NEWS: New Product: Cinema One

[Croptop]

Full access to all play items (Play movie, Play Scene, Play extras, etc) is available when playing directly from a disc in the optical drive.

 

[baltz]

Awesome! That has huge value to me. I hate having to sit through FBI warnings, etc. when I just want to watch a movie.

A nice feature would be to keep the metadata from all of the movies that have been directly played, so they are available to browse on screen. This of course would only be useful for poor people like me who can't afford a premiere system with ample storage, but it would be cool to be able to browse my entire collection on screen, even though I can only have ~100 ripped.

 

[JDS]

Interesting review about the Cinema One.

http://www.arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/review-kaleidescape-cinema-one/

It appears someone has a larger boat than myself.

 

[MikeG]

It seems K is using a different bluray drive in these machines. 26 minutes to rip a DVD? 1.5 hrs for a bluray?!? Unless the disc is significantly scratched, I've not had a disc take more than 10, all blurays less than 1 hr.

Isn't this typical with the new players?

 

[cinelife]

It seems K is using a different bluray drive in these machines. 26 minutes to rip a DVD? 1.5 hrs for a bluray?!? Unless the disc is significantly scratched, I've not had a disc take more than 10, all blurays less than 1 hr.

Isn't this typical with the new players?

Oh stop bragging!! (I was going to say Oh...Shut up!!) Seriously, you were doing very well if you are under an hour for BR and 10 minutes for DVD, that's exceptional and frankly I didn't know that DVD's could be that quick. My average DVD is 30 minutes, and average BR is about 1 hour 10 minutes, sometimes as long as 1+30.


Jim

 

[MikeG]

Really??!?! And here I thought you were a big shot

I'll take a snapshot of my import list when I get home and send it on to you. I still import a lot of DVDs as the older kid stuff is more than fine at DVD quality. Strange that you have different import speeds than me

 

[cinelife]

Ha!

I doubt it's the Player, maybe software, but in any case, always nice to have faster speeds. The actual speed is usually related to the copy protection scheme in place on the disc. I've had a couple of discs import in 10 minutes historically, but those likely didn't have any protection.



Jim

 

[MikeG]

Gotcha

 

[TivoSloth]

The Cinema One writes directly to disc and there is no transport packaging of data so I would expect a write operation to Cinema One to be faster than a write operation from a player to a hard drive array like a 3U. Although the 3U probably has a better read/write throughput, there is no device to device transport lag for the Cinema One, like there is if data is coming over the LAN for M500 to 3U.

I'm with Jim - 20-30 min/DVD - 70-90 min/bluray.

All of my K components are on a single gigabit switch centrally located (very short wires so it goes very, very fast ).

 

[djb_rh]

All of my K components are on a single gigabit switch centrally located (very short wires so it goes very, very fast ).

My K components are spread around multiple buildings. In fact, my vault is about 3/8 of a mile from my 3U server. All are connected to Cisco switches that connect to a Cisco router that's in a building half way in between. All via underground fiber, all gigabit.

All my imports, no matter where, are the same speeds you guys are reporting above. *shrug*

(Yes, this is all on private property and is all on a single, local network.)


--Donnie

 

[Transepoch]

I must not be getting the good BDs with my averages just shy of 22-minutes per DVD and 63-minutes per BluRay.

PS - DVDs: 17.3 minutes on a movie player 2, 23-minutes for a speed reader 1 (not bulk loader,) and 25.75 for the vaults.

 

[JDS]

Your import times are not that far from my own. I don't worry too much as long as it eventually gets imported. For myself it is still quicker from the disk than the download store at present... I am still buying DVD's.

 

[Fishbpm]

Is this M Class equivalent?

I seem to be reading conflicting comments around comparisons between this C1 and Mclass players?

those new players are the exact same quality as the C1s.... I don't know why they don't work together.

Is this really true? Since the C1 is also a 4TB server *and* comes in around $500 cheaper, surely the M500 player must have something more serious going on under the hood?

As far as I can tell the C1 is explicitly *not* built on 'Mclass' architecture. So what is it about the Mclass architecture that justifies this kind of premium?

Or rather, if there really is no difference and this is all just marketing(!) then perhaps what one is really paying for is the privilege of being able to integrate with a 1U/3U server?

At the end of the day the M500 itself is merely a player, and hence its only fair that it stand up to comparison with a C1 player. So, server integration aside, what exactly is the bang one is getting for the additional $bucks?

 

[Transepoch]

There are legacy C1s (DVD only, but works on the premier line) and the new C1s (hereafter M1, so we know what we are saying, which are BD-capable but limited.) First, the M1s are limited both by not being able to talk with other servers, but other players. This means you are not only limited by capacity but playback zones. Some might argue that a distributed media system that can only hit 2-zones is missing the mark.

