Question for Members Regarding Integration

[cinelife]

So..as a follow up to what Eric was asking in the other thread regarding integration of Premiere and Encore, I will attempt to clarify why the question is being asked, and seek our members input regarding what you feel is a minimum level of integration acceptable in order to meet your expectations regarding the merging/integration of the Two systems.

First, I think it's known by all members that K has limited resources (referring to skilled software engineers) after the restructuring. This is getting better, but still not at the personnel numbers they had prior to the restructuring. This means that all work being done is prioritized, as it should be, based on the immediate needs of the company as it regrows the business. There is A LOT of work being done to bring new products, services and features to K owners, and the general marketplace. There is also constant work with the Studios to improve the inventory in the K Store, as well as adding new features. Suffice to say there are some very nice plans for K's future, but all of this takes time, and resources, and frankly strains these resources by trying to meet some of the planned support for owners discussed prior to the restructuring. This, along with K's internal philosophy of never doing anything "half-a**ed," is likely slowing the process of integrating the two systems as well. With that in mind, I'd like K to know what we as current owners, or planned owners, of both systems will find acceptable regarding an integration of these two systems.

I'll start by saying for me personally, all I ever wanted was the ability to see both of my collections (content on my Premiere and Encore systems) on a single OSD, and the ability to select a particular movie regardless of its location, and have it playback on my display. I was hoping to not have to move my Store bought content from Premiere to Encore, and I was also hoping to leave my current Disney option in place (no mandatory "opt-in") so I'd still have the option of a periodic disc for Disney content.

I know K wants to do more, and that's their plan, but I also know that meeting their current plan means a longer wait time on our end. Although still a lot of work for the engineers, it would be far easier to give us something like I mentioned above, than a full blown integration requiring the moving of Store bought content to Encore and the mandatory Disney opt-in, and more importantly the merger of Premiere INTO the Encore system. I prefer my Premiere system to remain independent! Just give me what I mention above, that's all I really need. What do you guys think????

Jim

 

[sbutter]

I'll start by saying for me personally, all I ever wanted was the ability to see both of my collections (content on my Premiere and Encore systems) on a single OSD, and the ability to select a particular movie regardless of its location, and have it playback on my display. I was hoping to not have to move my Store bought content from Premiere to Encore, and I was also hoping to leave my current Disney option in place (no mandatory "opt-in") so I'd still have the option of a periodic disc for Disney content.

In your example, would you have both a Strato and M300 hooked to your display? The GUI would show All content, but M300 would play Premier content and Strato would play Encore content?

 

[Kicker]

Jim, I agree with you 100%. I like having RAID protection (In Premiere 1Us) for the bulk of my collection. Since my internet is never going to get faster, it would take weeks to re-download everything. All I really need/want is a merged display of the full collection.

Also, I agree on not wanting to Opt-in for Disney. I'll still be buying discs (so we have one for the car) so I don't think store downloads will ever be the preferred choice.

 

[Drhemi]

Jim,

I also agree with your comments. I have both Encore and Premiere systems and it would be great to have a single OSD showing all my collection in one place and be able to play it from there. It would be great if that could be through a single player, but I don't know if that is possible.

I would also like to keep the Disney (and any future studios that may dictate the same) opt-in/opt-out separate for each system. Currently, I usually buy my Disney content from the K. Store, but I still want to maintain the ability to buy discs and import them, if I so choose.

Currently I am trying to gradually move downloads to the Encore system and keep imports on the Premiere. Unfortunately, I don't have enough space to accommodate this completely at the present time. Having a unified OSD would be great!

Wayne

 

[JohnJ]

I'll start by saying for me personally, all I ever wanted was the ability to see both of my collections (content on my Premiere and Encore systems) on a single OSD, and the ability to select a particular movie regardless of its location, and have it playback on my display. I was hoping to not have to move my Store bought content from Premiere to Encore, and I was also hoping to leave my current Disney option in place (no mandatory "opt-in") so I'd still have the option of a periodic disc for Disney content.

Jim

This is exactly my requirements! Give me this and I am a very happy camper.

I do have one other wish that I have resigned myself to not having: The ability to play scripts that contain scenes from both systems.

John

 

[cmcgehee]

In the short term, I would be happy with this. Especially if it gets to us sooner. In the long term, I would rather have the full integration so that it's easier for my kids, but having the first solution would certainly satisfy me for the foreseeable future.

 

[SJHT]

Might be a different question, but I still really would like the Strato integration completed with the DV700. This would complete the integration of the Encore line. Maybe this is needed for the Premier/Encore integration anyway.... SJ

 

[cinelife]

In your example, would you have both a Strato and M300 hooked to your display? The GUI would show All content, but M300 would play Premier content and Strato would play Encore content?

Yes, that's correct. The original plan at K called for all content to be played through the Strato, but that same plan also required full integration to accomplish this, and this requires new contracts with studio's and a lot of other admin related requirements in addition to all of the code writing, and this is a very long process. I'd rather have the functional capability I mentioned as soon as possible, rather than wait for a much longer time to get what K had planned to deliver before the restructuring.

Best!

Jim

 

[graytek]

I agree with Jim. I don't really want to have to merge Bluray quality over to the Encore, nor do I want to be forced to "opt-in" for Disney. I would be more open to the Disney opt-in if the download came with a digital copy for the car, iPad, trips etc.

A single UI with all movies on it and then playing the selected movie from the correct player would be wonderful.

