What do you need to fully enjoy Strato K, 4K Cinematic, and 4:4:4 chroma?

[4:4:4]

That’s fantastic! I think that’s a vision we can all get behind. Welcome aboard!

Thanks for the welcome, Edgar. I had thought we were all going to have to live with 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 movies with bit rates that compare with UHD discs. Kudos to K for breaking away from these limitations and offering "Cinematic" quality with higher file sizes and data transfer rates!

 

[Saubriz]

Here is the answer from MadVR with regard to 4:4:4 with each of their video processors:


Core MK2 without Premium Pack — 4:4:4 input?
Yes, it can — with an important nuance around frame rate. The Core MK2 without the Premium Pack operates with HDMI 2.0 input (18 Gbps), which is sufficient for 4K24 and 4K30 4:4:4 12-bit. Where it falls short is 4K60 4:4:4 12-bit, which requires the higher bandwidth of HDMI 2.1 — and that requires the Premium Pack on the Core MK2. So the answer is yes for 4K24/30 content, and no for 4K60 4:4:4.

All versions of the Extreme — 4:4:4 input?
Here it depends on which generation. The Extreme MK1 and MK2 have HDMI 2.0 input, so they share the same limitation as the base Core MK2: 4K24/30 4:4:4 is fine, but 4K60 4:4:4 is not. The Extreme MK3 has native HDMI 2.1 input (48 Gbps), so it handles 4K60 4:4:4 12-bit without any restriction.

For your Strato K installation specifically:
The good news is that the Strato K's 4K Cinematic content — including its native 4:4:4 titles — is 4K24. That fits comfortably within HDMI 2.0's 18 Gbps, which means every Envy model, including a base Core MK2 without the Premium Pack, will accept and preserve the full 4:4:4 signal from the Strato K with no issues whatsoever.

On maintaining 4:4:4 through the entire chain:
The Envy passes through whatever chroma subsampling it receives — it does not alter it. So if the Strato K sends 4:4:4, the Envy receives 4:4:4 and processes it as such. (The Envy's chroma reconstruction from 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 only applies to content that isn't already 4:4:4 — native 4:4:4 content needs no reconstruction.) The key variable for maintaining 4:4:4 end-to-end is ensuring your source device settings and cable quality support it consistently — the Envy itself is not the limiting factor for the Strato K's signal.

Hmm, no mention of the Core MK1, which I purchased less than a month ago. But the info on the Core MK2 mentions “(<without the Premium Pack> (it) operates with HDMI 2.0 input (18 Gbps), which is sufficient for 4K24 and 4K30 4:4:4 12-bit” ……am I right to assume the Core MK1 would also have no problem with 4k24/4k30 4:4:4 12bit?

 

[DieZwei]

Hmm, no mention of the Core MK1, which I purchased less than a month ago. But the info on the Core MK2 mentions “(<without the Premium Pack> (it) operates with HDMI 2.0 input (18 Gbps), which is sufficient for 4K24 and 4K30 4:4:4 12-bit” ……am I right to assume the Core MK1 would also have no problem with 4k24/4k30 4:4:4 12bit?

The Core MK1 is HDMI-wise basically an Extreme MK2. So this applies:

The Extreme MK1 and MK2 have HDMI 2.0 input, so they share the same limitation as the base Core MK2: 4K24/30 4:4:4 is fine, but 4K60 4:4:4 is not.

 

[Wal99]

The Strato K can convert DV to HDR10 just like the V/E/M although there have been some issues with that conversion that they are trying to iron out. So if you have a non-DV display the HDR version is better. Initially K-scape said if there was a Cinematic DV version there would not be a separate HDR version like they do for standard 4K. However see quote below from MikeKobb. There now will be for some titles.

"In addition to this, I have some other news to share. We've been evaluating the availability of mezzanine files with 4:4:4 chroma information, and happily that evaluation shows that they're very broadly available. This has driven a decision to offer 4K Cinematic HDR10 in addition to 4K Cinematic SDR and 4K Cinematic Dolby Vision for movies that have 4:4:4 mezzanine files. Strato K is able to play 4K Dolby Vision with 4:2:2 color, so adding 4K Cinematic HDR10 as well will allow us to deliver 4:4:4 color with HDR for displays that can support it. We won't do HDR10 versions of 4K Cinematic if the mezzanine files are 4:2:2, because then there's no material benefit compared to converting the Dolby Vision file during playback.

So to summarize: 4K Cinematic SDR and 4K Cinematic HDR10 will support up to 4:4:4, and 4K Cinematic Dolby Vision will support 4:2:2. You'll see those HDR10 additions begin to become available soon."

So for us non techy types, maybe someone could put together a simple spreadsheet based on typical playback equipment and which format is best to use? My head is beginning to explode with all this. I have a K due to arrive this week and now I’m confused on which file to download.
My Sony x95k supports DV.

 

[Trevor]

So for us non techy types, maybe someone could put together a simple spreadsheet based on typical playback equipment and which format is best to use? My head is beginning to explode with all this. I have a K due to arrive this week and now I’m confused on which file to download.
My Sony x95k supports DV.

- If you have a TV that supports DV that's an easy one...just run the DV file. Don't get hung up on the chroma as (in simple terms) a DV source & DV display combo brings other image optimizations to the party that even 4:4:4 in HDR10 and SDR does not. If DV is not available (rare) run the HDR10 file.
- If you have a TV that doesn't support DV (ie Samsung) run the DV file (and let the Strato K convert) until HDR10 files become available

Although I know a bit of theory, projectors aren't my jam. I'll let a more experienced member address projector recommendations.

That said...I think I know what they're gonna say.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

So for us non techy types, maybe someone could put together a simple spreadsheet based on typical playback equipment and which format is best to use? My head is beginning to explode with all this. I have a K due to arrive this week and now I’m confused on which file to download.
My Sony x95k supports DV.

Great idea!

 

[rafaelsmith]

I am curious...my understanding is that most projectors ..even the JVCs that can accept a 4:4:4 signal still do their internal processing at 4:2:2?

 

[stanrozenfeld]

It's possible that it's true of most TVs. I can't verify for sure about internal processing but the 4:4:4 passthrough on my LG G5 83" disables all image processing and is meant for pc input. That implies that the actual processing is done at 4:2:2 no matter what chroma tv receives.

 

[RobT]

So based on what I'm reading, even my long in the tooth Envy Pro Mk1 should be capable of 4:4:4 4K 24?

 

[Techthusiasm]

I plan to make a video (or two) about this pretty soon showing the formats being input and handled both through my TCL 98" QM9K and through the madVR to the NZ900.

 

[rafaelsmith]

I plan to make a video (or two) about this pretty soon showing the formats being input and handled both through my TCL 98" QM9K and through the madVR to the NZ900.

Any chance you could also include a test without the MadVR...just staight to the JVC...using its FBF DTM?