Who knows, maybe they are? Why I say that is they've had a pretty good deal going for a while on the KVAULT-10 trade-up which has probably left them with a warehouse full of traded in 100 disc storage vaults. Maybe they intend re-badging these as a stand-alone vault suitable for the C1? It will probably be a good fit, and economic. Does the C1 have a USB port?
-
Thanks for visiting the Kaleidescape Owners' Forum
This forum is for the community of Kaleidescape owners, and others interested in learning about the system, equipment, services, and the company itself.It is run by a group of enthusiastic Kaleidescape owners and dealers purely as a service to this community.
This board is not affiliated in any way with Kaleidescape, Inc.
For official technical support, product information, or customer service, please visit www.kaleidescape.com -
You are currently in "Guest" mode and not logged in with a registered account.
The forum is free to use and most of the forum can be used by guests who are not registered....
... but we strongly encourage you to register for a full account. There is no cost to register for a full account.
Benefits of registering for a full account:
- Participate in the discussions! You must have a registered account to make posts on the forums. You will be able to start your own thread on a topic or question, or you can reply to other threads/discussions.
- Use the "Conversation" feature (known as "private messaging" on other forums) to communicate directly with any of the other users here.
- Access the Files area. The "resources" area of the forum contains many "Favorite Scene" and Script files that can dramatically increase the enjoyment of your Kaleidescape system. Go directly to great scenes in your favorite movies, created by other owners, and add automation to playback of your system with Scripts.
- You won't see this annoying notice at the top of every screen!😊
NEWS: New Product: Cinema One
- Thread starter cinelife
- Start date
Who knows, maybe they are? Why I say that is they've had a pretty good deal going for a while on the KVAULT-10 trade-up which has probably left them with a warehouse full of traded in 100 disc storage vaults. Maybe they intend re-badging these as a stand-alone vault suitable for the C1? It will probably be a good fit, and economic. Does the C1 have a USB port?
I doubt they will be sending out the KVAULT-10 units. They are not of the same quality that one expects from the Kaleidescape brand and to rebadge them as a K-component would deprecate their brand considerably.
They could have waited until having a full line of new products ready before releasing, I am glad they did not. This product is way overdue. I hope we see modifications to the pricing of the existing line to capitalize on the momentum started by the Cinema One. My guess is you will see some new add ons and I hope they allow the 1Us and 3U's to integrate.
It wouldn't surprise me if Cinema One and the Premier line never integrate.
I *hope* that they NEEDED a product like Cinema One to get their install base numbers way up so that the movie houses will take them more seriously. Otherwise they've taken valuable development resources away from Premier in the name of a product that doesn't do squat for me. If that turns into more movie houses signing on to the download service, great. And it better, because Cinema One is in a chicken-and-egg scenario right now...with no *good* way to do Blu-Ray (I mean come on, I just don't see many people buying C1 and a vault given current pricing) and HD quality downloads being limited to one studio, there just isn't much awesome content for it unless you're still perfectly happy with DVDs. And I just can't see a LOT of people rushing out to buy Cinema One who are perfectly happy with DVDs.
For those wishing that K had allowed the thing to have external storage so you could add space easily *and* so that you could do RAID, I think the answer to that is simple...K hasn't changed their philosophy that they need TIGHT control of the hard drive situation on these machines. They likely do a LOT of hard drive testing and that includes firmware tweaks. So unless they change that philosophy/requirement, don't expect them to ever allow you to use some *other* storage product on their systems.
And why not RAID to begin with? Price point. My guess is they had research that suggests they had to his this price point and for the people they are trying to draw in, the RAID angle wasn't as big of a deal. Especially when you remember that your download information *is* stored with K and if you need to re-download you can do that at no charge. It's not exactly like "cloud" storage, but in a sense it is. I think they're more targeting download customers with this device than people ripping DVDs or adding BR vaults. Given that the DVD rippers can just re-rip the few of those they have, the vault would cover BR, and you can re-download purchases...well, the "need" for RAID isn't that great. Sure, you're down for a couple days if you lose one drive, but come on, do you really *need* high availability in your movie server?
For what I paid for my system I expect it, yeah. But for $4k? Nope.
