Special Features/Bonus content/Extras NOT included for some content

[dnoonie]

I just bought the 1080 Blu-ray of Beetlejuice Beetlejuice for the bonus content with the digital code. The plan is to use the 1080 BD it to do a D2D upgrade to the 4k Dolby Vision version and be close to the same price as purchasing the UHD disc. This is an experiment since I don't know the D2D price of the title, it would be nice if it were listed. Unfortunately I'll still have the clutter of having a disc to manage. But this will still mean purchasing fewer discs.

This worked out really well! I ended up saving about $5 over purchasing the UHD disc. I'll need to explore more alternatives for bonus content. Thanks for everyone's input/help!

 

[LoveCinema]

Indeed where are all the 4k K exclusives that were once bragged about but have been diminishing over time. In fact when was the last K exclusive? Are any still relevant given the rate of releases on other platforms?

These actually still occur regularly, they're just different than they used to be.

Previously, a 4K exclusive might occur when a studio has prepped a 4K master but haven't made it available via disc or wide-release streaming (yet). This still applies to things like Die Hard sequels, National Treasure movies, etc. However, even these were subject to various qualifications as when they were finally released there were often further improvements, updated color grading, etc. that never made their way back to K (Taxi Driver, Lawrence of Arabia, Mask of Zorro, etc.).

Nowadays, with the explosion of boutique labels, the number of 4K disc exclusives has skyrocketed. However, that doesn't mean K isn't getting exclusives anymore. K is still leading in disc-quality exclusives for direct-to-video offerings. Most of these types of titles don't have disc releases planned, and will only get them if a movie becomes a hit on streaming. Recent examples: The Surfer, Shadow Force, On a Wing and a Prayer, The Underdogs, and On Swift Horses.

Sure, the argument could be made that the 4K disc exclusives are sought after items while the disc-less direct-to-video titles aren't. Fair. But, K is still the exclusive source for the highest quality audio/video of hundreds of films that grows weekly.

 

[mariyoshikong]

When the K store was first announced the extras were one of the biggest selling point for me; the titles on the store were effectively a digital version of the physical disc. I remember looking through various titles at that time and being blown away at all of the extras, specifically 'A Bug's Life' which I recall having every single one of the disc extras included. As time went on, I believe the distribution channels changed from the physical distribution side of the house to the digital distribution side used by providers like iTunes. Once that transition happened, I started to notice that extras have been spotty at best (e.g. when all of the Pixar titles updated to 4K, most of the extras were lost). This is probably due to some combination of licensing costs, unavailability of extras from the distributer and the fact that K is now encoding their own version of all of the extras instead of just pointing at the ones on the disc image.

 

[LoveCinema]

This is probably due to some combination of licensing costs, unavailability of extras from the distributer and the fact that K is now encoding their own version of all of the extras instead of just pointing at the ones on the disc image.

Yup. I think it's primarily the first one. It's common for other digital stores to have Extras when K doesn't, and I can't imagine a studio denying K access just to K. I'd imagine K made a call at some point to effectively drop these, they didn't see a big hit to sales, and they've largely kept it up.

I imagine the pain associated with the Strato E/M/VHD Update process has also taught them some lessons. They have at least hundreds of titles where they have to re-encode the Extras back in HD. Given that they'll likely hit the one year mark without finishing the movies, that's gotta sting.

 

[dnoonie]

Extras seem to be handled inconsistently, it makes me wonder if the folks at K' are heading toward something new.
The Continental: From the World of John Wick. Extras were only with the HD version so I downloaded both the 4k and HD versions of the show.
Turning Red, from Pixar which usually has great extras. Extras were a separate Turning Red (Supplemental) download. This would accommodate the folks that don't want extras.
Raya and The Last Dragon, from Disney which doesn't usually have good extras, these have been very good so far as I've viewed them. Same Supplemental download as Turning Red.
Live Die Repeat: Edge of Tomorrow. Extras only with the SD version so I downloaded both.
Beetlejuice. Ditto of Live Die Repeat.

Is K' heading toward the (Supplemental) download model? If so that would be great for everyone.

 

[MikeKobb]

Is K' heading toward the (Supplemental) download model?

