Some users inadvertently have scaling and/or processing turned on at the AVR because they want to see the AVR's OSD.
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NEWS: Strato K Movie Player with 8K capability and new "4K Cinematic" full-chroma & higher bitrate support
- Thread starter josh
- Start date
busybee2498
Member
When Comparing the C to the K we viewed only HDR content
busybee2498
Member
On your Trinnov do you have the 2.1 HDMI board?
Ah yeah, did not think of that since I disable all that stuff on my AVR.
Furnace Inferno
Well-known member
Directors/creators intent is just a buzzword to say more accurately reproduces the mezzanine file. Some people don’t think it’s important to aim for a reference, same with audio and neutral speakers, amps etc. just two different methodologies.
When it comes to DTM, processors have been shown to more accurately maintain the original image detail/brightness/contrast.
Realistically the majority of home media is not maintaining the directors intent because it’s not the same as the original DCI content played in cinemas which the director gave 100% to get what they wanted. Plus I don’t think we can say the majority of these older re-releases have anything to do with directors intent given HDR wasn’t a thing not Atmos.
That being said I still believe in trying to match a reference monitor or neutral sound as much as possible myself. I don’t have a preference for how something should sound or look that I try and change to.
@Techthusiasm, I have a sincere question for you in your capacity as an authorized Kaleidescape dealer.
Your website advertises that the additional color and image data in 4K Cinematic “produces incredible visuals” and delivers “a dramatic leap beyond today’s 4K.” Your article also says that 4K Cinematic is “the feature you’ll actually feel in your theater today,” and states that the improvement is visible on the 4K projector or television users already own.
Those are stronger claims than simply saying the files contain higher bitrates or more chroma data. They tell prospective customers that they should expect an actual, visible picture-quality improvement.
Have you asked Kaleidescape directly whether it officially represents that 4K Cinematic produces a reliably visible picture-quality improvement over the corresponding conventional 4K version?
More specifically, has Kaleidescape verified through controlled comparisons, perceptual testing, or objective image analysis that the additional chroma information and bitrate produce the visible improvements described in your advertising?
If you have asked Kaleidescape, could you please share its answer and any supporting methodology or evidence it provided? As both a dealer and an owner, I think it is important to distinguish between personal viewing impressions, technical specifications, and picture-quality improvements that Kaleidescape has actually tested and substantiated.
Man, at a certain point you have to let marketing be marketing. What constitutes a "dramatic leap" is never going to be litigated successfully. There are a zillion people out there right now who think that streaming's low-bitrate video and DD+ audio is amazing, and who would not be able to see or hear any difference between that and disc-level quality. There are people who think that paying for 4K in streaming is actually pointless, because the cheaper HD/5.1 plan looks and sounds just as good. There are people who use literal DVDs and don't understand why anyone would bother upgrading a DVD to a Blu-ray.
If you've got a format that a) is in fact objectively better, and b) does in fact exhibit those improvements on "the television users already own," you're firmly in the territory of basically honest advertising to call it "a dramatic leap" or "incredible."
I’m a newcomer but not understanding the attack. From Kaleidescape’s website: “This additional color and image data produces incredible visuals, pulling you into the story and delivering a dramatic leap beyond today’s 4K.”
www.kaleidescape.com
Strato K Movie Player - Kaleidescape
Strato K is Kaleidescape’s groundbreaking new movie player, featuring 4K Cinematic, native 8K, and lossless multichannel audio for home entertainment. Learn more.
www.kaleidescape.com
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2023
- Messages
- 2,462
An external observation on recent comparison discussions...
In the Youthman video the participants were visitors. The participant with very similar equipment at home was the one that correctly identified all of the 4K Cinematic clips. In @Techthusiasm's observations, his family was viewing comparisons of clips they've seen many times on equipment they regularly use. I find consistency in these results as people viewing unlike content in like environments without having to discern whether the changes are from video processing, a different projector, larger screen, etc.
