NEWS: Strato K Movie Player with 8K capability and new "4K Cinematic" full-chroma & higher bitrate support

[RAGJr]

Watching the newer Avatar movies today in Cinematic 4k DV 4:2:2. Phenomenal! The picture is so clear, I feel like I'm there. I especially noticed the increased detail and immersion in scenes with a lot of environmental objects, like cave and forest textures.

 

[kscape360]

After spending more time watching full movies and not just select scenes, I humbly retract my endorsement of Moana. I watched more of the movie and some scenes look wrong, oversaturated and possibly with a red push. I do think it may be in the incorrect color space after all. It is the only movie that had this dramatic of a change from the previous version (aside from obvious errors like Blade Runner 2049); most movies were subtle improvements, not a drastic overhaul of the color. I wrote to Kaleidescape support to take a look at this one. I still think the Cinematic titles are a noticeable improvement for most titles, but I was not familiar enough with the format when I first looked at this one.

 

[RobT]

After spending more time watching full movies and not just select scenes, I humbly retract my endorsement of Moana. I watched more of the movie and some scenes look wrong, oversaturated and possibly with a red push. I do think it may be in the incorrect color space after all. It is the only movie that had this dramatic of a change from the previous version (aside from obvious errors like Blade Runner 2049); most movies were subtle improvements, not a drastic overhaul of the color. I wrote to Kaleidescape support to take a look at this one. I still think the Cinematic titles are a noticeable improvement for most titles, but I was not familiar enough with the format when I first looked at this one.

Since the main deficit of current digital colour spaces is in red, is it possible that most titles will look red pushed until our eyes adjust? My hunch is this may be more noticeable in animation. Is red the colour you're noticing more vibrantly in other titles you've reviewed? This is mostly me wondering what I would notice in a projector system if I jumped from a C to a K.

 

[kscape360]

Since the main deficit of current digital colour spaces is in red, is it possible that most titles will look red pushed until our eyes adjust? My hunch is this may be more noticeable in animation. Is red the colour you're noticing more vibrantly in other titles you've reviewed? This is mostly me wondering what I would notice in a projector system if I jumped from a C to a K.

I thought this at first, but it’s the only title that had this significant of a change in color saturation. Other animated titles did not have this effect, such as Hoppers and Tangled. If anyone else has this title, I would be curious to hear your input.

 

[mkozlows]

Since the main deficit of current digital colour spaces is in red, is it possible that most titles will look red pushed until our eyes adjust? My hunch is this may be more noticeable in animation. Is red the colour you're noticing more vibrantly in other titles you've reviewed? This is mostly me wondering what I would notice in a projector system if I jumped from a C to a K.

There is no change in color space from the C to K. When people talk about chroma resolution, they mean very specifically resolution/sharpness. This isn't literally how it works, but a good mental model is to imagine that 4:2:0 gives you a 4K image in green, and then a 1080p image in blue and red. Your display then upscales the blue and red colors and gives you a 4K image where only the green channel actually has 4K resolution. 4:4:4 gives you 4K images in green, blue, and red.

Famously, human eyes are terrible at color resolution, so this is really hard to see in normal image content. It's a real thing, it's easy to concoct test patterns that show it -- and it's very easy to see in computer UI content, where you might have one-line pixels that differ from each other only by one of the color channels, which is why TVs always support 4:4:4 in their PC modes. But in normal video content, what you should expect to see is veeeeerrrrrryyyy subtle bits of distinctive color sharpness on parts of the image that do not differ significantly in average brightness, but do differ in hue. Maybe a field of multicolored flowers would be a good "real-world" bit of demo content for this?

Another way to contextualize this: 8K 4:2:0 content is (using this simplified mental model) giving you 8K green, and 4K red and blue. So 4K 4:4:4 is going to be giving you the least important bits of a 4K to 8K jump. If you have been negative about the jump to 8K, you'll want to be realistic that the 4:4:4 jump is exactly an 8K jump minus its most impactful sharpness deltas.

(4:2:2, of course, is only half the jump between 4:2:0 and 4:4:4, so even less significant than that. It doesn't even get you all the way to 8K 4:2:0 chroma.)

 

[WALLHALLA]

Have you taken a look at this .pdf file?

They devote more effort to 8k and then say 4K cinematic is at 30 hz, what gives?

 

[RobT]

There is no change in color space from the C to K. When people talk about chroma resolution, they mean very specifically resolution/sharpness. This isn't literally how it works, but a good mental model is to imagine that 4:2:0 gives you a 4K image in green, and then a 1080p image in blue and red. Your display then upscales the blue and red colors and gives you a 4K image where only the green channel actually has 4K resolution. 4:4:4 gives you 4K images in green, blue, and red.

Famously, human eyes are terrible at color resolution, so this is really hard to see in normal image content. It's a real thing, it's easy to concoct test patterns that show it -- and it's very easy to see in computer UI content, where you might have one-line pixels that differ from each other only by one of the color channels, which is why TVs always support 4:4:4 in their PC modes. But in normal video content, what you should expect to see is veeeeerrrrrryyyy subtle bits of distinctive color sharpness on parts of the image that do not differ significantly in average brightness, but do differ in hue. Maybe a field of multicolored flowers would be a good "real-world" bit of demo content for this?