To some extent, yes. As part of the process of updating HD content for Strato V, M, and E, extras are being re-packaged into a separate download if they were previously part of the main movie download file.

This won't affect movies where the extras are part of the SD version (because those aren't going through the update process), but SD downloads are quite small in general anyway.

Having some way to specify that you do or do not want extras auto-downloaded is on our to-do list, but I can't say when we may get to that given other priorities.

 

[Edgar]

Honestly, I feel that it is like flogging a dead horse although I do agree with everything you have said.

For me K has 3 glaring issues ignoring all the niggling little problems that have persisted for what seems like an eternity.

Firstly they seem to actively promote the best audio/video argument yet this is often not the case. Quite often we find titles with missing soundtracks and transfers that simply should not have passed QA such as the horrible Lethal Weapon and Breakfast Club transfers. Yes these may get corrected over time as new 4k transfers become available but this doesn't excuse the fact that the HD transfers should never of been made available in the state they were and in some cases still are especially when since then better sources have been made available on other platforms

The second and my main issue is with alternative cuts. K have said several times, and seem to promote the idea, that they aim to provide an experience as close as possible to the directors intent. Surely, at the most basic level. audio and video quality aside, this has to mean the directors preferred cut above all else. Yet time and time again these are omitted, forgotten about or just seemingly an afterthought. I sort of understand not having multiple cuts of the same movie but if this is going to be the case it should be the one cut that the director has stated is their preferred cut if they have made such a statement and if the cut is available. Presenting a cut that is not the directors preferred cut is hardly in keeping with providing an experience as close as possible to the directors intent.

Finally, and something that underpins the above points, is the issue of resources and sometimes the commercial viability of some releases. Isn't the reason why we pay such eye watering amounts for storage to provide for future developments, ongoing maintenance of the infrastructure and to subsidise the availability of content? I was astounded to read a comment a while back expressing incredulity about the sensitivity to movie prices on the store. When you are paying a significant premium for the hardware, and in particular storage, of course people aren't going to be thrilled at the prospect of paying a premium for the content. The best that K can hope for is satisfaction with price parity to other delivery channels. Rant aside, if I am paying such a large premium for the hardware I expect things like Star Trek TMP Directors Cut to be made available whether or not K are making any money on the movie or not. I simply can't believe that there isn't sufficient demand to make such a title commercially viable but that is not the point here. The point is what am I paying a premium on the hardware for if there are insufficient resources to provide such a movie? Indeed where are all the 4k K exclusives that were once bragged about but have been diminishing over time. In fact when was the last K exclusive? Are any still relevant given the rate of releases on other platforms?

Anyway, this rant shall be my last and I shall retire to the shadows in silence.

However I will say that as far as I am concerned K is a platform for people who love to watch movies not a platform for people who love movies.

If I was to go a little further I would also add that it is a great way to watch theatrical cuts of movies with an audio/video quality that is comparable with other platforms.

Toodle pip folks.

I agree with your observations. I see your points as clear facts. I think a big part of how this settles depends on one’s expectations. For me, no single platform is a silver bullet. But K provides the majority of my preferred movie viewing, so that makes it the best for me. I talk a lot about discs and Plex here, but it’s largely to complete the picture for fans of the best 4K presentation. Which is what I consider myself. Not a K enthusiast or a Plex enthusiast, but a movie enthusiast. And I do feel like K and Plex together meet my needs.

 

[Edgar]

When the K store was first announced the extras were one of the biggest selling point for me; the titles on the store were effectively a digital version of the physical disc. I remember looking through various titles at that time and being blown away at all of the extras, specifically 'A Bug's Life' which I recall having every single one of the disc extras included. As time went on, I believe the distribution channels changed from the physical distribution side of the house to the digital distribution side used by providers like iTunes. Once that transition happened, I started to notice that extras have been spotty at best (e.g. when all of the Pixar titles updated to 4K, most of the extras were lost). This is probably due to some combination of licensing costs, unavailability of extras from the distributer and the fact that K is now encoding their own version of all of the extras instead of just pointing at the ones on the disc image.

