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NEWS: Price Increase Coming July 1st.
- Thread starter cinelife
- Start date
I get price hikes for the current Tariff issues. I work for a consumer manufacturing company and am well aware of the impact of the Tariffs, currency exchange rates, and changes of many other international business costs.
Additionally places like China unrelated to tariffs how been raising costs of some raw materials, especially ones where they provide nearly the world supply and can charge whatever they want.
My problem with these kinds of price hikes in general which justifiably make sense; when the situation turns around is that company’s (not speaking about K here) rarely lower price back.
Additionally places like China unrelated to tariffs how been raising costs of some raw materials, especially ones where they provide nearly the world supply and can charge whatever they want.
My problem with these kinds of price hikes in general which justifiably make sense; when the situation turns around is that company’s (not speaking about K here) rarely lower price back.
CINERAMAX IOPH
Well-known member
The thing is K baby, why do you have to raise prices just after I sell my alto, dv-700, tera 24 and strato -10 ( to recycle the demo pool)? I could have had an extra 5 in my pocket! LOL.
When i get my next strato -s I will refer to this post to claim grandfathering. LOL
When i get my next strato -s I will refer to this post to claim grandfathering. LOL
That’s a lot of it to sell, some of it quite recent products.
Why did you sell it all and what did you replaced it all with ?
CINERAMAX IOPH
Well-known member
I am in constant development on the quest for ultimate immersion, 2 years ago I pivoted my focus from projection to walls, but as you know before they were rolled out the price blew up astronomically, I am doing the California Wall Based Home Cinema of the future, it has proven to be a Gargantuan Task of Quixotic proportions, delayed by 1.5 years from original estimates based on a very handsome fee that was fixed, thus partially I needed the money until completion, but also I have a younger girlfriend that her movie tastes run towards the twilight, shades of Gray, and fast and furious. I need more intellectual stimuli than those provide.
Keeping those titles offline is comforting.
Then there is the contents immersive audio, the decision to go full blown on K was based on the audio quality of the Sony, Warner, Paramount Atmos mixes which populate my demo scripts, to me Kaleidescape is necessary to properly implement these High-End Systems , I only have 2 rooms in my condo showroom that need a player. Moving to this downtown Miami locale gave me 1 gig speeds to download.
I am very disappointed at the Immersive mixes from Disney, way too many stems being folded into objects, very few object pirouettes mixed because everything is so saturated by sounds simultaneously from every direction over saturated and you can tell these were mixed on qsc horns. I find that the mixes from Universal and Fox are generally underwhelming too when up mixed in neural x, house for peculiar children and x-men.1st class are exception, i need more research but that is the overall impression. That probably means that the majority of those mixes even if available in atmos would be generally weak in the Disney regard. Because good theatric atmos mixed released in DTS-HD in K contains sufficient object spectacle that was mixed down to 7.1 and thus can be retrieved spectacularly in neural-x. Still, there will be 20% native atmos that will sound good, but if a movie had a great theatrical atmos track, that spectacle can be retrieved in neural-x.
I have a 35k movie library at the store, titles purchased mainly seeking great demo scenes, I also have a similarly priced collection of every quadraphonic music ever recorded except classical, DVD-a and bluray multichannel titles were stored in the dv-700 changer. Since hacking mechanically an oppo i can now play those titles plus sacd iso too. Looking to morph the library to roon. so no need for the dv-700 and alto.
I will end up with my strato s 12, and another one, but i need more class a immersive audio demo content. Also i don't want low IQ titles on tap in case my date wants to put me through that pain.
So there it is, full disclosure!!
Keeping those titles offline is comforting.Then there is the contents immersive audio, the decision to go full blown on K was based on the audio quality of the Sony, Warner, Paramount Atmos mixes which populate my demo scripts, to me Kaleidescape is necessary to properly implement these High-End Systems , I only have 2 rooms in my condo showroom that need a player. Moving to this downtown Miami locale gave me 1 gig speeds to download.
I am very disappointed at the Immersive mixes from Disney, way too many stems being folded into objects, very few object pirouettes mixed because everything is so saturated by sounds simultaneously from every direction over saturated and you can tell these were mixed on qsc horns. I find that the mixes from Universal and Fox are generally underwhelming too when up mixed in neural x, house for peculiar children and x-men.1st class are exception, i need more research but that is the overall impression. That probably means that the majority of those mixes even if available in atmos would be generally weak in the Disney regard. Because good theatric atmos mixed released in DTS-HD in K contains sufficient object spectacle that was mixed down to 7.1 and thus can be retrieved spectacularly in neural-x. Still, there will be 20% native atmos that will sound good, but if a movie had a great theatrical atmos track, that spectacle can be retrieved in neural-x.
