NEWS: Strato K Movie Player with 8K capability and new "4K Cinematic" full-chroma & higher bitrate support

[Techthusiasm]

Jaremy, have you had a chance to do any more comparisons since yesterday? Thoughts?

So, good news! I showed my family two movies on the Kaleidescape Strato K, comparing 4K Cinematic DV to 4K DV in our living room on the TCL QM9K. We used Minecraft and Top Gun: Maverick. This was my wife, son, and daughter.

I started playback of each film, skipped to chapter 2, and let it run for ~20 seconds. Then went back and forth between formats without indicating which should be the better one or explaining anything about the formats at all.

All three of them identified 4Kc over 4K immediately as being "better" each time. Comments included more real, vivid, richer color, clarity, stable, detailed, and more. My son was the only one that even have an idea what 4Kc might do, so there was no bias to look for color or clarity.

Nice results! I concur with their assessment as well. I think the 4Kc format was noticable. I'll be downloading 4Kc of every film I have in that format and deleting my prior versions, of course.

This whole thing is a winner, IMO. Who can argue with a new, high fidelity format for home theater and a clear delineation going forward that Kaleidescape is superior to discs.

 

[cinelife]

Agree completely with the above.

Jim

 

[Techthusiasm]

@Techthusiasm It would be great if you do a podcast including the esteemed @Rmarci (In case he agrees) or with another subject matter expert to unravel the alphabet soup of what various files such as Cinematic SDR HDR DV with or without a VP do in terms of picture quality (technically) ... every time I make up my mind that one file would be best in my set up I read a post and it is totally different.
Recent post by @Rmarci suggest Cinematic SDR is the most as per director's intent.
Finally people can then compare various files and decided for them what looks best in their setup and to their taste.

I'm chatting with the folks at madVR for a podcast, hopefully soon, and am planning on discussing these video formats and how they relate to the Envy processing engine, inputs, and outputs as a key part of the talk. TBD when.

 

[Techthusiasm]

Agree completely with the above.

Jim

I should mention, I was actually more eager to try this in the living room because it's pure K to TV via direct HDMI input. The theater chain going through the madVR, it's sometimes hard to know what to attribute to the source and what to attribute to the processor in terms of the final overall results you're looking at, especially as I run MotionAI all the time too.

 

[todo]

I'm chatting with the folks at madVR for a podcast, hopefully soon, and am planning on discussing these video formats and how they relate to the Envy processing engine, inputs, and outputs as a key part of the talk. TBD when.

That is great... please keep us Lumagen VP owners also in mind even though the Radiance cannot pass through 4:4;4 but Artisan will and it is not here yet.
To further complicate matters, file choice can also depend on what equipment you have such as K - VP - Projector LCOS or DLP Yada Yada.

 

[edthomp]

That is great... please keep us Lumagen VP owners also in mind even though the Radiance cannot pass through 4:4;4 but Artisan will and it is not here yet.
To further complicate matters, file choice can also depend on what equipment you have such as K - VP - Projector LCOS or DLP Yada Yada.

Big +1 on including Lumagen in that discussion. The madVR/Envy coverage will be great, but the reality is most Lumagen owners right now are on the Radiance Pro (4:2:2 pipeline), not the Artisan — which isn't shipping yet — so guidance aimed at that chain is what a lot of us actually need day-to-day.

And great point on equipment-dependent file choice. Even within 'Lumagen,' the answer shifts depending on Radiance Pro vs. Artisan, and then again by projector tech. A clear breakdown of which 4K Cinematic file to grab for a Radiance Pro + non-DV projector chain — factoring the 4:2:2 conversion and the new HDR10 4:4:4 option — would be hugely valuable. It's exactly the kind of thing that's currently pieced together across a several threads.

Would happily listen to a whole segment just on that.

 

[Imakeller]

I get my K tomorrow and am wondering the same. Not sure everything in the chain (TV, AVR, and MadVR) will support it.

Congrats! It’s worth doing some spec checking to see what your equipment and cables are rated for. Some folks with high end 2.1 capable chains (Trinnov, MadVR, JVC NZ900) are reverting to 2.0 as a workaround. 2.1 will be a requirement for 8K, but, beyond that, it’s generally frustrating to invest in getting to an entirely 2.1 8K capable chain and run into a glitch. I’m sure a firmware update will be forthcoming once it gets sorted out.