I agree here as well. I’ll add that I feel the quality of those extras even on disc took a dip during the time extras became scarce in the digital distribution era. I feel that “making of” documentaries were at a high point on Laserdisc and early DVD. Interestingly as we return to a niche/hobbyist corner, we’re seeing the documentaries from Arrow, Koch, and other independent boutiques as well as fan backed/created documentaries, returning to that classic level of editorial quality. The competition here between platforms, and the limits they operate within, is causing the quality of the content to shine as each platform enables. The best versions of long movies like Avengers and Dune 1&2 are on Kaleidescape. Boutique discs pick up the directors cuts and commission new making-ofs. iTunes pushes the release window up for digital platforms like K. And that’s all fantastic in my book.

Edit - corrected error saying Plex when I meant to say Kaleidescape

 

[MarvinTheAndroid]

So what is the solution?

1. K sim[ply need to up their game and do better.
2. We need to pay more for the hardware to subsidise the less commercial aspects of movies such as alternative cuts and extras.
3. We need to pay more for individual movies to include alternative cuts and extras.
4. Alternative cuts and extras are paid extras over and above the cost of a movie and partly subsidised by the hardware costs.
5. Find an alternative platform (I buy more discs by an order of magnitude than K so unintentionally this is the one I seem to have ended up with)
6. Something else?

 

[MarvinTheAndroid]

I agree with your observations. I see your points as clear facts. I think a big part of how this settles depends on one’s expectations. For me, no single platform is a silver bullet. But K provides the majority of my preferred movie viewing, so that makes it the best for me. I talk a lot about discs and Plex here, but it’s largely to complete the picture for fans of the best 4K presentation. Which is what I consider myself. Not a K enthusiast or a Plex enthusiast, but a movie enthusiast. And I do feel like K and Plex together meet my needs.

I seem to be different in that most movies I buy now simply aren't available on K or are only available in a lower quality format than the disc (I have lost count of the number of movies I mistakenly paid to downgrade on K). Those that do eventually become available just usually aren't worth the price of even D2D since I have already ripped them and can access them just as easily as on K and arguably with a nicer, at least to me anyway, interface.

I think everyone's different tastes in movies will determine their experience and level of satisfaction. Personally for me the only thing stopping me from selling K is the fact I will lose the money I have already spent on my K library and will end up with a large number or titles that I will have to rebuy on disc after previously giving them away. I wish I had ripped my movies before giving them away but hindsight and all that.

 

[Edgar]

These actually still occur regularly, they're just different than they used to be.

Previously, a 4K exclusive might occur when a studio has prepped a 4K master but haven't made it available via disc or wide-release streaming (yet). This still applies to things like Die Hard sequels, National Treasure movies, etc. However, even these were subject to various qualifications as when they were finally released there were often further improvements, updated color grading, etc. that never made their way back to K (Taxi Driver, Lawrence of Arabia, Mask of Zorro, etc.).

Nowadays, with the explosion of boutique labels, the number of 4K disc exclusives has skyrocketed. However, that doesn't mean K isn't getting exclusives anymore. K is still leading in disc-quality exclusives for direct-to-video offerings. Most of these types of titles don't have disc releases planned, and will only get them if a movie becomes a hit on streaming. Recent examples: The Surfer, Shadow Force, On a Wing and a Prayer, The Underdogs, and On Swift Horses.

Sure, the argument could be made that the 4K disc exclusives are sought after items while the disc-less direct-to-video titles aren't. Fair. But, K is still the exclusive source for the highest quality audio/video of hundreds of films that grows weekly.

I don’t even think it’s that bad. K has many 4K exclusives that are must-haves for me. There’s Under the Skin, Office Space, Napoleon Dynamite, Tucker the Man and His Dream, The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951), Planet of the Apes, and pretty much every new release is a timed exclusive on K. Sure there are more overall exclusives on disc, but sitting around waiting for discs is something I’m glad to reduce to a minimum.

I seem to be different in that most movies I buy now simply aren't available on K or are only available in a lower quality format than the disc (I have lost count of the number of movies I mistakenly paid to downgrade on K). Those that do eventually become available just usually aren't worth the price of even D2D since I have already ripped them and can access them just as easily as on K and arguably with a nicer, at least to me anyway, interface.

