Store "Hole" Feedback

[LoveCinema]

I was surprised to see that War Games is only HD. Any insights on a 4K update? Also, $25 seems crazy for this older title - what's up with that?!?

There are two answers to why a title may not be on K in a higher quality available elsewhere:

Physical vs. Digital: Physical and digital rights often don't align which is particularly true with boutique label releases. See a 4K disc from Arrow, Shout, Kino, etc.? Chances are it's only available in HD digitally. This is easy to check using Apple's TV App (iTunes) or Fandango at Home (Vudu). Is the movie in HD on those stores? Then that's all that's available to K.

K's Limited Resources: The second reason is that when compared to other digital stores, K is actually quite small and has limited resources. They can neither afford to license all available titles nor spend time on all of the encodes, so decisions have to be made. If you've got a title you'd really like to see, you can get an email off to: movies@kaleidescape.com

P.S. Wargames is a Shout 4K release and disc exclusive for the time being. MGM (the owning studio) generally does retain some level of digital rights, so it's possible we could see it in 4K digitally at some point in time. However, it'll likely be missing something from the disc release, generally HDR/Dolby Vision. (See Robocop, Bill & Ted titles, etc. as examples.)

 

[BrianC]

There are two answers to why a title may not be on K in a higher quality available elsewhere:

Physical vs. Digital: Physical and digital rights often don't align which is particularly true with boutique label releases. See a 4K disc from Arrow, Shout, Kino, etc.? Chances are it's only available in HD digitally. This is easy to check using Apple's TV App (iTunes) or Fandango at Home (Vudu). Is the movie in HD on those stores? Then that's all that's available to K.

K's Limited Resources: The second reason is that when compared to other digital stores, K is actually quite small and has limited resources. They can neither afford to license all available titles nor spend time on all of the encodes, so decisions have to be made. If you've got a title you'd really like to see, you can get an email off to: movies@kaleidescape.com

P.S. Wargames is a Shout 4K release and disc exclusive for the time being. MGM (the owning studio) generally does retain some level of digital rights, so it's possible we could see it in 4K digitally at some point in time. However, it'll likely be missing something from the disc release, generally HDR/Dolby Vision. (See Robocop, Bill & Ted titles, etc. as examples.)

Thanks for the thoughtful answer. That's a great tip about checking iTunes/Fandango for the comparable resolution.

 

[deyorew]

I understand they are available in HD only, but do we know if they are the recent masters of these 4k titles which have typically been spruced up quite a bit compared to previous HD masters.

 

[LoveCinema]

I understand they are available in HD only, but do we know if they are the recent masters of these 4k titles which have typically been spruced up quite a bit compared to previous HD masters.

The general answer is no, usually what is distributed digitally is an older product that has already been in place for a while. If a new master is taken for a 4K UHD Blu-ray and the company includes a remastered Blu-ray in the package, then its likely that Blu-ray is also superior to what is available digitally.

If there's a movie you like that has received the 4K treatment from a boutique label, and you really want to see it in the best quality, you're going to want to grab that disc. I have hundreds of these use cases which keep K from being a more complete solution for me, even though there's nothing K can do about it.

 

[joey_corleone]

I was somewhat surprised to see “Superman: The Movie” (1978) has DTS-HD MA 5.1 on K while the 4k UHD disc has had Atmos since the 2018 release I believe. All the other Reeves era movies have Atmos. I emailed K in an effort to get it updated if possible

 

[Rasalom]

I was somewhat surprised to see “Superman: The Movie” (1978) has DTS-HD MA 5.1 on K while the 4k UHD disc has had Atmos since the 2018 release I believe. All the other Reeves era movies have Atmos. I emailed K in an effort to get it updated if possible

Unfortunately, there are quite a few like this

 

[joey_corleone]

Unfortunately, there are quite a few like this

Yeah. I don’t really understand it to be honest. I see movie updates on my system all the time, usually something being updated every week.

I initially thought OK once in a while if a title gets an audio update to atmos or a rare fix for something broken that makes sense. But, often I see things like a 2 channel PCM track being added, like today for “Top Gun”. Surely the 2 channel PCM track was on the blu ray and 4k disc and the studio has not really changed it. So, the question is why all the sudden do they get a 2 channel track for it, like why weren’t these things there to begin with?