 

[graytek]

I would also really like to see the DV700 integration complete with the Strato player. It is a very large hole in the Encore line right now. As a dealer for new owners, this not being complete is making the sale of the Strato much harder than it could be.

 

[JerryL]

Jim,
I'm basically where you are. In your example, where there are two players required, the question I have is how do you select content on one system and have the playback seamlessly occur if that playback is from the other system? It seems to me the two options are either some kind of programming done in conjunction with each individual setup or maybe some kind of HDMI switch?

The problem I've always had with running two systems in parallel is you might not remember which content is in 4K. And its one thing for those of us who are more technically inclined and are likely to remember which content is 4K and are willing to manually switch between systems. Its another thing for the typical user. Kaleidesape's entire reason for being is making something daunting very easy.

So my hope for the integration was always simply showing everything on one unified OSD and then providing the simple "Play Movie" feature and the movie would play- the rest gets handled by Kaleidescape somehow. I think that should be the objective. Even if it means having to buy a special K-Branded HDMI switcher that is programmed to handle these duties. Just thinking out loud, if someone has a Encore system its very likely they have a 4K display so the OSD could always be handled by the Encore and downscaled to HD if necessary. The switchover would be for content on the Premiere system. This would also allow for music playback.

 

[sbutter]

A simple solution would be for the OSD to have all content listed. When content is selected it plays immediately on the correct device. If it is selected on the unsupported device, a pop up window is displayed "Switch to M300 Player" or "Switch to Strato Player".

The user would have to manually switch HDMI inputs. They could add a program tag for Switch to Player and control systems would take over.

I personally use Control4. It currently has a "When Strato Begins Playing" command. This could be programmed to change HDMI inputs for Strato and same for a Premier device.

The only time this would get difficult is when you have multiple players on the network and having to link a specific Strato to a specific Premier Player.

 

[cinelife]

Jerry, K can support switching between the two players as necessary in the control system modules they offer, but yes, a person would need either a switch of some type (many of us have Lumagen VP's that can be used), or be using separate HDMI inputs on there displays (as mentioned by sbutter above).



Jim

 

[cinelife]

Jerry, K can support switching between the two players as necessary in the control system modules they offer, but yes, a person would need either a switch of some type (many of us have Lumagen VP's that can be used), or by using separate HDMI inputs on there displays (as mentioned by sbutter above).



Jim

 

[JohnJ]

So depending on control system, I may have to manually switch the sources and pick the movie I want. Is this correct?

Also, when viewing titles, will I be able to switch between movies (with both premiere and encore titles) and music (with only premiere titles)?

John

I still like the idea as it gets around my main concerns to the previous proposal:

1) Moving all download movies to Encore system which leaves a lot of empty space on my 3U.
2) Having to opt-in to Disney.

John

 

[cinelife]

It should work that ALL titles, regardless of location (Premiere or Encore) will appear on your K OSD when you open it up (Covers, List View, etc.), and selecting a title to playback results in the appropriate Player (M-series, or older player for Premiere, and Alto or Strato for Encore) activation for playback of the selected content. Because we need Two players to act as sources (one for Premiere, one for Encore), the question is how does the switching work to get the correct Player HDMI to the display. I'm saying that can be accomplished by K adding the switching function to KEAOS, and/or the appropriate control module (Control 4, Crestron, Universal, RTI, etc..), and that can occur by either changing inputs on a switch (in this case an audio/video switch, not an ethernet switch), or by changing inputs on the displays HDMI (this assumes the Two players are each separately connected to a displays HDMI inputs).

If it worked like that, you would just select a movie as you currently do and it would automatically playback on your display (by accessing the correct Player and automatically switching as needed to reach the display).



Jim

 

[cinelife]

As an example, I use a 4K projector in my theater. I feed it only one HDMI that comes directly from my Lumagen VP. That VP has 4 HDMI Inputs and 2 HDMI Outputs. My HDMI Inputs for K are #3 for the Strato, and #4 for an M700's Player. My control over which Input is to be selected is through an RTI controlled iPad in my theater.

What I would expect to happen in my minimum integration suggestion above is that all of my Premiere and Encore content would appear together seamlessly on my OSD. (I would assume the covers will distinguish the content rez (UHD, BR, etc.), and perhaps the List View would as well). When I select a movie to play, a command is sent to the Lumagen to switch to the correct Input (#3 or #4), and playback occurs as normal. K would add the control command to accommodate the appropriate switching (within KEAOS).


Jim

 

[JerryL]

My 2 cents- automated switching = good. Pop up instruction to manually switch = bad.

 

[Croptop]

In my opinion, any integration solution that requires the use of two different players and some sort of automated or manual switch between them is a non-starter. It's inelegant, fraught with complexity and complications (on a coding/testing/usability level) and, for some of us, prohibitively expensive -- now I need to have 2 players in each playback zone or a matrix switcher and a full blown control system.

Whatever solution is put forward, it needs to be a "one zone; one player" type of implementation in order for me to support it.

 

[jmdls]

I don't see why this couldn't be a "flag" or something that the K'scape could output to a control system much like the way that it currently outputs aspect ratio flags. Just letting the control system know where the video was coming from and then let automation take over from there. For example, in my Control4 system I could set a bit of programming that would be "If Kaleidescape says video is from Strato, then turn pre-amp to input Blu-ray; if Kaleidescape says video is from Premier, then turn pre-amp to input DVD." This would be pretty simple really and would be a quick input change that would be barely a flicker on the OSD. I use this for masking control based on the aspect ratio cues...