I think everyone's different tastes in movies will determine their experience and level of satisfaction. Personally for me the only thing stopping me from selling K is the fact I will lose the money I have already spent on my K library and will end up with a large number or titles that I will have to rebuy on disc after previously giving them away. I wish I had ripped my movies before giving them away but hindsight and all that.

Yes, good point, one’s tastes are critical here. I can see how K has less appeal when your core collection isn’t even available on K. For me it’s about 50-50. Half of my current release purchases are on K and half are on disc. But I’m also keeping an eye on the K catalog, and now that I have all the older discs I want, my older released purchases are more 90-10 in favor of K. Plus, there’s the whole issue with discs going up to $60, waiting for them to release, waiting for them to ship, being out of stock, and the manual labor of moving them around inside your home to play or rip them (yes, I know, I’ve fallen under the spell of convenience).

I do feel the pain of re-buying discs you’ve given away. My wife, bless her soul, told me to stop doing that and just crate them up. I’m so glad she did, so I can go get that one documentary that a redditor pointed me to. Plus, if anything ever goes wrong with either of my server systems, I still have my discs.

 

[Edgar]

So what is the solution?

1. K sim[ply need to up their game and do better.
2. We need to pay more for the hardware to subsidise the less commercial aspects of movies such as alternative cuts and extras.
3. We need to pay more for individual movies to include alternative cuts and extras.
4. Alternative cuts and extras are paid extras over and above the cost of a movie and partly subsidised by the hardware costs.
5. Find an alternative platform (I buy more discs by an order of magnitude than K so unintentionally this is the one I seem to have ended up with)
6. Something else?

I think we already have a bit of 3. Both 4K SE versions of The Abyss and Aliens were annoying double purchases for me on K, while they were packaged together on the 4K disc releases.

But for the most part, my solution is #6. Accept the limits of both systems and use both to address the other’s gaps. This way I have 100% of the best quality of everything I want. There’s a bit of clunk in dealing with two systems, but I accept that.

 

[LoveCinema]

I think we already have a bit of 3. Both 4K SE versions of The Abyss and Aliens were annoying double purchases for me on K, while they were packaged together on the 4K disc releases.

Yeah, but this isn't something K (or any digital store) can control. The studios dictate this, like most other things. I've come to favor this solution as studios forcing K to do multiple encodes with no further compensation will likely end up with K simply passing on Extras. However, if K can at least recoup some money from the additional effort, then we all win. So, I'll happily plunk down for another cut. (In fact, nearly all of the titles in my list above are separate listings on digital stores.)

Now, the Abyss/Aliens Special Editions were a complete mess but that was purely K's handling of the titles.

 

[dnoonie]

Yeah, but this isn't something K (or any digital store) can control. The studios dictate this, like most other things. I've come to favor this solution as studios forcing K to do multiple encodes with no further compensation will likely end up with K simply passing on Extras. However, if K can at least recoup some money from the additional effort, then we all win. So, I'll happily plunk down for another cut. (In fact, nearly all of the titles in my list above are separate listings on digital stores.)

Now, the Abyss/Aliens Special Editions were a complete mess but that was purely K's handling of the titles.

Spider Man No Way Home regular cut $5 D2D the Extended Cut version also $5 D2D. I got both for $10. So in some cases K' sopports this.

 

[mariyoshikong]

So what is the solution?

1. K sim[ply need to up their game and do better.
2. We need to pay more for the hardware to subsidise the less commercial aspects of movies such as alternative cuts and extras.
3. We need to pay more for individual movies to include alternative cuts and extras.
4. Alternative cuts and extras are paid extras over and above the cost of a movie and partly subsidised by the hardware costs.
5. Find an alternative platform (I buy more discs by an order of magnitude than K so unintentionally this is the one I seem to have ended up with)
6. Something else?

One other (expensive) option that I have considered is adding a premier system and a costar. Apparently the extras that are on the discs appear inline with the downloaded versions of movies in the UI. Since most physical releases have the extras on the HD bluray this would allow you to seamlessly add extras for films that do not have them on the K store. The main reason I haven't done this is because I still need to maintain Plex for physical 4K releases that are not on K.