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[Buyer’s Guide] Kaleidescape Quality Compared to Blu-ray & other Digital Sources

@Rmarci - would you like me to create a separate forum area for detailed tech analysis and comparisons like you're posting here?
Then instead of this being one huge long thread, there can be separate posts for each title you're examining, making it much easier for viewers to track the status of these analyses as they get addressed/improved?

Open to hearing from others if this would be helpful too, but what matters most is @Rmarci's desire to maintain it that way. If we proceed, the hard part would be going back to this long thread and braking the posts out by title into the new format... you could do that, or i can also try to help.

Note that it means that going forward, it would be less than ideal to have posts referring to multiple movies in the same post. If we proceed with this change, then updates should be per-title and on the correct thread for that title.
 
Thanks, but I'm not sure, and it sounds like a lot of work for you, so I think I prefer to keep everything in this thread. You can easily track any of my comparisons (and updates) using the Excel sheet in my signature.
ok. i don't mind the work and really see benefits to users to being able to see and discuss each review you post in its own thread.

Once a single thread gets over 10-15 pages, I take a look and see if there's a better way to do things as it can be tough finding what you want in these megathreads.

but will defer to your preference. If you change your mind, let me know... happy to get it set up.
 
The Conjuring Last Rites 2025

VIDEO:


AUDIO:

Proper colors and compression, but the block artifacts in highlights are back SMH!!! I understand that fixing older problematic titles takes time, but after the color issues in Caught Stealing and now the block artifacts in The Conjuring 4, it really seems like nothing has changed. They just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again. Kaleidescape is so expensive, you’d think they could afford to hire competent people. Honestly, name one CEO or supervisor who would let their employees make this many mistakes and still not fire anyone.


KS HDR10 metadata:

conjruing metadata.png

HDR measurement:

The.Conjuring.Last.Rites.2025.HDR.itunes.WEB.HDR_plot.png

Dolby Vision Metadata and trim pass:

The.Conjuring.Last.Rites.2025.DV5.iT.WEB.DoVi_L1_PLOT.png
The.Conjuring.Last.Rites.2025.DV5.iT.WEB.DoVi.L8.PLOT.100nits.trim.png
 
The Conjuring Last Rites 2025

VIDEO:


AUDIO:

Proper colors and compression, but the block artifacts in highlights are back SMH!!! I understand that fixing older problematic titles takes time, but after the color issues in Caught Stealing and now the block artifacts in The Conjuring 4, it really seems like nothing has changed. They just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again. Kaleidescape is so expensive, you’d think they could afford to hire competent people. Honestly, name one CEO or supervisor who would let their employees make this many mistakes and still not fire anyone.


KS HDR10 metadata:

View attachment 8837

HDR measurement:

View attachment 8838

Dolby Vision Metadata and trim pass:

View attachment 8839
View attachment 8840

Probably their software causing it, which I’m guessing isn’t an easy or cheap fix.
 
The Conjuring Last Rites 2025

VIDEO:


AUDIO:

Proper colors and compression, but the block artifacts in highlights are back SMH!!! I understand that fixing older problematic titles takes time, but after the color issues in Caught Stealing and now the block artifacts in The Conjuring 4, it really seems like nothing has changed. They just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again. Kaleidescape is so expensive, you’d think they could afford to hire competent people. Honestly, name one CEO or supervisor who would let their employees make this many mistakes and still not fire anyone.


KS HDR10 metadata:

View attachment 8837

HDR measurement:

View attachment 8838

Dolby Vision Metadata and trim pass:

View attachment 8839
View attachment 8840
Something I have been wondering/worried about is that sure...patching all the titles with problems is good and all...but what about the process, approach, tools, yada yada (why are some of these things even a thing?) that caused those issues in the first place....is that being addressed so that this things do not appear again. Seems not since they still are. I truely hope someone at K is looking at this from a more macro approach rather than just slapping patches on titles as they are reported....that would be a never ending process.
 
Tools are rarely the problem. The person operating them is the issue 99% of the time.

The audio dialnorm issue is a very good example of their incompetence or lack of technical quality control.
I remember years ago when I first used the Dolby Encoding Engine to transcode some TrueHD or DDP audio, I noticed within 15 minutes of usage that Dolby was defaulting to the -26DB dialnorm(or something like that). Their “new or old tool” excuse is so lame, IMO. This is clearly a case of incompetence.
 
Tools are rarely the problem. The person operating them is the issue 99% of the time.

The audio dialnorm issue is a very good example of their incompetence or lack of technical quality control.
I remember years ago when I first used the Dolby Encoding Engine to transcode some TrueHD or DDP audio, I noticed within 15 minutes of usage that Dolby was defaulting to the -26DB dialnorm(or something like that). Their “new or old tool” excuse is so lame, IMO. This is clearly a case of incompetence.
Well the tool could be the source of the problem....now not identifying the issue ..especially the obvious ones before release and then only "reacting" weeks/months later when some user points them out....is definitely a person/QA problem. My concern is not just with the tools and process but with whe whole approach/testing/QA...or lack thereof. For something as premium as K...this level of quality is unacceptable. K seems to have good hardware engineers....software and AV specialist is seems to be another story. I mean their Kai is laughably "stupid".
 