--Donnie
I *hope* that they NEEDED a product like Cinema One to get their install base numbers way up so that the movie houses will take them more seriously. Otherwise they've taken valuable development resources away from Premier in the name of a product that doesn't do squat for me. If that turns into more movie houses signing on to the download service, great. And it better, because Cinema One is in a chicken-and-egg scenario right now...with no *good* way to do Blu-Ray (I mean come on, I just don't see many people buying C1 and a vault given current pricing) and HD quality downloads being limited to one studio, there just isn't much awesome content for it unless you're still perfectly happy with DVDs. And I just can't see a LOT of people rushing out to buy Cinema One who are perfectly happy with DVDs.
For those wishing that K had allowed the thing to have external storage so you could add space easily *and* so that you could do RAID, I think the answer to that is simple...K hasn't changed their philosophy that they need TIGHT control of the hard drive situation on these machines. They likely do a LOT of hard drive testing and that includes firmware tweaks. So unless they change that philosophy/requirement, don't expect them to ever allow you to use some *other* storage product on their systems.
And why not RAID to begin with? Price point. My guess is they had research that suggests they had to his this price point and for the people they are trying to draw in, the RAID angle wasn't as big of a deal. Especially when you remember that your download information *is* stored with K and if you need to re-download you can do that at no charge. It's not exactly like "cloud" storage, but in a sense it is. I think they're more targeting download customers with this device than people ripping DVDs or adding BR vaults. Given that the DVD rippers can just re-rip the few of those they have, the vault would cover BR, and you can re-download purchases...well, the "need" for RAID isn't that great. Sure, you're down for a couple days if you lose one drive, but come on, do you really *need* high availability in your movie server?
For what I paid for my system I expect it, yeah. But for $4k? Nope.
--Donnie
I understand what you are saying about not connecting to an existing 1u or 3u system, BUT will it connect to my KSCAPE account and allow me to download purchased movies to both systems?
This would be a great solution for my vacation house, i dont need all of my content but id have a small selection available for rainy days.
This would be a great solution for my vacation house, i dont need all of my content but id have a small selection available for rainy days.
I actually meant to mention this in my post above as another possible market.
My guess is the answer is "no" because of the possibility for abuse (taking a previous example, buy one for your parents and just punch in your account info to give them access to your library). That's a shame, though, because I have a vacation house as well that I'd love to have some way to have movies at without having to buy them again. I mean I *can* just re-rip DVDs both places, but that is a dead-end solution with Blu-Ray and downloads being unavailable.
--Donnie
cinelife
Administrator
Staff member
Forum Administrator
Moderator
⭐️⭐️PATRON⭐️⭐️
Authorized Kaleidescape Dealer
Warning Pedant mode in operation!
I thought it was maximum of 5 systems registered to one account rather than "5 additional systems".
I will get my coat.
Not sure if this has been asked/answered yet, but I saw some earlier comments in the thread about the KVault-10 and whether Kaleiedscape had a warehouse full of them, etc. I've asked -- and confirmed -- that the Cinema One will NOT work with the Dacal vault. I agree that this seems like it would be a perfect fit pricewise, but Kaleidescape didn't feel the quality was up to where they wanted it to be, and I got the sense that -- at least for now -- building a less expensive DV700 is not in the cards. Have you heard that they are offering the DV700 bundled with a Cinema One through dealers for an $7995 package? That is $1500 off the DV700 (when purchased together) making for a pretty exciting package, and a reason to buy from a dealer and not the Kaleidescape store. I'm scheduled to get a review sample, and if there are any particulars you'd like me to check out, just lay them out here.
Thanks!
John
Thanks!
John
cinelife
Administrator
Staff member
Forum Administrator
Moderator
⭐️⭐️PATRON⭐️⭐️
Authorized Kaleidescape Dealer
Okay, sorry, you are correct, it is a total of five systems. (Trying to answer with 2 year old twins screaming in my ears......
) The language recently used by a trusted K employee was "clients can buy a movie once from the store and download it to 5 systems registered to them." (and yes, it does include the new C1)
Feel better?
D) Jim
cinelife
Administrator
Staff member
Forum Administrator
Moderator
⭐️⭐️PATRON⭐️⭐️
Authorized Kaleidescape Dealer
Actually $7,990. (I'm learning from "JDS."
)Seriously, not a bad deal, allows for the addition of another C1 going forward (and another 100 BR discs) and when you outgrow the two C1's you can sell them, keep the DV700 and move to a larger Server.
Jim
Actually $7,990. (I'm learning from "JDS."
