Having no idea of what they are seeing could be a question. An user like me, if having not been told, he or she could be watching a content like Moana or Minecraft, then say they see a difference, which we now know are not caused by 4:4:4 4k cinema, but rather a content specific color issue
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NEWS: Strato K Movie Player with 8K capability and new "4K Cinematic" full-chroma & higher bitrate support
- Thread starter josh
- Start date
share my thoughts as an owner
When a company sells an entirely new flagship player, the improvement should not merely exist on a specification sheet. More importantly, it should be something owners can consistently and readily see in real-world viewing.
That has been the standard throughout my own upgrade journey. Moving to a JVC projector produced an unmistakable improvement. Trinnov transformed the entire theater experience. JTR delivered an immediately noticeable increase in low-frequency performance. None of those upgrades required me to freeze frames, move close to the screen, or be told where to look. The improvement announced itself.
The primary technical argument for 4K Cinematic appears to be preserving greater chroma resolution. However, chroma subsampling exists precisely because the human visual system is substantially more sensitive to spatial detail in luminance than in color-difference information. The ITU specifically notes that human vision perceives spatial changes in luminance more sensitively than changes in chrominance, allowing chroma information to be reduced while preserving the luminance resolution to which viewers are most sensitive. Published image-quality research likewise describes 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 sampling as exploiting this characteristic of human perception.
That does not mean 4:4:4 can never be distinguished. It can matter with computer text, graphics, test patterns, poor chroma reconstruction, or unusually close viewing. But for normal movie content at normal theater distances, the industry adopted 4:2:0 because the removed chroma information generally produces little or no meaningful visual penalty while greatly improving distribution efficiency. Even modern international video-coding standards continue to treat 4:2:0 as the predominant consumer format, with 4:4:4 being far less commonly used.
So my question remains: where is the clearly visible revolution?
If 4K Cinematic had been introduced as an evolving content enhancement delivered through software and firmware, I would view it very positively. But when it is packaged as the justification for a new premium-priced device, “technically more information” is not enough. The improvement needs to survive a blind comparison—not merely a marketing presentation.
When a company sells an entirely new flagship player, the improvement should not merely exist on a specification sheet. More importantly, it should be something owners can consistently and readily see in real-world viewing.
That has been the standard throughout my own upgrade journey. Moving to a JVC projector produced an unmistakable improvement. Trinnov transformed the entire theater experience. JTR delivered an immediately noticeable increase in low-frequency performance. None of those upgrades required me to freeze frames, move close to the screen, or be told where to look. The improvement announced itself.
The primary technical argument for 4K Cinematic appears to be preserving greater chroma resolution. However, chroma subsampling exists precisely because the human visual system is substantially more sensitive to spatial detail in luminance than in color-difference information. The ITU specifically notes that human vision perceives spatial changes in luminance more sensitively than changes in chrominance, allowing chroma information to be reduced while preserving the luminance resolution to which viewers are most sensitive. Published image-quality research likewise describes 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 sampling as exploiting this characteristic of human perception.
That does not mean 4:4:4 can never be distinguished. It can matter with computer text, graphics, test patterns, poor chroma reconstruction, or unusually close viewing. But for normal movie content at normal theater distances, the industry adopted 4:2:0 because the removed chroma information generally produces little or no meaningful visual penalty while greatly improving distribution efficiency. Even modern international video-coding standards continue to treat 4:2:0 as the predominant consumer format, with 4:4:4 being far less commonly used.
So my question remains: where is the clearly visible revolution?
If 4K Cinematic had been introduced as an evolving content enhancement delivered through software and firmware, I would view it very positively. But when it is packaged as the justification for a new premium-priced device, “technically more information” is not enough. The improvement needs to survive a blind comparison—not merely a marketing presentation.
I’m happy Strato K owner, but won’t invest much effort in selling someone on it, much less someone who currently has one. If someone isn’t happy with what their Strato K offers, it should be easy enough to sell it for what you paid for it. These things are on back order with high demand. Worst case, you might eat free shipping and a PayPal fee.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2024
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- 1,038
The most important aspect in that youthman video is being glossed over.
They are claiming that even regular 4k HDR content appears better resolved on the K compared to the older players. This was making it harder for the comparisons.
Check this out after 9:57
They are claiming that even regular 4k HDR content appears better resolved on the K compared to the older players. This was making it harder for the comparisons.
Check this out after 9:57
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Not only that but they were using 4k DV and C4k DV...and pretty sure there are known issues with playing DV on non-DV displays. That said, pretty sure Top Gun Maverick does not have a C4k HDR10 so thats probably why.
But yeah....what I have been looking for is some sorta blind test comparing 4k HDR10 on a V -vs- C4k HDR10 on a K...ideally without any video processor in the mix....so just AVR to JVC. I get their reasoning...less switching....which kinda invalidates true blind testing.
True blind testing is developing a way to playback the different versions without the viewer realizing they are different versions.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2024
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- 1,038
We have (unfortunately) reached a stage in human evolution that our purchasing propensity is contingent upon validations from others.
Like I have said before on numerous occasions, any individual who claims he understands creator’s (or director’s intent) is the biggest con artist. I’m most wary of such people.
Like I have said before on numerous occasions, any individual who claims he understands creator’s (or director’s intent) is the biggest con artist. I’m most wary of such people.