Tools are rarely the problem. The person operating them is the issue 99% of the time.

The audio dialnorm issue is a very good example of their incompetence or lack of technical quality control.
I remember years ago when I first used the Dolby Encoding Engine to transcode some TrueHD or DDP audio, I noticed within 15 minutes of usage that Dolby was defaulting to the -26DB dialnorm(or something like that). Their “new or old tool” excuse is so lame, IMO. This is clearly a case of incompetence.
In all honesty....I would rather they spend the time and $$ they are on "fixing" these existing titles that are already out there....that most have been watching and would not have known there were issues until this thread...in hiring competent "SME"s and revamping the process so that future releases do not suffer. I know in my case, now that i know about all this...and that it keeps on happening...I am a whole lot less inclined to purchase anything new. I am still baffled that K has been compromising on encodes like iTunes or Netflix have too ..given the fact that K does not have the constraints (badnwidth, storage, etc) that those others do.
 
In all honesty....I would rather they spend the time and $$ they are on "fixing" these existing titles that are already out there....that most have been watching and would not have known there were issues until this thread...in hiring competent "SME"s and revamping the process so that future releases do not suffer. I know in my case, now that i know about all this...and that it keeps on happening...I am a whole lot less inclined to purchase anything new. I am still baffled that K has been compromising on encodes like iTunes or Netflix have too ..given the fact that K does not have the constraints (badnwidth, storage, etc) that those others do.

100%…. Another guess but Some of these encodes could have been done some time in advance, the fact they are still releasing titles with the same issues also kinda screams cash grab to me. Fix your issues then release titles as they are releasing things they will ultimately have to touch again
 
Honestly, name one CEO or supervisor who would let their employees make this many mistakes and still not fire anyone.

I think the fact they haven't changed their marketing while being aware of this issues means they're choosing to continue to materially mislead people in their advertising and are exposing themselves to liability. I can't imagine they'll be able to survive a class action, so I really hope they take this more seriously asap.
 
I think the fact they haven't changed their marketing while being aware of this issues means they're choosing to continue to materially mislead people in their advertising and are exposing themselves to liability. I can't imagine they'll be able to survive a class action, so I really hope they take this more seriously asap.
I recently had a few guys at work come and ask me my thoughts on K since they had recently built new home theaters and were interested. I was as honest as I could be and said that while I enjoy the system...if I knew a year ago what I know today I would not have gotten it. Its a nice system and its extremely convenient...but it is really not what its advertised to be ..especially considering the high cost.
 
I recently had a few guys at work come and ask me my thoughts on K since they had recently built new home theaters and were interested. I was as honest as I could be and said that while I enjoy the system...if I knew a year ago what I know today I would not have gotten it. Its a nice system and its extremely convenient...but it is really not what its advertised to be ..especially considering the high cost.

Same, I've recommended the system to others and I've had to let them know about the issues. Mistakes happen but the company is not doing nearly enough to demonstrate they're taking it seriously. This should be all hands on deck, and instead it seems like they're not even able to provide frequent updates on their progress.
 
The Last of Us Season 02 (UPDATE)


Looks like this was updated at some point, and no one in the "Movies Update" thread mentioned it. The incorrect boosted brightness was fixed and now matches the Blu-ray disc and MAX. Compression is worse than the Blu-ray disc, though. Clear signs of DNR and the usual block artifacts.

I think KS should implement something that lists everything that’s been updated instead of relying on users of the forum, something like "Updated on [date]" on the movie info page.

Last of us S02E01. MAX HDR_plot.png
The.Last.of.Us.S02E01.DV.MAX.WEB-DL.DoVi_L1_PLOT.png
The.Last.of.Us.S02E01.DV.MAX.WEB-DL.DoVi.L8.PLOT.100nits.trim.png
 
The Last of Us Season 02 (UPDATE)


Looks like this was updated at some point, and no one in the "Movies Update" thread mentioned it. The incorrect boosted brightness was fixed and now matches the Blu-ray disc and MAX. Compression is worse than the Blu-ray disc, though. Clear signs of DNR and the usual block artifacts.

I think KS should implement something that lists everything that’s been updated instead of relying on users of the forum, something like "Updated on [date]" on the movie info page.

View attachment 8843
View attachment 8844
View attachment 8845
I received an update for the HDR version (Strato C) on September 8.
 
I meant the movie updates thread...
Since I don’t have a server and my Strato E’s internal storage is only 500 GB, I can only find out about an update when people from this forum report it.

 
Hello all,

It's been about a week and a half since my last update, and there is much progress to share.

