[Buyer’s Guide] Kaleidescape Quality Compared to Blu-ray & other Digital Sources

[Rmarci]

but I call BS to claims that streamers give a better movie experience. Sorry, but no.

Not a claim and nothing to do with ''movie experience'', not BS, and not a subjective opinion.

I’ve demonstrated multiple times that Movies Anywhere can deliver better picture quality and superior film grain retention than Kaleidescape. That’s on top of the numerous Kaleidescape releases I’ve explicitly called out for color errors, excessive DNR, or the use of artificial grain.

I’m not talking about the audio here. But realistically, most people in this thread who can’t see issues or quality differences in the comparisons I’ve shown would almost certainly fail a blind test between lossy E-AC3 Atmos and lossless Atmos, assuming their AVR is capable of defeating Dialnorm, which is present on all lossy Atmos tracks.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

You didn't look at their claims but you don't think they're outrageous



I definitely saw 2 of the issues, I just don't A/B test every single movie to see if the issues are in the source or the hardware. But regardless, people shouldn't need to A/B test things, the company charging a gigantic markup to offer "reference quality" should be held to a higher standard. They themselves admitted this is an issue. They didn't try to pretend that it is imperceptible like you are doing. The only thing up for debate imo is if it's satisfactory for them to take quarters to release a fix. You clearly think so, because you do not see the issue for whatever reason. Cool, I get that. I don't get why you are so mad and defensive about people who want their issue fixed.

I’m basing it on your quotes of what they are saying, I don’t care enough to look.

I haven’t said anything about it being imperceptible, I’m saying it’s not as big an issue as you are making out. By your own admission, you wouldn’t even have known without doing an A/B comparison. Some people enjoy doing that to find small improvements and if it brings someone their own happiness then great but it’s clearly not having a positive outcome on you obsessing over it.

Pretty sure nothing I’ve said has displayed any emotion or defensiveness, perhaps that’s how you perceive disagreements but that’s on you not me .

 

[thrawn997]

By your own admission, you wouldn’t even have known without doing an A/B comparison

That is not what I said. I said I wouldn't know if the fault of what I saw was K or the source material. I can see that details aren't as important to you

 

[artur9]

Well, my 100 TB NAS USB enclosure cost me around $2,000. .... I don’t think this can reasonably be used as an argument against the Ugoos media player. The only real downside is having to rip your discs, and any cheap PC can do that without issue.

Also, with KS, I can’t run any test patterns to properly verify or measure its video processing performance, as I did with the Ugoos.

Sure.

Just that having done that for nigh on 10 years, I got tired of doing it. It's the IT sysadmin* burden that I find unbearable at my ripe old age :-D.

* never have been nor ever wanted to be a sysadmin; other than to more fully understand TheRegister's jokes.

 

[thrawn997]

I too do not want to be managing all that myself but now I'm here having just ordered an ugoos because the alternative is relying on a company that doesn't appear sufficiently capable of doing it properly themselves

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Not a claim and nothing to do with ''movie experience'', not BS, and not a subjective opinion.

I’ve demonstrated multiple times that Movies Anywhere can deliver better picture quality and superior film grain retention than Kaleidescape. That’s on top of the numerous Kaleidescape releases I’ve explicitly called out for color errors, excessive DNR, or the use of artificial grain.

I’m not talking about the audio here. But realistically, most people in this thread who can’t see issues or quality differences in the comparisons I’ve shown would almost certainly fail a blind test between lossy E-AC3 Atmos and lossless Atmos, assuming their AVR is capable of defeating Dialnorm, which is present on all lossy Atmos tracks.

Makes perfect sense that someone who thinks your streamed images look the worst of all the images would also not be able to hear differences, despite the fact on a basic level they are two entirely different sensory systems .

That is not what I said. I said I wouldn't know if the fault of what I saw was K or the source material. I can see that details aren't as important to you

They’re one and the same thing though because if you did the A/B and the same issue was on the UHD then you’d just move on and not care.

If you have to go through that process for some obsessive need to make sure it is in fact the best it can look, well all I can say is that sucks for you.

Anyway I’ll drop out now as we will end up going around in circles again and let’s face it, you aren’t interested in talking about it, the only thing you want is for it to be fixed so let’s leave it at that.