Titles without Atmos when it is available in Atmos on physical media for …8 years is not a good thing for K and does not gel with their “ultimate movie platform” image IMHO.

I know they will just say well hey man we give you what the studio gives us. I don’t care, do better. That doesn’t make sense for the consumers paying what we pay for these systems. My 2 cents

 

[thrillcat]

Yeah. I don’t really understand it to be honest. I see movie updates on my system all the time, usually something being updated every week.

I initially thought OK once in a while if a title gets an audio update to atmos or a rare fix for something broken that makes sense. But, often I see things like a 2 channel PCM track being added, like today for “Top Gun”. Surely the 2 channel PCM track was on the blu ray and 4k disc and the studio has not really changed it. So, the question is why all the sudden do they get a 2 channel track for it, like why weren’t these things there to begin with?

Titles without Atmos when it is available in Atmos on physical media for …8 years is not a good thing for K and does not gel with their “ultimate movie platform” image IMHO.

I know they will just say well hey man we give you what the studio gives us. I don’t care, do better. That doesn’t make sense for the consumers paying what we pay for these systems. My 2 cents

It's not always K's choice. Oftentimes whoever holds the rights to the content holds back various elements to drive sales in a specific channel. Other times they decide not to provide a lossless Atmos track for digital services, Dolby Vision may be a disc exclusive, or an in-house subscription streaming service.

The split between digital and physical distribution rights, and the boutique studios doing the various remasters can very often muddy the waters of availability, and it's generally on purpose.

 

[joey_corleone]

It's not always K's choice. Oftentimes whoever holds the rights to the content holds back various elements to drive sales in a specific channel. Other times they decide not to provide a lossless Atmos track for digital services, Dolby Vision may be a disc exclusive, or an in-house subscription streaming service.

The split between digital and physical distribution rights, and the boutique studios doing the various remasters can very often muddy the waters of availability, and it's generally on purpose.

Thanks. I love your YT content too : )

I don’t doubt all of this. It still seems odd that 3 out of 4 movies in that set all have Atmos and 1 doesn’t. Shrug…all we can do is email and hope.

 

[LoveCinema]

I was somewhat surprised to see “Superman: The Movie” (1978) has DTS-HD MA 5.1 on K while the 4k UHD disc has had Atmos since the 2018 release I believe.

One important thing is not to compare disc to digital. Tons of other complications there. Do other digital stores have Atmos? If so, only then does it potentially fall into K’s lap. For this one, other stores DO have Atmos, So, it’s a matter of if it’s lossy only so K won’t use it, or K hasn’t received it, or K still has an older version of the movie (see Rocky). The answers to these questions can only be provided by K.

 

[MarvinTheAndroid]

One important thing is not to compare disc to digital.

I broadly agree with most of your post all except for this particular statement.

The problem is with this statement is that K have largely brought such comparisons upon themselves. They have been careful to try and market themselves as a platform rather than a streaming service and they have in the past proclaimed their 4k exclusives which were unavailable on disc and their bit rate / file size superiority also over discs.

When you make statements such as those K have made then they can't really cherry pick when the comparison no longer suits them. If there is a conceptual problem here then I am afraid it it one of K's own making. As such it is a problem that I have little sympathy for.

 

[LoveCinema]

I broadly agree with most of your post all except for this particular statement… The problem is with this statement is that K have largely brought such comparisons upon themselves.

All good here. My statement wasn’t directed at marketing but the actual abilities of a digital movie store and what a K owner should do. I don’t mean “K can’t do anything here” specifically as a defense of K, but rather as guidance to a fellow K owner to not bother making a request or hoping it shows up. The disc is better, if it’s an important movie for you go buy the disc.

 

[MarvinTheAndroid]

All good here. My statement wasn’t directed at marketing but the actual abilities of a digital movie store and what a K owner should do. I don’t mean “K can’t do anything here” specifically as a defense of K, but rather as guidance to a fellow K owner to not bother making a request or hoping it shows up. The disc is better, if it’s an important movie for you go buy the disc.

I totally get that you were being pragmatic and offering real world advice to a problem caused, ate least in part to perceptions created by K's overambitious marketing.