Another way to contextualize this: 8K 4:2:0 content is (using this simplified mental model) giving you 8K green, and 4K red and blue. So 4K 4:4:4 is going to be giving you the least important bits of a 4K to 8K jump. If you have been negative about the jump to 8K, you'll want to be realistic that the 4:4:4 jump is exactly an 8K jump minus its most impactful sharpness deltas.

(4:2:2, of course, is only half the jump between 4:2:0 and 4:4:4, so even less significant than that. It doesn't even get you all the way to 8K 4:2:0 chroma.)

That's really helpful, thanks!

 

[abs085]

ordered mine yesterday. And was able to sell my Strato E as well.

How were you able to sell your Strato E and what % of purchase price did you get back? I feel ripped off by Kelidescape not making public this was coming. I bought it a month ago for my new 180 inch projector home cinema under construction and feel like I've been rugpulled. Had I known the Strato K was coming there's no way I would have bought the Strato E.

 

[stanrozenfeld]

How were you able to sell your Strato E and what % of purchase price did you get back? I feel ripped off by Kelidescape not making public this was coming. I bought it a month ago for my new 180 inch projector home cinema under construction and feel like I've been rugpulled. Had I known the Strato K was coming there's no way I would have bought the Strato E.

I bought mine last August for $2330 and just sold it for $1700. My Strato K is on backorder so I am without a player for now.

 

[raz77]

Same as me, I bought my E last year and have had good use from it. I sold it 1 week ago and now without a player but just a Terra server. I am in the UK and waiting on orders coming through for the Strato K, nothing arrived yet in the UK.

 

[abs085]

But how did you sell? Is there any trade in process from Kelidescape?

 

[raz77]

I had 2 E’s, my dealer in the UK who I bought them from took one back as a trade-in value towards the new Starto K I ordered with them. The other I sold privately. The problem is no Stock, non have arrived in the UK and they seem to be in short supply in the US.

 

[stanrozenfeld]

But how did you sell? Is there any trade in process from Kelidescape?

I sold on Avs forum but I put it up for sale here as well. There were also some responses from US Audiomart so you can try it.

I got a good discount from my dealer on Strato K but no trade ins.

 

[Broncowrangler]

While watching Predator Badlands (C-DV), I noticed that the source was being received as 30 bit, but being output as 36. Wondering why this is the case. HDR10 cinematic is 30 bit on both source and output.

Fwiw the OSD on my receiver was indicating DV, RGB: bt.2020 (8 bit). Maybe someone with a better technical inclination could shed some more light on this.

 

[KDeering]

While watching Predator Badlands (C-DV), I noticed that the source was being received as 30 bit, but being output as 36. Wondering why this is the case. HDR10 cinematic is 30 bit on both source and output.

Fwiw the OSD on my receiver was indicating DV, RGB: bt.2020 (8 bit). Maybe someone with a better technical inclination could shed some more light on this.

View attachment 10752

422 is always 12 bit on output. There is no other way to output it. The last two bits are just padded.

 

[cardsdoc]

I just figured out that 30bit = 10bit x 3 (RGB) and 36bit = 12bit x 3. LOL. Better late than never!

 

[Broncowrangler]

The screenshot I posted above was from the Kscape capabilities tool located in the settings section. However the AVR was indicating DV (bt.2020, 8 bit). Not too clear about this.

Maybe @Edgar @lujan and others could check this as well on the osd of their receivers, while playing a DV cinematic title. Preferably Predator Badlands. I would really appreciate it.

 

[Balthazar2k4]

Standard DV uses 8-bit 'tunneling' to encapsulate and transmit the 12-bit 4:2:2 signal inside an 8-bit 4:4:4 RGB signal. That is the Dolby standard.

 

[wilson]

Standard DV uses 8-bit 'tunneling' to encapsulate and transmit the 12-bit 4:2:2 signal inside an 8-bit 4:4:4 RGB signal. That is the Dolby standard.

Gemini AI has this to say:

Because the tunneled stream is read natively as 8-bit RGB/Rec.709 by source devices or receivers, your display or media receiver might incorrectly report incoming content in standard SDR colors. However, the receiving TV extracts the hidden metadata and decodes the original 12-bit ICtCp or BT.2020 color space natively on its own end, producing the proper HDR image.

 

[Golfx]

How were you able to sell your Strato E and what % of purchase price did you get back? I feel ripped off by Kelidescape not making public this was coming. I bought it a month ago for my new 180 inch projector home cinema under construction and feel like I've been rugpulled. Had I known the Strato K was coming there's no way I would have bought the Strato E.

I have had a Kscape for over 5 years now. I remember criticisms on the forums about the “lack of innovation and new products.” But boy they have been on a wave of new products and movie versions. If I were them and wanted to stay in business I would keep doing the same.

It is unfortunate that some people are stuck with overlapping purchases.