I have a 35k movie library at the store, titles purchased mainly seeking great demo scenes, I also have a similarly priced collection of every quadraphonic music ever recorded except classical, DVD-a and bluray multichannel titles were stored in the dv-700 changer. Since hacking mechanically an oppo i can now play those titles plus sacd iso too. Looking to morph the library to roon. so no need for the dv-700 and alto.
I will end up with my strato s 12, and another one, but i need more class a immersive audio demo content. Also i don't want low IQ titles on tap in case my date wants to put me through that pain.
So there it is, full disclosure!!
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CINERAMAX IOPH
Well-known member
I had 290 such discs in mine, actually, I will be retrieving them out to ship the last box out today.
Guess what? it may sound better than the oppo, better clocked, read error correction on one box buffering on the other box, no bass management circuit to mess the chain.
Guess what? it may sound better than the oppo, better clocked, read error correction on one box buffering on the other box, no bass management circuit to mess the chain.
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cinelife
Administrator
Staff member
Forum Administrator
Moderator
⭐️⭐️PATRON⭐️⭐️
Authorized Kaleidescape Dealer
Just a reminder, today (June 30th) is last day at the current prices. Component prices increase effective midnight tonight. If you had planned to order at current prices, and do not have a dealer, or have an unresponsive dealer, contact me for assistance in getting an order in place before the increase.
Jim
CineLife
(CINELIFELLC@GMAIL.COM)
808-721-7839 (I'm in Florida, call anytime.)
Jim
CineLife
(CINELIFELLC@GMAIL.COM)
808-721-7839 (I'm in Florida, call anytime.)
So what is the increase in price ?
When I see price increases like this I chalk them up to simple greed. Supporting servers and PC’s in our enterprise (over a million endpoints), the cost just isn’t going up on these type components. With an annual budget $15M in our budget for refreshed systems and their various components, the prices, even with tariffs, have not increased. Our complete F terminal in Atlanta and JFK are Crestron to the max; not a single component increase. Endpoints at every reservation desk worldwide; no system or component increases.
When I hear anyone that is not on the board of K say that these price increases have nothing to do with finances, I laugh. Every price increase is a financial matter. Now, K can say what they want and convince their dealers to repeat it, but the fact remains, the parts that they use are not getting more expensive. Blockbuster did the same thing when they were trying to stay afloat. I wish no ill will on K, but the number of affluent customers that are willing to pay what they are asking is dropping. It’s a trend they can’t control. The only thing they can do to cover cost and the good people they employ is to raise prices. Simple economics says raising prices for the same technology, and where newer players are taking over (i.e., Disney), mean pressure is on to survive. This is a survival tactic at its core. But like Blockbuster, they will eventually run out of their type of customer at the current service level and price point. I love what K has done with the technology they’ve provided in the past, but they are no longer distinguishable from other players in the field “except” for the larger price point; that doesn’t bode well in my opinion. Where in the past for all the ventures I’m in I’d promote K as a great solution, today their prices have increased but their product isn’t really better. Good luck with that strategy. You can only remain there if you are well funded; which from what I’ve heard, it isn’t.
This is just my opinion. Agreement isn’t required. Love ya K.
When I hear anyone that is not on the board of K say that these price increases have nothing to do with finances, I laugh. Every price increase is a financial matter. Now, K can say what they want and convince their dealers to repeat it, but the fact remains, the parts that they use are not getting more expensive. Blockbuster did the same thing when they were trying to stay afloat. I wish no ill will on K, but the number of affluent customers that are willing to pay what they are asking is dropping. It’s a trend they can’t control. The only thing they can do to cover cost and the good people they employ is to raise prices. Simple economics says raising prices for the same technology, and where newer players are taking over (i.e., Disney), mean pressure is on to survive. This is a survival tactic at its core. But like Blockbuster, they will eventually run out of their type of customer at the current service level and price point. I love what K has done with the technology they’ve provided in the past, but they are no longer distinguishable from other players in the field “except” for the larger price point; that doesn’t bode well in my opinion. Where in the past for all the ventures I’m in I’d promote K as a great solution, today their prices have increased but their product isn’t really better. Good luck with that strategy. You can only remain there if you are well funded; which from what I’ve heard, it isn’t.