P.S. Check out K-scape’s helpful online Installation Guide for the Strato K if you haven’t already.

 

[brodricj]

Sorry in advance if I've missed a previous answer to this, but how many 4Kc movie titles can I squeeze on a 960GB Strato K hard drive?

 

[Broncowrangler]

Sorry in advance if I've missed a previous answer to this, but how many 4Kc movie titles can I squeeze on a 960GB Strato K hard drive?

About 7 on an average. But if you happen to download Return of the king (extended-228gb) then we are looking at 5-6.

 

[Sasquatch]

K-scape has to be thrilled by the burst of early sales with the K! I hope production is keeping up.

The only real glitch I’m seeing on the forums is some inability to establish a 2.1 signal chain.

I’ll add my experience because I think the HDMI 2.1 side of the Strato K is underbaked right now.

I have 3 Strato Ks in the house with 5 more on order, and the one in my main media room has been a problem. The chain is:

Strato K > Trinnov Altitude 32 with HDMI 2.1 board > LG G5

The issue is inconsistent HDMI behavior. Sometimes (rarely) I get proper 4K HDR / Dolby Vision. Sometimes it falls back to 1080p. Sometimes I get no picture at all. In the no-picture state, the Strato K status screen may either show that everything is fine, including 4K Dolby Vision and HDCP 2.3, or it may say no display is present.

The prior Strato E worked fine in this same room.

After spending a lot of time with support, their recommendation continues to be limiting the Strato K to HDMI 2.0 / 18Gbps. I understand why that works as a temporary workaround, because current 4K playback does not require FRL / 24Gbps. But I do not think that should be accepted as the final answer for a newly released player marketed as HDMI 2.1 / 24Gbps capable.

Kaleidescape was also pretty blunt that they would not commit to making the HDMI 2.1 / FRL handshake work reliably when the display is not an 8K display even if everything in the chain meets HDMI 2.1 specs. I specifically asked for that commitment. My understanding of the response was that it may or may not get fixed as they continue testing and developing their FRL logic, but ensuring HDMI 2.1 / FRL works on 4K displays is not being treated as a priority because 4K Cinematic content can fit within HDMI 2.0 / 18Gbps.

That is the part I find frustrating. If the product is marketed and sold as HDMI 2.1 / 24Gbps capable, I do not think “your display is only 4K, so limit it to HDMI 2.0” should be considered a complete resolution. It may be a workaround, but it is not the same thing as the advertised HDMI 2.1 capability working properly.

Another concerning data point: during development/testing, Kaleidescape apparently used a Trinnov that did not have the HDMI 2.1 board. This came directly from them, not via a 3rd party. They have only recently gotten a Trinnov with the HDMI 2.1 board in hand. Given how many high-end Kaleidescape customers use Trinnov processors, I would have expected a Trinnov with the HDMI 2.1 board to be one of the obvious validation platforms before release.

I also tested the same Trinnov-to-LG path with an RTX 5090 gaming PC, and it handled 4K/120Hz, 10-bit RGB, HDR, and VRR through the Altitude even with an additional 30M fiber hdmi cord that I don't have in the strato k chain. That does not prove the Strato K is solely at fault, because HDMI handshakes, EDID, HDCP, FRL training, cabling, and device-specific behavior all matter. But it does suggest the display path itself is capable of carrying a high-bandwidth HDMI 2.1 signal.

At this price point, the product should just work in a properly built HDMI 2.1 chain. “Limit it to HDMI 2.0 because 4K does not need HDMI 2.1” may get people up and running, but I do not think owners should treat that as fixed.

Personally, I would be cautious if your reason for buying the K is future-facing HDMI 2.1 / 8K capability. For normal 4K playback, limiting to 18Gbps may be fine as a temporary workaround. But I would not personally accept it as a final solution. Owners should keep pushing Kaleidescape to deliver stable HDMI 2.1 / FRL behavior rather than accepting HDMI 2.0 mode as the long-term answer.