But I feel it does get to the nub of the point for many people. We can all buy discs without K but many of us bought K so that we wouldn't have to buy discs or at least buy much. much, much fewer of them. Yet the easy and generally cost effective solution to many of the problems is to just buy discs.

So if we are buying discs then what is the point of K?

I personally feel the ratio of discs I buy compared to K is just far too high especially given the cost. I suspect many of the relatively new influx of Strata V/E/M folks feel much the same. I also suspect that many of them is they could make their decision to buy into K now probably wouldn't and it is only the financial penalties of leaving that keep them here.

This is worrying as such feelings held by enough people can only harm the likelihood of other people buying into K. I have no evidence to support these assumption other than anecdotal evidence from a minority and a minority that tend to be more vocal at that and quite rightly so.

 

[ahard]

I totally get that you were being pragmatic and offering real world advice to a problem caused, ate least in part to perceptions created by K's overambitious marketing.

But I feel it does get to the nub of the point for many people. We can all buy discs without K but many of us bought K so that we wouldn't have to buy discs or at least buy much. much, much fewer of them. Yet the easy and generally cost effective solution to many of the problems is to just buy discs.

So if we are buying discs then what is the point of K?

I personally feel the ratio of discs I buy compared to K is just far too high especially given the cost. I suspect many of the relatively new influx of Strata V/E/M folks feel much the same. I also suspect that many of them is they could make their decision to buy into K now probably wouldn't and it is only the financial penalties of leaving that keep them here.

This is worrying as such feelings held by enough people can only harm the likelihood of other people buying into K. I have no evidence to support these assumption other than anecdotal evidence from a minority and a minority that tend to be more vocal at that and quite rightly so.

This convo comes up a lot. It has been said time and time again that K works really well for newly released movies, especially from studios that have pretty much stopped bringing new movies to 4k Blu ray outside of the blockbusters (see Disney, NBC U and others). There are and will be tons more of those movies than the other categories.

Once you get past that new movie releases, it can be hit or miss on K for a variety of reason.....some which are unknown. So while I can understand your point, K serves a large portion of people like myself that primarily watch new release movies. But I can understand your perspective. Personally, I've watched 2 years worth of new release movies on K and a good portion of those aren't available on 4K blu ray or they were for a limited time and now they're not. There's an unspoken value prop in that sort of thing that makes me feel good about using K.

 

[LoveCinema]

I totally get that you were being pragmatic and offering real world advice to a problem caused, at least in part to perceptions created by K's overambitious marketing.
This is worrying as such feelings held by enough people can only harm the likelihood of other people buying into K. I have no evidence to support these assumption other than anecdotal evidence from a minority and a minority that tend to be more vocal at that and quite rightly so.

I've mentioned it before, but I think the transition from strictly disc to K is a bit of a rough one. If you're a digital collector, or someone that collects both, then there's a lot of things you'll be familiar with before K: Earlier release dates, limited assets, limited availability, etc. So, everything associated with a transition from physical to digital doesn't get lumped into the K transition. K has its own issues* and they can get lost in that mix.

K doesn't have the new Excalibur 4K. Neither does Apple with their $4T valuation. K only has the theatrical cut of The Exorcist and it's SDR. Yeah, that's on purpose and that's all K. That's where our attention needs to be focused.

*K issues? 1. Limited Resources. 2. Lack of title cultivation in the K Store. (Every week looks like a dartboard was involved.)

 

[Wbhendrix]

I’ve never quite understood why some movies must be purchased and cannot be rented. I’m sure it’s a studio thing… but still, why?

 

[ahard]

I’ve never quite understood why some movies must be purchased and cannot be rented. I’m sure it’s a studio thing… but still, why?

I asked the same question regarding the movies from AMC. I still don't know the answer....probably bc only the folks inside of K know the answer. If I had to guess, I'd say that those studios specify in their contracts with K that K users can only purchase the studio(s) movies.

 

[Amblinfan]

Where is Fight Club??? Everyone else has their digital file updated.

 

[LoveCinema]

Where is Fight Club??? Everyone else has their digital file updated.

Apple accidentally released it early and has pulled it. No one else has it (?). We should see it on its physical release date next month.

 

[DoubleDown]

Memento (2000)
Cocoon (1985)