NEWS: Strato K Movie Player with 8K capability and new "4K Cinematic" full-chroma & higher bitrate support

[mkozlows]

So I would be swapping upsampling by the player to downsampling by the JVC? If all that is true then in the end which is better? I have no clue if modern hardware like a Strato and AVR are better at upsampling a "lesser" source-vs- a display downsampling a "greater" source?

There are two separate issues here. The first is sort of the traditional "information theory" angle: Upsampling is an attempt to create detail that does not exist. It is always guesses, and can never be perfect. Different upsampling methods might be better than others, but end of the day, they're all purely worse than if you just had the information available in the first place. Meanwhile, downsampling is having all the information and then some. Having the extra information is good, because it lets you actually downsample into an image that's better than if you only had exactly the information you need -- it's why 1080p Blu-rays created from a 4K master often looked better than ones from a 2K scan, or why videogames that do anti-aliasing via oversampling look better.

So theory is: Downsampling is way better.

Then in practice, there's the question of whether these pipelines have bugs or are well-tested or cause any other weird interactions or problems. That's going to be specific to your hardware and its peculiarities, and I don't have an obvious answer for you. But in the absence of a specific bug to work around, default to "better in theory" being better in practice.

BTW: I recommend not asking any of these Strato K type question to AI....man on man it just spits out total BS...it even thinks the Strato K has two HDMI outputs and does not do DV....lol

(This is an aside and not relevant to the main question, but "AI" is not a monolith. The free versions are mostly junk, but the paid version of ChatGPT set to "High Thinking" mode will give you much, much better answers. Here's what it gave me for your question. I'm too lazy to click through the links to some of the manuals to verify some of the hardware-specific information it gave, but all the big picture stuff is correct.)

 

[Techthusiasm]

I agree with the above, downsampling should always be better than upsampling and native should always be better than upsampling as well. I like how Kris Deering has been stating it. That no matter the specifics of 4:2:2 or 4:4:4, you are objectively starting with a higher quality source, regardless of how that signal goes through your chain. Plus, you have the higher bit rates for a double improvement.

Native original source is the truth. Upsampling is an algorithm trying to guess what that truth was supposed to be.

 

[rafaelsmith]

Appreciate the answers. I already knew that downsampling should be better than upsampling....I was more curious about how good the respective device is at doing said task.

I have done some tests using my Zidoo Z30 which can be set to output 4:4:4,etc...took awhile to find some raw 4:4:4 test clips (.YUV files) and then use ffmpeg to create 4:4:4 versions and 4:2:2 .mp4 versions from that source. In my setup with the JVC...I thought the 4:2:2 version looked slighting better....which surprised me.

For reference i used the 10bit 4k YUV ShakeNDry from this source: Ultra Video Group – UVG Dataset

Original Footage:
Resolution: 4096 x 2160 pixels
Frame Rate: 120 fps (progressive)
Subsampling: 4:4:4
Bit depth: 16 bit
Data format: RAW

No clue if my test was flawed somehow...Kinda had to use google to figure out ffmpeg parameters...like bitrate...i chose 100. Setup the Z30 to not doing any processing and just output files as is.

 

[todo]

I preparation of my K arriving tomorrow (or if I am lucky - today) - Have teed up:
1. No Time To Die Blu Ray Ripped on my Uoogos AMB6+ With avdvplus R10 Beta
2. No Time To Die Cinematic DV
3. No Time To Die Cinematic SDR
The Cinematic HDR for this movie is not available - when it does become available I will add it to the list.
I have watched the first 15 minutes of this movie many many times so I will be able to tell if there is really improvement over my Uoogos Player which trampled my Strato V in picture quality - both devices running on FARAD Linear Power Supply the Uoogos has a much better sounding audio than the V also.
How blessed we are for these internet speeds - sorry my friends down under...

 

[DrNeal]

No Time to Die is the first 4KC movie I downloaded. It took considerably longer than you, how fast is your internet connection?
I have 2.5Gb, with Eero routers, Cat6a and high speed HDMI and can only get about 1200Mb max downloads.
I’m still waiting for my Strato K, it was ordered about 10 days ago.

 

[WALLHALLA]

Todo, that is the wrong ten minutes of that movie to watch, i watch the plaza scene ; surround doesn't come any better than that.

 

[DrNeal]

Todo, that is the wrong ten minutes of that movie to watch, i watch the plaza scene ; surround doesn't come any better than that.

Todo, that is the wrong ten minutes of that movie to watch, i watch the plaza scene ; surround doesn't come any better than that.

I agree, that is my go to scene, it’s listed in scenes as “Time to leave”. The car is so shiny and pristine, the colors and visuals and sound make it completely immersive. It gives that Wow Factor!

 

[todo]

No Time to Die is the first 4KC movie I downloaded. It took considerably longer than you, how fast is your internet connection?
I have 2.5Gb, with Eero routers, Cat6a and high speed HDMI and can only get about 1200Mb max downloads.
I’m still waiting for my Strato K, it was ordered about 10 days ago.

I just checked, the SDR Cinematic is the largest file bigger than DV 151.5 Gigs - it shows it took 10 Minutes to Download.
I have Xfinity Turbo Internet in Houston TX - they advertise 2 GBPS top speed but deliver 2.2 GBPS - my Orbi Wifi runs 1.9 GBPS when I am close to the Satellites.
I ran a dedicated Cat 6A to my Terra SSD from a 2.5 GBPS Switch connected to the my Orbi Main box which is connected to the Xfinity Box and I get these speeds all day long.
To get these speeds you must have a SSD Terra which I do.