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deejaykorn
Member
I've read through a few threads, but didn't see this asked before. The 4K Standard Dolby Vision encodes are Profile 5. Has that changed with the new Cinematic encodes?
No targeting here. Simply stating what I’ve seen. Plenty of dealers with skin in the game posting “everyone I’ve sold to… and my family can see a difference” etc
How valuable is that compared to the video? “Trust me and my clients bro” lol… some dealers also shun any criticism of the product.. I’ve seen this particularly regarding the strato V issues…The video gives us a great real world assessment..
sure there is plenty of other types of setups… etc
But ppl can see with that setup in that video is the upgrade worth 5K? And it’s interesting the observations about the k player looking better on regular HDR content…
No, still Profile 5
People using "creator's intent" has always annoyed me. There are so many variables/steps along the way that there is simply no way for anyone to know the creator's intent......except the creator....and even then its probably different for cinema than for home. Our gear is full of ways to "modify" what we see and hear....if a certain combo makes things look/sound better to us...that is all that matters.
I have mentioned before, I was at a expo one time and visited a video processor booth where they were pushing hard on how their DTM is closer to "creators intent"...I was like...really?....by very definition DTM is making stuff up. I sat there and watched them go back and forth between DTM from the processor to JVC native DTM....I thought in some cases the processor looked better...in others the JVC....but could I tell you which was closer to to "creators intent"...no way in hell...
deejaykorn
Member
Thanks. Was that posted somewhere and I just missed it?
How about it! Better ask AI?! lol
Same for capital “C” “Creator’s intent” for me too.
I appreciate the reply, as I literally tested 4KC on a few films with my wife and kids and commented on their reactions. Though I never made a video about it. I didn't comment to sell units, but to share another subjective data point, which is the main discussion topic of this thread.
I trust their perspective. Certainly my teenagers have higher overall visual acuity than I do. So does my wife. She has proven over the years to pick up on visual quality and video anomalies that I overlook.
I can say of the number of K units I have delivered, I have not had any negative or even "meh" feedback. No one has asked to return a unit due to finding the improvement to be lacking. At the same time, as much I was excited about this product, I'm really careful to not oversell anything to anyone. It's not fun when people are disappointed about anything I might provide them, especially after spending lots of their money on expensive gear.
busybee2498
Member
The theater featured in Youthman's Video is my theater.
To be clear, I am 100% happy with the Kaleidscape K and don't regret my buying decision at all.
The K does produce a better picture, no question.
I will be selling my C and buying another K for my living room.
We built a script and just played it through on the K / No one knew what oder the clips were in
Top Gun: Maverick [4K Dolby Vision] VS Top Gun: Maverick [4K Cinematic Dolby Vision] 2 Minutes, 15 Seconds
A Minecraft Movie [4K HDR10] scene Attack on Midport Village VS Play A Minecraft Movie [4K Cinematic HDR10] scene Attack on Midport
Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga [4K Cinematic HDR10] VS Play Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga [4K HDR10] Bullets
After voting and discussions
We played movies on the V and on the C / We would then pause, switch input on the AVR comparing the C vs K
This was nothing serious, just fun.
Pretty much doing exactly what anyone would do once their player came in.
To be clear, I am 100% happy with the Kaleidscape K and don't regret my buying decision at all.
The K does produce a better picture, no question.
I will be selling my C and buying another K for my living room.
We built a script and just played it through on the K / No one knew what oder the clips were in
Top Gun: Maverick [4K Dolby Vision] VS Top Gun: Maverick [4K Cinematic Dolby Vision] 2 Minutes, 15 Seconds
A Minecraft Movie [4K HDR10] scene Attack on Midport Village VS Play A Minecraft Movie [4K Cinematic HDR10] scene Attack on Midport
Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga [4K Cinematic HDR10] VS Play Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga [4K HDR10] Bullets
After voting and discussions
We played movies on the V and on the C / We would then pause, switch input on the AVR comparing the C vs K
This was nothing serious, just fun.
Pretty much doing exactly what anyone would do once their player came in.
I have no doubt Strato K is superior to C, we are talking about two genreration of potential chipset difference there, which should be ruled out. The Question is whether the 4K cinematic format can deliver noticeable visual improvement on movie that viewers can see. I don’t see improvement on my screen after comparing 4k vs 4k cinematic, and comparing with Strato V.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2024
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- 1,038
Awesome theater you have out there. Thanks for doing this.
Do you feel that even a regular HDR (non cinematic) file appears/performs better on the K compared to the C and the V?
Confirming....your setup is JVC NZ800 + Trinnov Altitude 32...no video processor?
Your assessment and thoughts on the Strato K is about as relative to my own that I have been able to find...different projector...and AVR/processor(thou I do not see how the AVR/processor can make any difference with this specific comparison). Your projector being new and brighter than mine yet you struggling to justify the upgrade is helpful to me since I get the distinct feeling that the brigher the display the more folks are noticing C4k improvements...hence all the positive feedback from OLED owners. My setup is even worse since I am at the extreme of screen size and throw distance for the RS1100...so already on the verge of not having enough brightness. My screen is 1.3 gain so maybe that helps some but doubtful....its a really budget screen to being with.
Strato C doesn’t even do Dolby Vision. are you seeing improvement because of Dolby Vision or 4k cinematic?
Yes, NZ800+Trinnov Alt 32. No video processing in between.