contacted about K's continued false marketing, with them being pointed to that exact thread”

Post #24 today at 6:07 am by Jin-X (in response to post #22)
“Whoa I didn’t know about that, do you have any links/examples of the outlets?”

Post #25 today at 6:13 am by thrawn997
“They haven't reported on it yet, we'll see if they do.”

Kaleidescape is hurting their own reputation…promising one thing, charging a fortune for it, not delivering on that promise… but in fact it being worse than what came before. Ppl should know this.

“If you spend 60k on this 500hp mustang, it’s more fast than all previous mustangs, it really pushes the limits to what’s possible” a Dude spends the 60k …. Another dude named Rmarci captures the performance of said mustang.,
“Well… that new 60k mustang is slower than the mustang that’s been out for two years”
Kaleidescape has egg in their face!!!! And I feel like a complete idiot for buying a K player. Any convo that doesn’t turn up the heat to fix this.. is a waste of this forum. The K player is a rip off… it’s ripping ppl off and lying to them.

 

[JonProphet]

Once again this thread is heading down the drain with hyperbole and accusations…… Trolls claiming to be wounded and proclaiming, “woah is me……” hilarious. This thread is….. a waste of time.

 

[JonProphet]

Kaleidescape is hurting their own reputation…promising one thing, charging a fortune for it, not delivering on that promise… but in fact it being worse than what came before. Ppl should know this.

“If you spend 60k on this 500hp mustang, it’s more fast than all previous mustangs, it really pushes the limits to what’s possible” a Dude spends the 60k …. Another dude named Rmarci captures the performance of said mustang.,
“Well… that new 60k mustang is slower than the mustang that’s been out for two years”
Kaleidescape has egg in their face!!!! And I feel like a complete idiot for buying a K player. Any convo that doesn’t turn up the heat to fix this.. is a waste of this forum. The K player is a rip off… it’s ripping ppl off and lying to them.

You know, your Mustang analogy couldn’t be more applicable to this situation.

Let’s get in our Way Back Machines and take a look back at 1999. Brand new New Edge Cobra Mustangs were hitting the show room floors and buyers high and low were clamoring to buy one. Almost everyone knew that Ford rushed this product to market.

All was not well in the land of gear heads, early reports were that something was off. Ford made lofty claims of 300 HP from their mighty little DOHC 4.6L v8.

Reports began circulating with speculation that the Mustang was no where near the claimed 300HP. Calls for torches and pitchforks were made and owners and non-owners alike heeded the call. They wanted Henry Ford’s head on a pike.

Ford responded, “oops, our bad”, we’re working on a solution. Again, the mob screamed, NOT FAST ENOUGH! We want blood! We want heads on pikes!” Anyone catching the metaphor here? Verruca Salt was out front screaming “I want it now Daddy!!!!”

Yes, Ford released a recall on all 1999 Ford Cobra Mustangs but obviously the Mustang and Cobra were tarnished forever, or so they thought….. in 2000, Ford released the 1 off 400HP (again Ford is again assumed to have been wrong on the rating but much higher this time) Cobra R and in 2003 released the 400 Hp Supercharged Mustang Cobra. In a few short years, the 2000 Cobra faded into myth and legend. Or so they thought……

In summary, the early adopters who feel they got burned and are not satisfied with Kaleidescape…. Oops Ford’s time table on the fix, want heads on pikes.

 

[swarley]

Here we go spooling back up again, which I guess makes sense. We’re well within the realm of diminishing returns here, and as the cost of gains rises asymptotically, so too do the emotions of those in pursuit of them. And when their very existence starts to get questioned, doubly so.

Just thinking out loud, and I don’t even know if it’s possible, but enforcing a type of ‘slow mode’ in this thread where users can only post a couple times every 24 hours or so may go a long way in dialing the temperature down. Certainly not ideal, but it might cause folks to think twice about whether trading barbs is worth burning their quota.

All I know is I don’t envy the mods right now. Clearly no outcome is going to please everyone.

 

[gerald.d]

Moderating a forum is a thankless task, done voluntarily, usually by people who would rather be doing something else but do it anyway

Decisions are often questioned, but made in good faith, which is all you can ask and given the explanations that seems the case here

Sometimes, as a moderator you just want to take the sting out of entrenched positions in the hope everyone calms down so I can fully understand the decision

Concur 100%.

I do feel sorry for the mods as they need to have visibility of posts from all members and can't simply put the trolls on ignore.

 

[thrawn997]

Once again this thread is heading down the drain with hyperbole and accusations…… Trolls claiming to be wounded and proclaiming, “woah is me……” hilarious. This thread is….. a waste of time.

Yes unfortunately when moderation allows repeated direct attacks, broken window theory applies. @josh now that the insults and attacks have migrated here, can we reopen the other thread?

 

[thrawn997]

what is the forum’s position on members publicly attributing undisclosed actions, knowledge and motives to another member as fact or near-fact?

If you are criticizing K, I will tell you from experience they have absolutely zero problem deleting posts. I've had a post deleted because I used the word BS in full to describe K's actions despite other users having used the same word. In this thread there are multiple direct name calling and attacks on me just like the last thread. They will probably remain up.

 

[thrawn997]

Just thinking out loud, and I don’t even know if it’s possible, but enforcing a type of ‘slow mode’ in this thread where users can only post a couple times every 24 hours or so may go a long way in dialing the temperature down.

I think enforcing existing rules on direct attacks would entirely solve the issue. We are fine with people posting frequent favorable things about K. Emotions get hot for a small number of people when they hear something critical of K. Rate limits don't help with that. Nothing will besides enforcing the existing rules against directly attacking other members.

And to be clear, only one person so far in this thread has spoken up against direct attacks on a member. As a community we can't delete posts ourselves but we can at a minimum make it clear that calling people's posts worthless, calling people trolls, are not kind interactions and we do not support them.

 

[artur9]

I don't understand why some here are so intent on attacking the company versus just pointing out that the device (or processes) are flawed, let alone why members are attacking members with differing opinions.

I have a Samsung TV and Samsung makes/made a lot of mistake with the firmware of that TV, to the extent it can actually impact the metrics that TVs are measured by. The forum covering that gets hot for a day or two when flawed firmware comes out and then everyone goes back to talking about how best to tune the TV for various uses.

Here, the entrenched positions go on endlessly, repeating the same points over and over and over.

Were it possible, limiting members to one post a day to "that thread" would force members to reflect on how important their post really is and whether or not it adds anything new to the discussion.

On another forum I used to frequent, they instituted a rule that members could not post multiple times to a thread unless someone else posted. That might also be helpful.