In my last update to this thread, I noted that we had identified two underlying causes of the "block artifacts" that have been reported, especially in bright areas of HDR content. We wanted to have a little bit more certainty around those before sharing details, but now is the time.

As I think everyone reading this thread knows, Strato V, M, and E are based around a new chipset compared to the older-generation Strato players like Strato C, S, and the original Strato. This new chip has lots of great features, like the ability to play Dolby Vision content, decode multichannel audio, and so on. It also includes a video scaling engine with lots of capabilities including image enhancement functions that are used when up-scaling content (e.g. HD played out as 4K).

Useful as those image processing features are when upscaling, you don't want them on when playing content at its native size, because they can introduce artifacts. So of course we turn them off whenever we're not scaling.

Well, it turns out that the chip had a sneaky trick up its sleeve. Readers of this thread will also know that as part of playback of letterboxed content, we blank out the part of the image that is the black letterbox bars. This is so that they appear truly black during playback, which looks better and also facilitates the function of things like auto-aspect detection in video processors. It turns out that for the chip's internal purposes, "blank out these portions of the image" is a feature of the scaler. Which means that although we have image processing turned off when the scaler is inactive, the scaler is in fact active much more often than we expected.

So, this is good news. We have made image comparisons now between the currently shipping software and an engineering build with all of the image-processing functionality disabled, and many of the "block artifacts" disappear. The image processing features also include some noise reduction that can cause a loss of grain detail, so turning those features off also restores that detail. That means that even without updating encoding, the playback of existing files will look better once we have deployed a fix to the player software to disable the unintended processing.

But, we're also making updates to our encoding. Without wading too far into the weeds on this, we have identified some improvements that can be made to our encoding "recipe" that make meaningful differences in preserving grain structure and minimizing blocky artifacts in the chroma channels of the encoded image. When combined with disablement of the inadvertent image processing, the resulting playback is significantly improved. Even on older Strato hardware that is not affected by the image processing bug, the updated encodes will deliver better quality.

Finally, an update on tools. I mentioned previously that we were working on improvements to our workflow and tools. In addition to improving our processes to better catch things like bogus HDR metadata supplied with the master files, we've also been working to improve our automated analysis of encoded movies. We already had automated tools that were run on every movie to ensure that the encoded files are preserving image detail. To that existing tool, we are now deploying a color analysis tool that will ensure that the encoded file's colors are faithful to the original. Color shifts like those that have been identified in this thread would immediately be flagged by this automation, so that corrective action can be taken. With our combined adjustments to both process and recipe, all known sources of color shift have been addressed, but this tool will provide a backstop to help ensure that we catch some future source of error. (Note: we are still looking at reported difference in red saturation on a few recent titles.)

Now, having said all of this, the obvious question is: when will we start seeing these improvements?

On the encoding front, we have already begun using an updated recipe on some recent releases with good results, so we will continue to use it on suitable content even as we continue to refine it. We will also continue making updates to titles that were affected by color shift or metadata issues, and those will naturally be processed with the latest recipes as well.

On the player side we are working on a software update that will disable the undesirable image processing. This turns out to be a bit of an invasive change, because we do need some of this functionality to be engaged when we're actually scaling content, which includes both upscaling (HD -> 4K) and certain CinemaScape modes. This makes a quick-fix change too risky to include in the next kOS software update, which is already nearing completion and getting ready for final testing. However, this work is being performed with a high priority, and we will release it in a subsequent update as soon as it has been adequately tested. We'll be able to share more about that release timeframe once the work is done and in testing.

I hope that this update will reassure you all that we are taking any and all quality issues very seriously, and the work to resolve them is being done at the highest priority.

Let me close by just making a note here that I will be on vacation for the next week, so please don't be alarmed if I'm not especially responsive here on the forums. I'll try to look in when I can, and I know John will also be watching (although please note that next Monday is also a holiday for him in Canada).

Thanks for reading this far. I'll share more updates as I have them.
 
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As I think everyone reading this thread knows, Strato V, M, and E are based around a new chipset compared to the older-generation Strato players like Strato C, S, and the original Strato. This new chip has lots of great features, like the ability to play Dolby Vision content, decode multichannel audio, and so on. It also includes a video scaling engine with lots of capabilities including image enhancement functions that are used when up-scaling content (e.g. HD played out as 4K).
OK, so that means the issue is introduced by the Strato V @Rmarci is using for his checks. (it´s not that the question has been raised already if it might be the player...)
That explains why the majority (incl. me and most of our clients) is not seeing blocking issues and the like - they are using Strato C/S players.
 
OK, so that means the issue is introduced by the Strato V @Rmarci is using for his checks. (it´s not that the question has been raised already if it might be the player...)
That explains why the majority (incl. me and most of our clients) is not seeing blocking issues and the like - they are using Strato C/S players.
Well… I use the V and I am not seeing them either. Isn’t it a display/tv/monitor VS projector thing?
 
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