 

[lujan]

So, good news! I showed my family two movies on the Kaleidescape Strato K, comparing 4K Cinematic DV to 4K DV in our living room on the TCL QM9K. We used Minecraft and Top Gun: Maverick. This was my wife, son, and daughter.

I started playback of each film, skipped to chapter 2, and let it run for ~20 seconds. Then went back and forth between formats without indicating which should be the better one or explaining anything about the formats at all.

All three of them identified 4Kc over 4K immediately as being "better" each time. Comments included more real, vivid, richer color, clarity, stable, detailed, and more. My son was the only one that even have an idea what 4Kc might do, so there was no bias to look for color or clarity.

Nice results! I concur with their assessment as well. I think the 4Kc format was noticable. I'll be downloading 4Kc of every film I have in that format and deleting my prior versions, of course.

This whole thing is a winner, IMO. Who can argue with a new, high fidelity format for home theater and a clear delineation going forward that Kaleidescape is superior to discs.

Great news! The only thing is now I'm going to have to rewatch everything that is in 4K Cinematic and I'm currently at around 90 titles.

 

[Imakeller]

I should mention, I was actually more eager to try this in the living room because it's pure K to TV via direct HDMI input. The theater chain going through the madVR, it's sometimes hard to know what to attribute to the source and what to attribute to the processor in terms of the final overall results you're looking at, especially as I run MotionAI all the time too.

The various 4K Cinematic file formats (SDR, 4:4:4 HDR10, 4:2:2 DV) being offered by K-scape do raise questions for consumers. I think it’s generally considered that SDR is best for projection and if a flatpanel supports DV then use DV. I’m wondering now if that’s true? I know you compared 4K DV vs 4K Cinematic DV on your TCL QM9K, but I wonder how SDR and HDR10 files compare?

 

[brodricj]

.. in my main media room...

I'd like to see that!

 

[Sasquatch]

Congrats! It’s worth doing some spec checking to see what your equipment and cables are rated for. Some folks with high end 2.1 capable chains (Trinnov, MadVR, JVC NZ900) are reverting to 2.0 as a workaround. 2.1 will be a requirement for 8K, but, beyond that, it’s generally frustrating to invest in getting to an entirely 2.1 8K capable chain and run into a glitch. I’m sure a firmware update will be forthcoming once it gets sorted out.

P.S. Check out K-scape’s helpful online Installation Guide for the Strato K if you haven’t already.

I'm not sure I would hold out hope on a firmware update fixing the HDMI 2.1 issues. I escalated fairly high given my problems, and I was told directly that a successful 2.1 handshake on a 4K screen is not a priority and that they would not commit to that working at some point in the future. They would only commit if the panel is an 8K panel regardless of whether or not all boards in the chain are HDMI 2.1 capable.

 

[Imakeller]

I’ll add my experience because I think the HDMI 2.1 side of the Strato K is underbaked right now.

I have 3 Strato Ks in the house with 5 more on order, and the one in my main media room has been a problem. The chain is:

Strato K > Trinnov Altitude 32 with HDMI 2.1 board > LG G5

The issue is inconsistent HDMI behavior. Sometimes (rarely) I get proper 4K HDR / Dolby Vision. Sometimes it falls back to 1080p. Sometimes I get no picture at all. In the no-picture state, the Strato K status screen may either show that everything is fine, including 4K Dolby Vision and HDCP 2.3, or it may say no display is present.

The prior Strato E worked fine in this same room.

After spending a lot of time with support, their recommendation continues to be limiting the Strato K to HDMI 2.0 / 18Gbps. I understand why that works as a temporary workaround, because current 4K playback does not require FRL / 24Gbps. But I do not think that should be accepted as the final answer for a newly released player marketed as HDMI 2.1 / 24Gbps capable.

Kaleidescape was also pretty blunt that they would not commit to making the HDMI 2.1 / FRL handshake work reliably when the display is not an 8K display even if everything in the chain meets HDMI 2.1 specs. I specifically asked for that commitment. My understanding of the response was that it may or may not get fixed as they continue testing and developing their FRL logic, but ensuring HDMI 2.1 / FRL works on 4K displays is not being treated as a priority because 4K Cinematic content can fit within HDMI 2.0 / 18Gbps.