 

[thrawn997]

They’re one and the same thing though because if you did the A/B and the same issue was on the UHD then you’d just move on and not care

I would care, I would just understand it was bad production and not a broken device.

 

[cinelife]

The same reason I did, because it claimed to offer superior quality. I do not believe you are doing right by your customers to pretend these issues are a matter of opinion and not something objectively measured that the company has confirmed is a problem. I certainly wouldn't trust you.

I said I wouldn't respond but your assumptions force me to....

What's to trust??? I don't tell my customers how to examine a movie, and frankly I also haven't had to "sell" anyone on a K product, they come to me knowing what they want. As I stated, I don't watch movies looking for issues, I watch for the story and acting. My clients purchase many different K products, and the majority the issues you lose sleep over are not apparent to them, or I would expect to hear about it.

You don't know me, if you did you'd know how I deal with product problems if experienced by my clients. You'd also know that I do not have the normal dealer motivation when someone considers buying through me. Not sure who you dealt with when you purchased your Strato player, but if you'd been my client I would have offered to buy it back, refunded your entire Store account, and sent you on your way back to the streaming services.

Jim

 

[thrawn997]

if you'd been my client I would have offered to buy it back, refunded your entire Store account, and sent you on your way back to the streaming services.

 

[dinom]

I would care, I would just understand it was bad production and not a broken device.

I guess at this point, why not cut your losses and just sell your K-scape product and move on? It's clear that K-scape is not for everyone, and no one is forcing you to use it. And I mean this will all due respect.

 

[Rmarci]

I guess at this point, why not cut your losses and just sell your K-scape product and move on? It's clear that K-scape is not for everyone, and no one is forcing you to use it. And I mean this will all due respect.

Perhaps because KS has confirmed the issue and also confirmed that a fix is coming in “early spring.”

This is essentially the same situation across all TV-related threads on AVSForum. Discussing issues does not mean we don’t enjoy the device or appreciate the quality it can deliver, especially when it allows access to content much earlier than waiting for a physical release.

I’ve made multiple comparisons showing that KS encodes can, in some cases, be significantly better than the disc counterparts. However, some people here seem to take offense whenever these issues are brought up. No one is forcing anyone to read this thread.

 

[dinom]

So this is an encoding issue with content and not one with the hardware or firmware? I thought that’s what folks were talking about.

 

[Rmarci]

So this is an encoding issue with content and not one with the hardware or firmware? I thought that’s what folks were talking about.

It used to be both, but the latest encoding quality has improved significantly since I raised these issues.

The upcoming firmware update will address the unintended processing that causes block artifacts and grain smoothing (DNR) in brighter areas of the image.

It will also fix the minor over-cropping issue, which is partly related to store metadata. In practice, all 2.38:1 and 2.39:1 content is currently being treated as if it were 2.40:1.

 

[dinom]

And these firmware issues are with all Strato players or just the newer units? Just trying to understand.

 

[Rmarci]

Only the units with the newer chip that enabled Dolby Vision support.

 

[dinom]

Ok, I use a C in my theater with projector and an E in my living room on a 55” OLED. That’s probably why I have never noticed any issues.

 

[thrawn997]

I guess at this point, why not cut your losses and just sell your K-scape product and move on? It's clear that K-scape is not for everyone, and no one is forcing you to use it. And I mean this will all due respect.

Will K refund all the purchases? Regardless, if u aren't effected by this defect I'm not sure why you're worried about me moving on or not but I appreciate it.

 

[dinom]

You would have to sell privately and no, you would not recover your full investment. You seem to be more bothered about this than most, so I was just trying to offer a suggestion since you don’t appear to be satisfied with your purchase.

 

[dinom]

Actually, I was using the E in my theater for a short period before I bought the C and a Terra Prime Server. Other than the UI looking a little blurrier, the actual movie content looked great to me. I don’t recall any differences compared to my C.

 

[thrawn997]

You would have to sell privately and no, you would not recover your full investment. You seem to be more bothered about this than most, so I was just trying to offer a suggestion since you don’t appear to be satisfied with your purchase.

Thanks, I was aware of the option to pass off my defective hardware to someone else but given the amount of money sunk into it my preference is that they would release the fix they acknowledged is needed in a more reasonable timeframe.

You seem awfully distraught about my well-being but I assure you I'm good.