3TB Drives are Here

[cinelife]

Also, I've received a bunch of contacts asking when the surcharges will end. I mentioned this above as well, but the answer is "no one knows" (and certainly no reason I'd know). Obviously something has to change in the supply market to get things back to normal for the surcharge to be canceled, and at this point K does not know when that will happen, so no sense asking.

Like the disk release itself, one day we'll wake up and see an email giving us the good news!


Jim

 

[Mars]

On a separate, but related matter.....

For anyone considering the disk upgrade promotion and planning to move up to 2TB's, you should get with your dealer to get the order in before January 13th to avoid the $200 per disk surcharge on 2TB's going in affect on the 13th. Just a thought.


Jim

For the record, for those considering it, the disk upgrade program for me was a good deal. At first, I thought, why don't I get to keep my old 1TB's (for resale purposes) since I am paying full price for the new 2 TB's? But the key was that I got a refurbed 1U with a FULL 2 yr warranty and my warranty had just expired on my existing 1U - so I got $1,400 worth of warranty value. ($700 per year for a 1U and the 4 disks). Refurbished products from K don't concern me at all and the 2 year warranty alleviates any concerns anyway.

All that plus the dealer does the full migration for you which was about as seamless as it gets. Shows up with new chassis, hooks it up to old chassis, a few days later it was migrated (I only have 3TB worth of content...for the time being), dealer shows back up and takes the old one...all the while, the K is able to be used - the only limitation is you can only watch the movies that migrated over, which obviously grows each day.

Just my $0.02

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

Mars, you can actually watch movies off the old server until the migration is completed and then your dealer should group the players with the new server so you don't miss any of your collection. In your case that isn't a major issue, but a fully loaded 3U server w/2TB drives would take about 3 1/2 weeks to migrate all the content off it via replication. I wonder what will be the method going forward as replicating a 3U server w/3TB drives would take about 5 weeks. At some point, this will become a major bottleneck unless a faster system is implemented.

Given Moore's Law, we would be expecting 6 TB drives in about 2 years and 8 TB drives in about 3 years. That would be 96TB and replication with the current hardware would take 3 months for a fully loaded server. That is really going to be the only real performance issue I expect to see in the future. At some point we will probably see 3U servers get an update to increase the transfer speed if the drive speed ever gets fast enough to warrant it. SSD has a nice throughput speed but I don't think the current drives can sustain speeds where the bus or GigE network constrain them. I seriously don't know what the hell I would ever be able to get that would fill 96TB though.

 

[cinelife]

For the record, for those considering it, the disk upgrade program for me was a good deal. At first, I thought, why don't I get to keep my old 1TB's (for resale purposes) since I am paying full price for the new 2 TB's? But the key was that I got a refurbed 1U with a FULL 2 yr warranty and my warranty had just expired on my existing 1U - so I got $1,400 worth of warranty value. ($700 per year for a 1U and the 4 disks). Refurbished products from K don't concern me at all and the 2 year warranty alleviates any concerns anyway.

All that plus the dealer does the full migration for you which was about as seamless as it gets. Shows up with new chassis, hooks it up to old chassis, a few days later it was migrated (I only have 3TB worth of content...for the time being), dealer shows back up and takes the old one...all the while, the K is able to be used - the only limitation is you can only watch the movies that migrated over, which obviously grows each day.

Just my $0.02

Yes Sir, that's one of the benefits, but as you point out, a bigger benefit in my opinion is the nearly seamless and much safer method of migrating content to the new drives. Much better than intentionally failing single disks one at a time, which is certainly not the method recommended by K.

Jim

 

[brodricj]

Mars, you can actually watch movies off the old server until the migration is completed and then your dealer should group the players with the new server so you don't miss any of your collection...

I'm not so sure about that...I've just replicated 2 file systems and you can only watch content on the "target" system and not the "source" system whilst replication is in progress.

 

[brodricj]

For the record, for those considering it, the disk upgrade program for me was a good deal...etc etc

+1. For me it was a no brainer...I had a maxxed out 1U that needed a repair, and with very little prospect of 3TBs on the Kaleidescape horizon I pulled the pin and bought four new 2TBs @ MSRP (which I needed anyway because my system was full). So basically I got my out-of-warranty server repaired and upgraded with new fans and power supply, and two year warranty on everything, all for the exchange value of four used 750GBs (which I figure are worth about $800).

If I bought only the new discs and not exchanged anything I might have got a better price than MSRP (I know what the dealer margin is!!), but that would have left me with old discs which needed some effort to sell, and no warranty on the old server.

 

[brodricj]

Bugger...I just read the earlier posts about the 3TB's being available now! Before pulling the trigger on the 2TBs I asked the question about the 3TBs and I was to understand they would not be available anytime soon!! I wish I'd known the truth!!

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

I'm not so sure about that...I've just replicated 2 file systems and you can only watch content on the "target" system and not the "source" system whilst replication is in progress.

Replication is between 2 servers that are not grouped together. The players will play content from whichever server they are grouped with. If you group them with the new server, then only content that has been copied over will be available to watch. The benefit is that once it is done, you can just unplug the old server and you are done. If you do it the other way, you have to change the group settings for each of the players, which in reality is not much work anyway.

It doesn't make sense that you would be able to watch titles on a server that is writing but not on one that is reading since the read step is so much less intensive on the server than writing and hard drives can sustain read speeds in excess of write speeds.

 

[cinelife]

Bugger...I just read the earlier posts about the 3TB's being available now! Before pulling the trigger on the 2TBs I asked the question about the 3TBs and I was to understand they would not be available anytime soon!! I wish I'd known the truth!!