This is just my opinion. Agreement isn’t required. Love ya K.
cinelife
Administrator
Staff member
Forum Administrator
Moderator
⭐️⭐️PATRON⭐️⭐️
Authorized Kaleidescape Dealer
Can't speak to your experience, but prices have increased with many of the smaller companies in this industry. I'd estimate that I've seen increases from 60% of the manufacturer's we've dealt with over the past year, so K's no different in that regard.
Jim
Jim
CINERAMAX IOPH
Well-known member
Reason Crestron is not hiking up prices is because they are under extreme competitive pressure. Probably are overstocked. My Opinion #Ido#1onCrestronFoundersGrave.
Working on the finance side for a large Japanese consumer electronics company in the US who imports products to the US from Japan and other Asian (and non Asian) countries I can tell you are costs have gone up; not just for tariffs (notable) but raw material costs (less notable). As others have mentioned in their posts we have done everything possible to control price increases, including taking it to the bottom line. No one wants to be the first among competitors to raise prices.
This price increase is not good news for any of us that loves Kaliedescape. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find new clients willing to make the investment. 15 years ago if you wanted access to your DVD quality library Kaliedescape was the only choice. Now there are many choices and the only weapon of differentiation is the quality vs streaming. Bandwidth and storage are becoming less expensive and Kaliedescape is becoming more expensive. This cannot continue indefinitely
Opinion is one thing. Details is another.
https://pcpartpicker.com/products/pricedrop/
These are the direct to consumer prices. Commercial prices and in bulk prices are quite a bit less.
This is just one of about 45 free and paid metrics in this industry that can be used to determine fluctuations in pricing. These type metrics are available for every product available; pop open the box (if not under warranty) and take a snapshot. You’ll find that K systems are elaborate PC’s with an embedded OS and enhanced graphics no different from an Apple TV but has a larger storage capacity.
I saw a comment that Crestron is no longer tops in this space. That doesn’t ring true except for the Integrators and customers that can no longer afford their pricing either. They don’t raise prices they; they just come out with newer more innovative products. But they have the commercial space locked up pretty good. So the consumer space doesn’t have to make as much. K is primarily consumer space based.
Again this is just my opinion based upon the facts I see being where I sit; you view can be different - it’s ok
. Also being in the entertainment industry, and in and out of friends houses nationwide that have way more money than I, K is no longer mentioned as the go to system as it once was. I was in a “Spellings” house hold a month ago and they had turned off the old K system they had and replaced it with an Apple TV and an Android box. My point is, K doesn’t have the allure it once had but their pricing says different. Only the market will tell. . I’m expecting another price increase within the next year. You heard it here first.
Love ya K
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
https://pcpartpicker.com/products/pricedrop/
These are the direct to consumer prices. Commercial prices and in bulk prices are quite a bit less.
This is just one of about 45 free and paid metrics in this industry that can be used to determine fluctuations in pricing. These type metrics are available for every product available; pop open the box (if not under warranty) and take a snapshot. You’ll find that K systems are elaborate PC’s with an embedded OS and enhanced graphics no different from an Apple TV but has a larger storage capacity.
I saw a comment that Crestron is no longer tops in this space. That doesn’t ring true except for the Integrators and customers that can no longer afford their pricing either. They don’t raise prices they; they just come out with newer more innovative products. But they have the commercial space locked up pretty good. So the consumer space doesn’t have to make as much. K is primarily consumer space based.
Again this is just my opinion based upon the facts I see being where I sit; you view can be different - it’s ok
. Also being in the entertainment industry, and in and out of friends houses nationwide that have way more money than I, K is no longer mentioned as the go to system as it once was. I was in a “Spellings” house hold a month ago and they had turned off the old K system they had and replaced it with an Apple TV and an Android box. My point is, K doesn’t have the allure it once had but their pricing says different. Only the market will tell. . I’m expecting another price increase within the next year. You heard it here first.Love ya K
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
CINERAMAX IOPH
Well-known member
As long as dealers keep on following the atmos residential guidelines, or the trinnov universal with wide azymuths and bass management at 85, and using 6-inch woofers and under overhead, they will not be able to outdo the best atmos mix rooms.