I think it's fun to see the passion that the new player is generating and think the situation is ripe for hyperbole. I mean, I've read posts of "night and day" differences due to power conditioning, so I think we can all handle a little puffery as we determine whether one man's 20% difference is another's 2% difference.
In the Youthman video the participants were visitors. The participant with very similar equipment at home was the one that correctly identified all of the 4K Cinematic clips. In @Techthusiasm's observations, his family was viewing comparisons of clips they've seen many times on equipment they regularly use. I find consistency in these results as people viewing unlike content in like environments without having to discern whether the changes are from video processing, a different projector, larger screen, etc.
I think it's fun to see the passion that the new player is generating and think the situation is ripe for hyperbole. I mean, I've read posts of "night and day" differences due to power conditioning, so I think we can all handle a little puffery as we determine whether one man's 20% difference is another's 2% difference.
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Just want to give high praise to Jim (cinelife) for helping me sort out issues I thought I was having with connecting my Strato K to my existing system. Just about all my fault and lack of knowledge. But I want to point out how patient and helpful he was regardless. I have made my purchases through him and I couldn't give any higher recommendation in using Jim and trusting him for your needs.
Thanks again, Jim
Thanks again, Jim
cinelife
Administrator
Staff member
Forum Administrator
Moderator
⭐️⭐️PATRON⭐️⭐️
Authorized Kaleidescape Dealer
🏆 1000+ Posts! 🏆
I think most reasonably intelligent people understand marketing statements. Most AV forum members tend to be knowledgeable and experienced enough to not take that language too seriously. If you sell 1,000 units of a product you will always have someone that isn't satisfied, for reasons of their own. The important measurement, IMO, is what do the majority of owners think, and regarding this new Strato-K, that answer is they overwhelmingly like the player.
Regarding the value of objective measurements, I think there are people that must have them before they commit to a buy, some that would like to have them, but given it's video and audio they tend to let their eyes and ears decide, and still others that couldn't care less about measurements, if they like what they see that's good enough. I believe we, like most AV related forums have all three types on this forum, and no one is wrong, it's just different levels of expectation and satisfaction, so there is no need to argue over our reasons for buying, or not buying. (IMO)
Jim
Regarding the value of objective measurements, I think there are people that must have them before they commit to a buy, some that would like to have them, but given it's video and audio they tend to let their eyes and ears decide, and still others that couldn't care less about measurements, if they like what they see that's good enough. I believe we, like most AV related forums have all three types on this forum, and no one is wrong, it's just different levels of expectation and satisfaction, so there is no need to argue over our reasons for buying, or not buying. (IMO)
Jim
cinelife
Administrator
Staff member
Forum Administrator
Moderator
⭐️⭐️PATRON⭐️⭐️
Authorized Kaleidescape Dealer
🏆 1000+ Posts! 🏆
No one is wrong for buying or enjoying the Strato K without measurements—just as someone may genuinely enjoy premium speaker cables based on what they hear. Personal satisfaction is valid.
The point is not whether owners are entitled to like the player. The narrower question is whether a particular advertised picture-quality benefit has been accurately and responsibly represented.
The marketing for 4K Cinematic goes beyond measurable specifications such as higher bitrates, more image data, and up to full 4:4:4 chroma. It connects those specifications to visible benefits such as a “dramatic improvement over conventional 4K”
Audio Advice provides a useful example of how a dealer can advertise the Strato K enthusiastically while still acknowledging important perceptual limitations.
It states:
“On its own, most people don’t consciously notice the difference between 4:2:0 and full 4:4:4 chroma, where every pixel gets real color data, during everyday viewing.”
Audio Advice then explains that the benefit is more likely to appear in particular material:
“Where it actually shows up is in specific situations: gradients in skies, subtle color transitions, and scenes with a lot of saturated color or HDR highlights.”
That is still enthusiastic advertising, but it provides useful context: most viewers may not consciously notice the chroma difference in everyday viewing, and the benefit may be scene-dependent.