The M-class architecture allows for playing commercial-HD/Blu-ray content. Hence why the M1s can play them while the C1s cannot. Whether you care about the high-res is where the marketing meets the road, but K apparently has this direct comparison: http://www.kaleidescape.com/files/datasheets/Kaleidescape-Cinema-One-and-Premiere-Comparison.pdf. One other potential difference is whether it can play from the slot... I just cannot recall at this time.

 

[djb_rh]

He's talking about the new Cinema-1, or M1, versus an M-class player.

Basically he's saying why the heck is an M-class player $500 more than a full blown M1? I think what he wants to hear is that while the M1 may have the addition of a *server* inside it, the *player* is somehow still inferior, because otherwise the pricing doesn't make sense.

I think the pricing just doesn't really make sense and the actual player portion of an M1 is probably pretty much the same as an M-class player. But the fallacy is in comparing them at all, since they aren't intended as such in any way, what with an M-class player being part of the premiere *line* and not interchangeable anyway.

Sure, you get "more" with an M1, but your "more" is a very limited "more", too. I think most of us here on the forum shake our head at the way M1 is structured, but if dealers are actually selling those things to a lot of people who wouldn't otherwise have actually even CONSIDERED the entry pricing on a Premiere system, well, it's a win for K. It's an even bigger win if you can get full trade-in credit toward a Premiere later, and I'm guessing that's where they are headed given their prior trade-in history.

They've probably got a worthwhile margin on M1 and a pretty huge margin on Premiere. So they make some money on M1's, and they make a ton on a trade-in, even at full value. And let's be honest here, because they're the only game in town that solves this "need" in a VERY AMAZING way, they command that big margin on the Premiere line.


--Donnie

--Donnie

 

[Fishbpm]

Yes I was referring to the new C1 player (bluray edition) - never seen this referred to as an M1 before? Checking a number of dealer listings and the Kaleidescape pages I can't see such a reference? - but still if this is correct then indeed the implication is that it is M class (equivalent).

The reason for my Qs is that being a newbie I really wanted to take advantage of the new entry point offered by a C1 - but just cant get my head around having no scalability and no resilience. So in the end Ive had to put the brakes on my new purchase and look ahead instead at a Premier line setup - so having already looked carefully at the C1 I was struggling to understand the price point of the M500 player.

From what Donnie has said it seems my suspicions were correct in that what Im really paying for is the privilege of being able to connect to a server. So I can see now why Kaleidescape would never allow the C1 to talk to their Premier line devices, since this would immediately remove this market segmentation and hence they would immediately need to reduce the price/margin on their Mclass players!

Well my 1U server and 1080p player arrive this week, so looks a C1 player will never grace my AV rack at this rate!

Thanks guys, Mark

 

[cinelife]

I think the "M1" was description was meant to reflect the "M"-class player inside the C"1". It is NOT a designation used by K.

Yes, the two Player's (M-Class and new C1) have the same playback quality and capabilities in both video and audio.



Jim

 

[djb_rh]

There are legacy C1s (DVD only, but works on the premier line) and the new C1s (hereafter M1, so we know what we are saying, which are BD-capable but limited.) First, the M1s are limited both by not being able to talk with other servers, but other players. This means you are not only limited by capacity but playback zones. Some might argue that a distributed media system that can only hit 2-zones is missing the mark.

Not to sound like a pain, but if you read the bolded part again, I think you'll see that he's saying HE is referring to it as an "M1" to not have to type "new Cinema One" or "new C1" all the time.

K didn't do anyone any favors by reusing that name like they did. I think we need SOME kind of designation to use here on the forum that makes sense to differentiate the two that's better than having to ALWAYS type "new C1" to refer to something that eventually will NOT be "new" any longer. I like the C1 designation for the original and the M1 designation for the "new" one, but understand it may not be obvious to a newbie jumping in.

Or maybe "C1" and "C1HD"? I dunno, but I do hate "new C1." Pet peeve, I guess.


--Donnie

 

[Transepoch]

I think by at least the second-gen, C1 had the GXP chips, so they could do FullHD the whole time, just not the commercially released AACS stuff... but yes, M1 is just because while not at the top of anyone's priority list, I doubt many would really turn-down K returning to a nomenclature that is more intuitive and less repetitive (such as "Movie Player 2" rather than "Movie Player-and-you-better-read-the-specs-closely-to-know-exactly-which-you-are-getting".) And it's much faster to type than M-Class Cinema One, or new, or Blu-ray-capable, or whatever.

3C1 (3rd-generation Cinema One) doesn't seem quite as simple, though may be a good choice if K plans to keep reusing "Cinema One" for any all-in-one solution they release.