That is the part I find frustrating. If the product is marketed and sold as HDMI 2.1 / 24Gbps capable, I do not think “your display is only 4K, so limit it to HDMI 2.0” should be considered a complete resolution. It may be a workaround, but it is not the same thing as the advertised HDMI 2.1 capability working properly.

Another concerning data point: during development/testing, Kaleidescape apparently used a Trinnov that did not have the HDMI 2.1 board. This came directly from them, not via a 3rd party. They have only recently gotten a Trinnov with the HDMI 2.1 board in hand. Given how many high-end Kaleidescape customers use Trinnov processors, I would have expected a Trinnov with the HDMI 2.1 board to be one of the obvious validation platforms before release.

I also tested the same Trinnov-to-LG path with an RTX 5090 gaming PC, and it handled 4K/120Hz, 10-bit RGB, HDR, and VRR through the Altitude even with an additional 30M fiber hdmi cord that I don't have in the strato k chain. That does not prove the Strato K is solely at fault, because HDMI handshakes, EDID, HDCP, FRL training, cabling, and device-specific behavior all matter. But it does suggest the display path itself is capable of carrying a high-bandwidth HDMI 2.1 signal.

At this price point, the product should just work in a properly built HDMI 2.1 chain. “Limit it to HDMI 2.0 because 4K does not need HDMI 2.1” may get people up and running, but I do not think owners should treat that as fixed.

Personally, I would be cautious if your reason for buying the K is future-facing HDMI 2.1 / 8K capability. For normal 4K playback, limiting to 18Gbps may be fine as a temporary workaround. But I would not personally accept it as a final solution. Owners should keep pushing Kaleidescape to deliver stable HDMI 2.1 / FRL behavior rather than accepting HDMI 2.0 mode as the long-term answer.

I totally agree with you. A lot of well-equipped, power users seem to be encountering this. It does seem like something that should have shown up in validation testing. “Just use 2.0” isn’t going to cut it as anything but a temporary workaround. Maybe I’m naive, but I think meeting the HDMI 2.1 specifications, and promoting it as such, should mean the ability to support a 2.1 signal chain. I have to believe K-scape will address this fairly soon.

 

[Sasquatch]

I totally agree with you. A lot of well-equipped, power users seem to be encountering this. It does seem like something that should have shown up in validation testing. “Just use 2.0” isn’t going to cut it as anything but a temporary workaround. Maybe I’m naive, but I think meeting the HDMI 2.1 specifications, and promoting it as such, should mean the ability to support a 2.1 signal chain. I have to believe K-scape will address this fairly soon.

That was not something they would commit to me would occur. I'll leave names out of it, but it was in discussions more senior than L1/L2 support.

 

[Imakeller]

I'm not sure I would hold out hope on a firmware update fixing the HDMI 2.1 issues. I escalated fairly high given my problems, and I was told directly that a successful 2.1 handshake on a 4K screen is not a priority and that they would not commit to that working at some point in the future. They would only commit if the panel is an 8K panel regardless of whether or not all boards in the chain are HDMI 2.1 capable.

That was not something they would commit to me would occur. I'll leave names out of it, but it was in discussions more senior than L1/L2 support.

Well, I’m seeing multiple JVC NZ900 owners running into this issue. The NZ900 is 8K capable, so K-scape better get to work. The handshake/2.1 stability is certainly fixable. K-scape may be spread thin at the moment (production, file conversions, other updates) and want to “kick the can down the road” on 2.1 interoperability, but I don’t think it will fly with customers expecting the advertised 2.1 capability.

 

[rafaelsmith]

Glad to hear all the positive reactions to the Strato K.....my FOMO is kicking into overdrive.....now to work in getting wife to approve ....hard sell...

 

[Imakeller]

Glad to hear all the positive reactions to the Strato K.....my FOMO is kicking into overdrive.....now to work in getting wife to approve ....hard sell...

What’s that saying — it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission?

 

[rafaelsmith]

What’s that saying — it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission?

Yeah....that worked the 1st time!