By comparison, an unqualified statement that 4K Cinematic will be visibly better on the projector or television creates a much broader expectation.
More data is objectively measurable. A reliably visible improvement is a separate claim. Publishing such advertisement should also publish the testing behind that claim, including the titles, source masters, displays, viewing distances, comparison methodology, and whether viewers reliably identified the difference under controlled conditions.
The point is not whether owners are entitled to like the player. The narrower question is whether a particular advertised picture-quality benefit has been accurately and responsibly represented.
The marketing for 4K Cinematic goes beyond measurable specifications such as higher bitrates, more image data, and up to full 4:4:4 chroma. It connects those specifications to visible benefits such as a “dramatic improvement over conventional 4K”
Audio Advice provides a useful example of how a dealer can advertise the Strato K enthusiastically while still acknowledging important perceptual limitations.
It states:
“On its own, most people don’t consciously notice the difference between 4:2:0 and full 4:4:4 chroma, where every pixel gets real color data, during everyday viewing.”
Audio Advice then explains that the benefit is more likely to appear in particular material:
“Where it actually shows up is in specific situations: gradients in skies, subtle color transitions, and scenes with a lot of saturated color or HDR highlights.”
That is still enthusiastic advertising, but it provides useful context: most viewers may not consciously notice the chroma difference in everyday viewing, and the benefit may be scene-dependent.
By comparison, an unqualified statement that 4K Cinematic will be visibly better on the projector or television creates a much broader expectation.
More data is objectively measurable. A reliably visible improvement is a separate claim. Publishing such advertisement should also publish the testing behind that claim, including the titles, source masters, displays, viewing distances, comparison methodology, and whether viewers reliably identified the difference under controlled conditions.
I mean, the tbf is that their site does in fact have BS on it. Like:
This is not a useful comparison of 4K Cinematic and streaming. You're not going to get more saturated colors (the main thing that jumps out as you move that slider around) with 4K Cinematic (or even with Kscape in general vs 4K streaming; that's a 4K DCI-P3 vs HD Rec.709 thing). And I think this kind of misleading graphic does confuse people -- there have been multiple people who've talked about "more saturated colors" as a win of 4KC.
I don't think it's worth getting too irate about it, because TV makers use similarly misleading graphics (and even demo reels) all the time. But it is literally a misleading interactive, and if someone were to be annoyed by it, I think that's reasonable enough. But hyperbolic language describing true things... enh, that one you need to let go.
I personally don’t have a problem with how I’ve seen dealers or K-scape representing the Strato K, but, if you’re more comfortable with Audio Advice’s expression of their opinion on the K, then, by all means, purchase it from them (or don’t).
I don't want to debate whether 4K Cinematic looks better than 4K on the Strato K, but I do have to say that the movie "Alpha" on 4K Cinematic looks absolutely amazing. It looks like 4K 3D without having to use the glasses. Very impressed with this one. If anyone asks, "yes" iIhave watched this one on the V in 4K in the past.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2024
- Messages
- 1,038
I had watched this on cinematic as well last week. I immediately updated my old file to C’matic when the update went live. The HdR is amazing on this.
Am I the only one thinking this 70-page megathread with 1400 posts is outliving its usefulness?
I never really close threads on the forum to cut off any discussion, especially one as active as this thread, but i sure wish it were easier to keep up with the topics within this thread. There are some gems in here that really belong in their own threads to benefit many people who won't go through all this stuff here to find it!
I will keep it open, but i wish people would post new topics to separate threads rather than tacking on new things to this post that was really supposed to be about the announcement of the new product.
I never really close threads on the forum to cut off any discussion, especially one as active as this thread, but i sure wish it were easier to keep up with the topics within this thread. There are some gems in here that really belong in their own threads to benefit many people who won't go through all this stuff here to find it!
I will keep it open, but i wish people would post new topics to separate threads rather than tacking on new things to this post that was really supposed to be about the announcement of the new product.