Unfortunately, anyone using the "not anytime soon" words were just offering an opinion and many other posts in several threads made it very clear that none of us had any idea about the release date. I know I didn't have a clue, and no one that I speak with almost daily at K had any idea either. Personally, I would have been happy if they would have showed up by March, so this is really a surprise.

Like other dealers, I've got client's that recently ordered Servers and drives, and they are not happy. In one particular case, I felt bad enough to offer to pay for the drive upgrade from 2Tb to 3TB. Not that I gave any assurances, I didn't, but I gave my opinion that larger drives might be a few months out. I did, however, caveat that by pointing out that I had no direct knowledge of actual release dates. Oh well, at least we now have larger drives!!!


Jim

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

They want larger drives then are unhappy when they come out. It begs the question "would you be happier if you had to wait even longer for these to come out?"

 

[brodricj]

..The players will play content from whichever server they are grouped with. If you group them with the new server, then only content that has been copied over will be available to watch...

Yep, that's what I said, but explained in another way. During the replication process, content that has been copied from the source server to the target server is available to all players in the target server group. Players in the source server group will not be able to play any content.

 

[brodricj]

They want larger drives then are unhappy when they come out. It begs the question "would you be happier if you had to wait even longer for these to come out?"

Yes, I'm "unhappy" that the new drives have just come out, because I have just ordered 2TB after being told recently by someone at K that in all likelihood the 3TB wouldn't be available anytime soon. And it was only with this information that I pulled the trigger on the 2TBs. My 2TB have just shipped this week, but they haven't been delivered yet. I'm working on a plan for FedEX to turn them around from whence they came and hopefully pay the price difference on the 3TB.

I don't want new 2TB tomorrow if the 3TB are available today.

 

[cinelife]

Yes, I'm "unhappy" that the new drives have just come out, because I have just ordered 2TB after being told recently by someone at K that in all likelihood the 3TB wouldn't be available anytime soon. And it was only with this information that I pulled the trigger on the 2TBs. My 2TB have just shipped this week, but they haven't been delivered yet. I'm working on a plan for FedEX to turn them around from whence they came and hopefully pay the price difference on the 3TB.

I don't want new 2TB tomorrow if the 3TB are available today.

You can probably do that. I'd be surprised if they didn't help in that case. My people bought and received product more than a week before release, but not yet delivered is another matter.

Worst case, a restocking fee could apply.


Jim

 

[brodricj]

...after being told recently by someone at K that in all likelihood the 3TB wouldn't be available anytime soon...

Oops, just to correct the record. I have checked again what I thought I was told, however the advice from K was "they have not yet qualified a 3TB model and can't predict when one will pass". So I read too much into that in assuming one wouldn't be available "anytime soon"....obviously they've since found one that made the grade and have moved it to market very quickly.

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

Yep, that's what I said, but explained in another way. During the replication process, content that has been copied from the source server to the target server is available to all players in the target server group. Players in the source server group will not be able to play any content.

I was not aware the the source server was unable to play any content while the replication process was going on. The last time I did a replication, I have multiple 5U servers replicating onto a single 3U so I must have had one 5U that was not replicating to watch while content was transferring. Also, the replication was quite fast given the much smaller capacity of my 5U servers.

 

[Transepoch]

This anouncement is somewhat unwelcome, having needed a new server in late-summer for the vaults. Fill up now w/ 2Ts to avoid the surcharge, wait and likely still be under the surcharge, fill up w/ 3Ts and have a half-n-half (plus stealing 4k from the 4Ts-fund,) keep waiting out the 4Ts, or some combination of the above. All valid choices, but all with sharp drawbacks...

I seriously don't know what the hell I would ever be able to get that would fill 96TB though.

Two racks worth of vaults. What's a few thousand BDs between friends? I mean, we are talking at least 3-years out.

 

[brodricj]

...Worst case, a restocking fee could apply.

There might be a bright side to this for me. If I return the 2TBs, which are as yet still undelivered, on 13 Jan (the date the $300 surcharge kicks in) they should credit me to the value of MSRP + $300, which would be the price they sell these exact same discs to somebody else, right In which case my change-over price will only be $100/disc, minus any restocking fee.

Or worst case I just give them back the four 2TBs and swap them for three 3TBs with no more to pay, I'd be happy with that

 

[cinelife]

There might be a bright side to this for me. If I return the 2TBs, which are as yet still undelivered, on 13 Jan (the date the $300 surcharge kicks in) they should credit me to the value of MSRP + $300, which would be the price they sell these exact same discs to somebody else, right In which case my change-over price will only be $100/disc, minus any restocking fee.

Or worst case I just give them back the four 2TBs and swap them for three 3TBs with no more to pay, I'd be happy with that

Ha! (Nice try, and if that works, let me know..)

BTW, the $300 surcharge for 3TB is already in affect. The $200 surcharge for 2TB's goes into affect on the 13th.


Jim

 

[brodricj]

Ha! (Nice try, and if that works, let me know..)
...The $200 surcharge for 2TB's goes into affect on the 13th.

Yep, I understood that...I just got my numbers mixed up in the post. So on 13 Jan when I return these 2TB discs, for anyone to buy them on the same day they would be paying $1150 MSRP each for them, and for the 3TB they would be paying $1400 MSRP each. Thus the price difference is $250 for the extra 1TB capacity, each.

Let's hope they see it that way, and I'll flash an extra $1k off to the dealer in a heart beat!!

 

[cinelife]

On January 13th the 2TB will be $1,195 ($995 + $200).

The 3TB's are currently $1,695 ($1,395 + $300).


Jim