 

[todo]

Todo, that is the wrong ten minutes of that movie to watch, i watch the plaza scene ; surround doesn't come any better than that.

I actually watch all the way to the Bond Song and even beyond as the yellows and such are awesome when they attack the lab - and off course Anna De Armes in Cuba - best eye candy for the eyes...

 

[artur9]

...- and off course Anna De Armes in Cuba - best eye candy for the eyes...

That sequence with her is literally the only reason I got Ballerina. Three weeks of training indeed!

 

[todo]

That sequence with her is literally the only reason I got Ballerina. Three weeks of training indeed!

Another 'Eye Candy' - John Wick - Great Action Popcorn Movie (like Ballerina) is Anna by the Director who Made Lucy - I need this now and Revenent on Cinematic ( @MikeKobb hope you are watching).

 

[randman]

No Time to Die is the first 4KC movie I downloaded. It took considerably longer than you, how fast is your internet connection?
I have 2.5Gb, with Eero routers, Cat6a and high speed HDMI and can only get about 1200Mb max downloads.
I’m still waiting for my Strato K, it was ordered about 10 days ago.

You’re bottlenecked by the Strato K, which is only 1GbE, so your 2.5GbE Internet connectivity doesn’t help.

 

[Amblinfan]

Ok mine arrived yesterday and I’m going thru some titles. I have it in stand alone mode connected to my 77” Sony A95L thru my Storm Core16 and Perlisten 5.3.6 system. I’m switching back and forth between my Strato S player down here (have servers and a C upstairs) to evaluate. Started with Dolby Vision Cinematic files for all movies but i think I’ll switch to HDR10 versions to test more easily as picture presets change for DV and I’m convinced that’s some of what I’m seeing. All in all i think it’s better but man is it slight so far. I suppose i like knowing the details of what’s going on to make the file better but maybe my eyes are just getting worse as the difference is pretty minimal most of the time to me. Will say older films are seeing best benefits to me so far like Back to the Future and Indy 3 as they look spectacular. Can’t say i see a whole bunch in movies like Maverick and F1 but Toy Story 4 is pretty great and is just spectacular looking. Not having it as part of my whole system is driving me nuts as 7 movies is crap and I’m already deleting and downloading like crazy to check titles. I may move it upstairs to the 85” Sony Bravia mk2 for color reason testing but I’m feeling a little lazy. I’d also prefer my menus in 4K SDR as fake HDR stuff looks a little wishy washy in my opinion. When i switched back to Strato S system the interface is more colorful and just looks better. I have it set to allow mode changes but menu must now be HDR, at least it’s 4K now. I’m excited for new movies like Disclosure Day and what not to just watch a movie and get a sense of what a whole movie is like. Jumping around is tough and the picture presets (DV Dark and Professional for HDR) MAY result in differences i’m seeing. If i had to put a percent on the improvements I’m seeing so far it’s in the 5-10% area max.

 

[wilson]

If i had to put a percent on the improvements I’m seeing so far it’s in the 5-10% area max.

The upgrade cycle never stops.... get a bigger screen to get another 5-10%, and after a while there's the Strato K2 with 12-bit 4:4:4 8K....

 

[WALLHALLA]

Im not complainin with my 105" 2.37 at 11 feet. The improvement is threefold on average.

 

[WALLHALLA]

Another 'Eye Candy' - John Wick - Great Action Popcorn Movie (like Ballerina) is Anna by the Director who Made Lucy - I need this now and Revenent on Cinematic ( @MikeKobb hope you are watching).

Ash you would die riding in my elevator, the ratio of women to men in the building is 1.5x1 and the date range is 23-37, from all over latin America and Europe, twice a day I just get my mind blown anew. @Never moving out.

 

[Rooster]

at the levels of dollars invested in their system most people get to by the time a Kaleidescape is installed - 5-10% improvement is an outstanding ROI

 

[mkozlows]

I sort of wonder what scale is being used here. 5-10% is higher than I'd put the improvement in upgrading from, say, a 2020-era LG CX OLED to today's best, at the same size.

 

[WALLHALLA]

From a 2015 oled to the latest. I of course am not a monk to a fixed calibration like many inpractically are. Remember the Cello Audio Pallete?

2 Channel Audio Guys would park it by their side, and twiddle those knobs to whatever sounded best to them, on the fly even though my videowall is triple calibrated...


I don't let such matters get in the way of image perfection, so if the dolby vision is too saturated I fix it, slightly bloomy i fix it, too dark and drab on the flame thrower i make it look like fire.


The Wallhalla Video Pallete - we had a very relevant vip here yesterday and he loved the feature.

 

[DrNeal]

I just checked, the SDR Cinematic is the largest file bigger than DV 151.5 Gigs - it shows it took 10 Minutes to Download.
I have Xfinity Turbo Internet in Houston TX - they advertise 2 GBPS top speed but deliver 2.2 GBPS - my Orbi Wifi runs 1.9 GBPS when I am close to the Satellites.
I ran a dedicated Cat 6A to my Terra SSD from a 2.5 GBPS Switch connected to the my Orbi Main box which is connected to the Xfinity Box and I get these speeds all day long.
To get these speeds you must have a SSD Terra which I do.

Thanks for the info.