Seriously, not a bad deal, allows for the addition of another C1 going forward (and another 100 BR discs) and when you outgrow the two C1's you can sell them, keep the DV700 and move to a larger Server.
Jim
An interesting deal, but it would make a lot more sense if the C1 had dual 4TB drives rather than single drives. As it is now, with a single C1 the amount of space available for Blu-Rays in the DV700 equals:
100 (Total available space)
less number of Blu-Ray downloads
less 1/6 of DVD's imported/downloaded
That number for most folks looking to spend 8K on this package is going to be pretty small, so what's the value of have say 10 or 20 Blu-Ray discs available in the DV700 ready to watch through the C1, while the other rest of the discs on the DV700 can't be played?
Even if you add a second C1, you could easily still end up with hundreds of Blu-Rays in the DV700 that couldn't be played through either C1. And by that point, your up to 12K for a rather limited movie server.
Again, the DV700 and C1 doesn't seem to match up well, but a KVault10/C1 or C1 with dual drive/DV700 would seem to make a lot more sense.
Yeah, but I can now order replacement cartridges for a 1U, 3U, or even 5U server, and swap them out myself. I'm not asking K-Scape to let me use my own drives, just the ability to replace them in-house so I don't have to send the entire system back for a routine repair. If that means shelling out $1300 for the 4TB cart, so be it, I have no problem with that.
For $4k, you're appealing to the media consumer with a decently sized collection, but not a budget for a 1U/3U system from the Premiere Line, and isn't afraid to get their hands dirty with setup or maintenance. And yeah, I know they hand pick hard disks, but for $4000, a RAID 1 array should've been mandatory from the get go since it barely adds to the manufacturing cost (and if they wanted to keep profit margins, bump the price to $5k; you still have a competitively priced product!). Yes, you pay for the K experience, but that's never an excuse for half-arsed hardware like the C1 appears to be from my perspective.
Don't get me wrong, I would kill for a proper Premiere system. Problem is, I don't have the salary or permanent housing to afford such a setup (I rent a studio at $1600, and earn ~$62000 pre-taxes). So the C1 is supposed to appeal to my demographic: we know who K-Scape are, we're familiar with what the experience offers, and we're willing to pay for a scaled-down setup provided we don't sacrifice too much functionality.
And sacrificing RAID 1 and user serviceable hard disks was too much of a sacrifice for me. I refuse to re-rip my 500+ disc collection when that single drive bites the dust in three to five years and out of warranty.
A blog reply to all of the people complaining that the Cinema One is still overpriced and they can build the same thing or better for thousands less...
http://johnsciacca.webs.com/apps/blog/show/31282244
Best,
John
http://johnsciacca.webs.com/apps/blog/show/31282244
Best,
John
You can't build better in terms of the User Experience, that's plain, simple, and not in dispute here, but looking at the hardware on its own and figuring on the K-scape premium, there's still plenty of room at that price point for a second, user-replaceable disk cartridge. That's really the only remaining rub here.
Can I build better? Yes. Have I built better? Yes. Is it worth my time to troubleshoot the constant errors, lack of metadata, and skirting into the grey area of the US DMCA? No, absolutely not. The C1 caters to a market starved for such a solution, but we're not idiots either. If this was a matter of a K System for my 2nd home, then sure, $4k is a trivial matter. For people like me, who this system will be their primary (maybe only) media center in an entire home or apartment? This is a significant investment of time and money (we won't be using bulk rippers, we won't have a fast RAID array of hard disks, and we'll be doing each and every import by hand, checking every disc along the way, all of this on top of installing it and configuring it ourselves), and the lack of user-serviceable RAID is the deal breaker at this price point.
It's as cut-and-dry as that.
I am thinking of getting a C1 for a friends birthday. The restriction on expansion and lack of backup is not an issue for me at this time.
As announced in the K press release "Cinema One is the first component in Kaleidescape?s new Cinema line".
I expect the functionality of the C1 will increase as the new Cinema line develops and the issues mentioned above may well be addressed.....as ever time will tell.
As announced in the K press release "Cinema One is the first component in Kaleidescape?s new Cinema line".
I expect the functionality of the C1 will increase as the new Cinema line develops and the issues mentioned above may well be addressed.....as ever time will tell.
Feel better?
I was feeling better and then I heard someone on BBC radio use an intensifier on a pronoun in a most inappropriate manner....... I shall write to the Prime Minister.
On the other hand it may well be time to reduce my caffeine intake.