NEWS: Strato K Movie Player with 8K capability and new "4K Cinematic" full-chroma & higher bitrate support

[Nodular]

Thank you. I am still waiting on my first experience with Kaleidescape. My K has yet to arrive. Reading many of these comments is becoming a little deflating. Coupled with the long ship times, I am beginning to wonder if I shouldn't have just popped for a used V or even stuck with my Panasonic UB820? I am hoping that my experience will be a positive one. I will be pairing it with a JVC NZ800 and a Stewart screen. I am not sure about adding a terra server at this point. Hopefully, as mentioned, my experience will be a positive one and maybe I will go that route.

I’m also entering the Kaleidescape universe for the first time with a K as there are firstly titles on K that never got a disc release which I’d like to buy plus I’m intrigued to see what the Cinematic 4K titles look like with a high encoded bit rate.
Also looking at taking advantage of the D2D program to claim a discount on purchases from the K store.
Think I’m going to be like a kid in a sweet shop.

I’ll be viewing using JVC NZ9/Lumagen 5348 scaler set up on a 2.35.1 screen

 

[Imakeller]

This is probably the most accurate owner report I’ve read so far, and it lines up pretty closely with my own experience.

That makes some of the earlier “3D pop,” “night-and-day,” “dramatic leap”, “Everyone can see the improvement”, “my family can see the improvement”, commentary age rather… cinematically.

So maybe the buying guide is simpler:

If you have $5K burning a hole in your pocket and want the absolute last few percent, go for it.

And if part of the fun is being able to say, “Yes, mine has four times the color data,” while everyone in the room politely admires the Emperor’s new 4:4:4 wardrobe… well, home theater has always had room for that hobby too.

Nice to see you finally found an owner report that matches YOUR preconceptions, so now you can discount all the other owners´ viewpoints.

 

[lujan]

I've never seen the Star Trek movies (I've seen them so many times) since buying them on the K store. I'm now waiting to see if Paramount gives K all of the Cinematic versions (only Darkness is in Cinematic 4K currently) and then I'll watch.

 

[LoveCinema]

I've never seen the Star Trek movies (I've seen them so many times) since buying them on the K store. I'm now waiting to see if Paramount gives K all of the Cinematic versions (only Darkness is in Cinematic 4K currently) and then I'll watch.

BTW, the studios aren't doing anything special here. K is wringing the highest quality possible from the previously provided mezzanine files, file sizes be damned!

 

[Nathan28]

I forgot to mention the 4k interface on the Strato K looks so much more sharp, especially on the movie artwork than the Strato V. It’s immediately obvious

 

[kimg1453]

I hooked up my Strato K a few nights ago, which replaced a Strato C, and have watched lengthy scenes from several 4K Cinematic HDR titles. I'm indicating my video chain as its the bases for my conclusion. Equipment is as follows:

Strato K out to a AVPro Edge distribution amplifier/splitter for 1in HDMI to 2out HDMI. (This eliminates any possible issues with audio delay/lip sync)

HDMI 1 to a Lumagen Radiance Pro 5348 straight to a Christie Griffyn 4K32RGB projector displayed on a Stewart StudioTech 100 screen at 14ft wide with a 2.35 Ratio. Lumangen set for BT2020.
HDMI 2 to Trinnov Altitude 16 audio processor.

With this set up I feel there is a noticeable 5% to 10% overall improvement of picture quality over 4K HDR, based on content. I see a definite improvement with detail in small and distant objects, which renders even more depth on the large screen. With no other explanation, I have a slight improvement with contrast and richer colors as well. Very subtle but real to my eyes. After reading so many comments on perceived differences or no difference, which forum members are observing, my feeling is that individual set up's are really the main determining factor. Just my take and passing on my experience, so please don't shoot the messenger. I'm no expert, I just enjoy movie viewing immensely. This purchase was definitely worth it for myself.

Kim

 

[Nathan28]

There iis a “wow” what a difference with cinematic on Lord of the Rings - Return of the King”. I’ve never seen this movie look like this and so sharp… the detail is night and day compared to the UHD and regular k 4k. They must have really compressed the disc version. Yall wanna see a difference? Lord of the Rings… it’s the one!!

 

[Broncowrangler]

There iis a “wow” what a difference with cinematic on Lord of the Rings - Return of the King”. I’ve never seen this movie look like this and so sharp… the detail is night and day compared to the UHD and regular k 4k. They must have really compressed the disc version. Yall wanna see a difference? Lord of the Rings… it’s the one!!

Careful, You might get a ticket for saying that.

 

[DieZwei]

Strato K out to a AVPro Edge distribution amplifier/splitter for 1in HDMI to 2out HDMI. (This eliminates any possible issues with audio delay/lip sync)

Just curious: how would a AVProEdge eliminate audio delay/lipsync issues?

 

[MartR]

Exactly what i thought when i read it… why would you have this splitter in your set up?
You know the lumagen can do video delay and the Trinnov can do audio delay right?
And if the (video?) delay is not enough i would really preffer to put the lumagen after the trinnov if the delay doesnt work out instead of using a splitter…
Your possible only creating jitter or whatever , get rid of the splitter

 

[WALLHALLA]

It depends on the display. On a properly calibrated videowall, the difference is night and day. During the next four hours, I will generate a script comparing HDR10 with HDR10 Cinematic using specific scenes from Gladiator II, Blade Runner 2049, Spider-Man: Far From Home, and John Wick: Chapter 3. The difference on the 1.2 mm MIP videowall is dramatic. I will confirm the results and share the script.

 

[DieZwei]

Exactly what i thought when i read it… why would you have this splitter in your set up?
You know the lumagen can do video delay and the Trinnov can do audio delay right?
And if the (video?) delay is not enough i would really preffer to put the lumagen after the trinnov if the delay doesnt work out instead of using a splitter…
Your possible only creating jitter or whatever , get rid of the splitter

Adding a splitter to the chain can help in different ways. Sometimes it can make the chain more stable as it amplifies the signal. So I wouldn´t question the splitter in general. It´s just that I don´t get what it does in terms of audio delay/lipsync.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

About Chroma Sampling​

In addition to bit depth, another factor in how images are displayed is how the color information is represented. This is usually expressed in terms of three numbers separated by colons, like 4:4:4, 4:2:2, or 4:2:0.

The details of this notation are beyond the scope of this document, but in summary, 4:4:4 has discrete luma (brightness) and chroma (color) information for every pixel in an image. 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 has discrete luma for every pixel, but the chroma is averaged across 2x1 and 2x2 clusters of pixels, respectively.

4:2:0 significantly reduces the amount of data required for each frame, so a 4:2:0 signal requires less bandwidth than a 4:4:4 signal. In a moving image, the difference in chroma resolution is not perceptible to most viewers.

4K Ultra HD movie content is encoded as 4:2:0 (as are Blu-ray and DVD discs and Blu-ray quality and DVD quality downloads), so a 4:2:0 connection does not compromise video playback quality.

The Kaleidescape onscreen display can be rendered with 4:4:4 color sampling on displays that support it, if the HDMI connection supports 18 Gbps. This will produce the most detail when looking at images in the onscreen display, such as the Movie Covers view.

This is what Kaleidescape have to say about 4:2:0 on their own site and I’ve bolded the pertinent part. Obviously could be argued that they are downplaying it for marketing because they were comparing to discs but I think it’s probably true that most people aren’t going to see a difference from chroma alone.

What I wonder is, are people seeing a difference because of the Chroma or because of the increased bandwidth? It stands to reason the bandwidth has only increased because there is more data to push through with the added chroma but I’d be interested to see 4:2:0, 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 compared encoded at the same bandwidth. Would the 4:2:0 come out on top because it would be the least compressed, or the 4:4:4 maintaining full chroma or the middle ground 4:2:2 providing a balance of both.

It also then gets me thinking are the scenes which people are seeing most improvement ones with the most chroma detail or ones with less and the added bandwidth lets them stretch their legs a bit more .

Either way I need to stop reading these threads because I’m going to end up talking myself into getting one so I can see for myself!

 

[kimg1453]

Just curious: how would a AVProEdge eliminate audio delay/lipsync issues?

Since the Strato K only has the one HDMI output, I wasn't keen on routing through the Trinnov or Lumagen first then the other etc. and then dealing with possible Audio/Lip Sync issues. I made my decision based on results from another Forum member and researching the product. Its the best and making sure identical signals are being sent out from the split. I just felt this was the right approach for me. I'm sure others may not agree or think it makes a difference, but this is what I chose.

Kim

 

[artur9]

I'm very interested in how the increased bandwidth/decreased compression ratio is improving motion.
Is the K's bandwidth maxed out or could they make even bigger files with even less compression?

 

[kimg1453]

Exactly what i thought when i read it… why would you have this splitter in your set up?
You know the lumagen can do video delay and the Trinnov can do audio delay right?
And if the (video?) delay is not enough i would really preffer to put the lumagen after the trinnov if the delay doesnt work out instead of using a splitter…
Your possible only creating jitter or whatever , get rid of the splitter

I hear what your implying, but no jitter is being introduced, at least not by what I'm seeing. It's just a clean smooth and slightly improved picture. Just saying what I have done with my set up.

 

[DieZwei]

Since the Strato K only has the one HDMI output, I wasn't keen on routing through the Trinnov or Lumagen first then the other etc. and then dealing with possible Audio/Lip Sync issues. I made my decision based on results from another Forum member and researching the product. Its the best and making sure identical signals are being sent out from the split. I just felt this was the right approach for me. I'm sure others may not agree or think it makes a difference, but this is what I chose.

AVProEdge are definitely excellent products, not questioning that.
I just still don´t understand how your setup eliminates audio delay/lipsync issues and was just curious to learn. But if it works for you, all good.

 

[Htjinus]

4:4:4 vs. 4:2:0 really isn’t new science.

Chroma subsampling has been studied and used for decades because human vision is much more sensitive to luminance detail than to fine color detail. The real question has never been whether 4:4:4 contains more chroma samples — obviously it does — but whether those extra samples translate into a visible improvement when watching normal video content.

A useful published study is Uhrina, Bienik & Mizdos (2017), “Chroma Subsampling Influence on the Perceived Video Quality for Compressed Sequences in High Resolutions.” They tested 4:4:4, 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 using H.264/H.265 with Full HD and Ultra HD video sequences. In their subjective testing, observers did not perceive a difference between the unsubsampled and subsampled sequences. Link: Research Paper

That doesn’t mean 4:4:4 and 4:2:0 are technically identical, or that differences can never be exposed with test patterns, colored text or certain processing situations. It simply reinforces a long-established distinction: more signal information does not automatically mean a meaningful visible improvement in normal movie viewing.

This video explains the concept in a very straightforward way:

Video Link

For anyone interested in the published study:
DOI: 10.15598/aeee.v15i4.2414

 

[OCD2]

4:4:4 vs. 4:2:0 really isn’t new science.

Chroma subsampling has been studied and used for decades because human vision is much more sensitive to luminance detail than to fine color detail. The real question has never been whether 4:4:4 contains more chroma samples — obviously it does — but whether those extra samples translate into a visible improvement when watching normal video content.

A useful published study is Uhrina, Bienik & Mizdos (2017), “Chroma Subsampling Influence on the Perceived Video Quality for Compressed Sequences in High Resolutions.” They tested 4:4:4, 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 using H.264/H.265 with Full HD and Ultra HD video sequences. In their subjective testing, observers did not perceive a difference between the unsubsampled and subsampled sequences. Link: Research Paper

That doesn’t mean 4:4:4 and 4:2:0 are technically identical, or that differences can never be exposed with test patterns, colored text or certain processing situations. It simply reinforces a long-established distinction: more signal information does not automatically mean a meaningful visible improvement in normal movie viewing.

This video explains the concept in a very straightforward way:

Video Link

For anyone interested in the published study:
DOI: 10.15598/aeee.v15i4.2414

Thank you for posting this excellent explanation.

 

[OCD2]

There iis a “wow” what a difference with cinematic on Lord of the Rings - Return of the King”. I’ve never seen this movie look like this and so sharp… the detail is night and day compared to the UHD and regular k 4k. They must have really compressed the disc version. Yall wanna see a difference? Lord of the Rings… it’s the one!!

The reminds me of the initial excitement when Darbee enhancement was first deployed. Users could crank it up until artifact was obvious. Some people liked it on higher settings than others even though artifact was clearly visible.