Here is the first OVERHEAD speaker designed NOT TO RESTRICT the tops content in Movies from some studios in the store. Part of Dante Network audio 44 channels Bi amped 1,300 watts, 12 inch woofer, amt ribbon.
Using my scripts and the unique full bandwidth setup that we have here it will be easy to sell at minimum a strato 6 loaded with recommended content. I have never been a big K multiroom guy since i only care about theaters and media rooms, but the fact is that the CEDIA Industry has no clue how to exploit kaleidescapes unique full bandwidth sound capabilities and how to set up a great audio immersion field with surreal bubble separation. I had the director of Dolby Cinema Products worldwide here and he confirmed what I am saying. That a home system with curated Kscripts (something he wished Dolby could have for research) can outdo the best ATMOS mix rooms. WITH the lesser object count HOME ATMOS!!! Warner, SONY, PARAMOUNT (pet semetery), Lionsgate all have top tier demo content that not only creams streaming atmos but the best UHD Players as well.
So either the Spellings and their like reasoning ( race to the lowest common denominator) gang are complete and utter MORONS! OR the dealers and CEDIA are at fault for following the wrong rules.
Here is the first OVERHEAD speaker designed NOT TO RESTRICT the tops content in Movies from some studios in the store. Part of Dante Network audio 44 channels Bi amped 1,300 watts, 12 inch woofer, amt ribbon.
Using my scripts and the unique full bandwidth setup that we have here it will be easy to sell at minimum a strato 6 loaded with recommended content. I have never been a big K multiroom guy since i only care about theaters and media rooms, but the fact is that the CEDIA Industry has no clue how to exploit kaleidescapes unique full bandwidth sound capabilities and how to set up a great audio immersion field with surreal bubble separation. I had the director of Dolby Cinema Products worldwide here and he confirmed what I am saying. That a home system with curated Kscripts (something he wished Dolby could have for research) can outdo the best ATMOS mix rooms. WITH the lesser object count HOME ATMOS!!! Warner, SONY, PARAMOUNT (pet semetery), Lionsgate all have top tier demo content that not only creams streaming atmos but the best UHD Players as well.
So either the Spellings and their like reasoning ( race to the lowest common denominator) gang are complete and utter MORONS! OR the dealers and CEDIA are at fault for following the wrong rules.
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K has always been mostly a consumer product. So they have to adapt to consumer ways or be left behind. Today’s “average” consumer just isn’t going to spend $18k on a streaming device. Especially when they have to turn around and buy the media they want to see on it. C’mon K think!! If the “Spellings” type customers aren’t doing it either, and they have money to throw away, how can K thrive. They had a good thing when they allowed the customer to interact by adding their own movies. But now all media must come through K and at a premium.
The point about the audio quality is only relevant to those that pay close attention to that. The average customer will take better video quality over audio any day. Who needs 44 channels of audio at home?? Really? Stop!!
I no longer have a high end theater room in my house. I installed Crestron, centralized and racked all 32 sources from Ks to Apple TVs to Roku to Android boxes to XBOXes and Cable and Sat boxes into 17 rooms (and even to the pool) with 4K displays. There is no way all these rooms or locations will meet or need to meet the acoustic requirements for Dolby Atmos. Additionally, families are different in that everyone is particular in what they watch today. This “whole family watches the same thing together” movement is almost out. With all the media choices so are the various choices of family members. So while I love the great acoustics, centralized theaters in homes is a thing of the past. With gig internet speeds, distributed and personalized (low cost) HD media is the wave.
K get your surf board or watch from the sand.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The point about the audio quality is only relevant to those that pay close attention to that. The average customer will take better video quality over audio any day. Who needs 44 channels of audio at home?? Really? Stop!!
I no longer have a high end theater room in my house. I installed Crestron, centralized and racked all 32 sources from Ks to Apple TVs to Roku to Android boxes to XBOXes and Cable and Sat boxes into 17 rooms (and even to the pool) with 4K displays. There is no way all these rooms or locations will meet or need to meet the acoustic requirements for Dolby Atmos. Additionally, families are different in that everyone is particular in what they watch today. This “whole family watches the same thing together” movement is almost out. With all the media choices so are the various choices of family members. So while I love the great acoustics, centralized theaters in homes is a thing of the past. With gig internet speeds, distributed and personalized (low cost) HD media is the wave.
K get your surf board or watch from the sand.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk