Question for Members Regarding Integration

[JerryL]

It's hard to argue with that.

But here is how I see it.

The integration is only useful for those of us with Premiere systems who are adding the Encore system. If someone is buying a new Kaleidescape system, its very likely to be Encore. Why would you bother with a Premiere system today?

In the case of the existing Premiere system owner, I would imagine they will add Encore players to all their zones. So they would have both players anyway.

I think this could work so long as the process is handled in a fairly elegant manner.

I hate to say it, but I'm still not sure I would buy into the Encore system because I am (very sadly) concerned that the days for a system like this are numbered. The streaming services are getting better and better all the time. I can envision some or all featuring 4K content and maybe even higher quality high bit rate for those who might pay a little extra.

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

I agree that it can work if it is elegant, but having to switch inputs is not elegant, any more than selecting the movie and getting a dialog box telling you to put that disc in the tray.

Streaming systems are great for those with fat Internet pipes. At my office, we are having to pay $200 per month for a 1.5 Mbit line because we are in the boonies.

 

[JerryL]

Ouch. That hurts!

I don't think the input switch would be too bad- really no different than when my projector or monitor takes a second to sync to the a frame rate.

It might take another 5-10 years, but high speed cellular is going to replace wires and then you'll have ultra fast service just about everywhere.

 

[SJHT]

Not sure what you mean by flicker, but if you switch to a 4K Strato movie, there is surely a resync. With projectors this could be long. Although I don't think this idea would be ideal for combining a Strato and Alto (just to integrate blurays from a DV700 - the missing piece of the Encore integration), if they did this, then the interface would need to be on the Strato as Altos are much slower and almost clunky compared to the Strato. SJ

 

[dlittle]

As a customer who is running two systems side by side, I would definitely be excited for this option — although not as elegant and polished as I’ve come to expect from Kaleidescape, it would at least allow me to see my entire library without having to switch back and forth between sources. Right now, looking for a specific title, if I can’t remember which server it resides, requires having to browse between two different systems on two different inputs, which is a major pain in the a**.

One feature not discussed so far is also very important to me - the ability to transfer store content directly from my 3U servers to the Terra. Comcast just started capping my monthly download limit, which is going to make re-downloading titles expensive.

Dave Little

 

[JerryL]

So in the few hours between yesterday and today I did a reverse course as my projector is dying quickly on me and the cost of repair is so high that it makes replacement my preferred choice. My new projector will be 4K and when considering the cost of the Strato with 10TB it doesn't seem too bad compared to what K equipment with that level of storage used to cost. So I am likely going to join you with 4K K equipment!

When we were discussing the issue of running 2 systems and the fact that some movies could be on one but not the other, as this will only be in my theater, I will just have the system download the HD copy as well to my Premiere system. I will just remember which movies are available in 4K. For now that's manageable. For longer term that will not be the best thing and I hope they will come up with some kind of work around.

In terms of switching inputs- you are right that some setups need more time to sync. One way around this would be if you are using a video processor. If its always outputting the same frame rate, I don't think you will have a long drop off period. If you are watching on a flat panel 4K monitor/ TV then I think its just time between inputs.

Maybe for now it would be enough for those with both Premiere and Encore systems for Kaleidescape to put a little "4K" logo next to any movies listed in the Premiere system. So you would know you also have it in 4K. This is just meant as a stop gap.

 

[JohnJ]

Congrats Jerry (I think)! Let us know on what new projector you decide.

John

 

[JerryL]

Thanks! It looks like it will be the Digital Projection Insight Laser 4K. With my usage pattern the laser light source would last me about 100 years! So basically 2x as bright as my old one with 4x the resolution and a wider color gamut. I would have liked to wait another couple of years but my current (soon to be former) PJ decided its basically done. I've gotten over 10 years out of it so its done well by me.

 

[cinelife]

........One feature not discussed so far is also very important to me - the ability to transfer store content directly from my 3U servers to the Terra. Comcast just started capping my monthly download limit, which is going to make re-downloading titles expensive.

Dave Little

I think this is one of the features that would take a lot of time, it might have something to do with current legal (contract) requirements. For example, Disney content would be allowed to transfer over, there may be other issues as well.

Of course this only matters if you actually want the ability to move Store bought content from a Premiere server to an Encore component. This would have been a requirement with a full integration. Most of the owners I communicate with did not like that requirement, and would rather keep the Store content in their Premiere system because those tend to have more space for storage (but the new 10TB drives in Strato and Terra are making that less of an issue). I'd rather keep some storage capability in my Encore system given the new content coming to the Store.



Jim

 

[dnanian]

I'd really like to be able to play my Premiere content through any new Encore player...but I would like to be able to do so without opting in, given the Disney material I have...and also, I really don't want my Blu-Rays to have to play back from the vault (vs. just presence testing), because that seems ridiculous, slow and will significantly shorten the lifespan of the units.

But then, I look at the cost of bringing a Strato or two into the system, and look at the costs of acquiring, downloading and storing 4K content, and then look at the streaming options available for that same content (which is all extremely mainstream stuff, quite low quantity, and all up on Ultraviolet platforms like Vudu, which can be streamed at 4K -- yes, at a slight cost in quality), and start wondering whether the compromises and costs involved with yet-another-transition are worth it. (And that's from someone who has had a Kaleidescape system for many years, and who loves the darned thing.)

I still find it astounding and short-sighted the way the studios went after Kaleidescape, given people with these systems are their best customers who are trying to stay within the bounds of agreements, despite the ready availability of alternate paths.

So, in the end, I honestly don't know. I'm sort of waiting to see what Kaleidescape does with the integration to decide what to do at my end...

 

[JohnJ]

Thanks! It looks like it will be the Digital Projection Insight Laser 4K. With my usage pattern the laser light source would last me about 100 years! So basically 2x as bright as my old one with 4x the resolution and a wider color gamut. I would have liked to wait another couple of years but my current (soon to be former) PJ decided its basically done. I've gotten over 10 years out of it so its done well by me.

Nice! That's a projector that I have been keeping my eye on - I am hoping it comes down in price by the time I need one. Like you I have been waiting to upgrade to 4K. I am hoping my projector holds on for another or two - or maybe not? It would be fun to upgrade everything.

John

 

[JerryL]

Thanks John. I was hoping to do the same thing, but my current projector decided to advance my schedule by 2-3 years. I'm really excited about the projector. Aside from producing a beautiful picture (an assumption by me right now as I haven't seen it yet), its got a laser light source. I mean... laser beams! I think that's worth a few "wow thats cool" exclamations from the friends and family!

dnanian, I agree with your points. What I've decided to do is to run the 4K in my theater only as that's really the only place in my house right now I'd notice the difference once that projector goes in. I plan to just download whatever 4K content I purchase for the Encore system also to my Premiere in HD. Its not space efficient, but for now it will work. Since my other displays are all HD it won't really matter anyway. I'll have my theater default to showing the Premiere system so anyone who just goes in there to simply watch a movie will have the entire content at their fingertips. I'll know to look for the 4K content if its available. For now it's not too many movies. But in the long run it could be. They need to figure out a smart integration strategy soon. As to the studios, everyone I know who owns a Kaleidescape system is a supporter of intellectual property rights. So you are correct, why go after us or Kaleidescape. I can only guess someone got rubbed the wrong way somewhere along the line and this is what we have. The more I think about this, I hate to admit it, but I think we are just too small a group for the studios to really care about. Even though they could make some more money off us and we would think they are crazy to pass it up, I think we are simply relatively small potatoes.

 

[Transepoch]

Like I stated in the other thread, my preference is strongly for cohabitation over integration (under the previously announced terms, anyway.) Come to think of it, I would hope it becomes a permanent option, and not just being a stopgap engagement to integration. (aka, we will let you run them side-by-side for now, but once we finish, the switch gets flipped)

 

[Calm-One]

Don't forget the music library!

My 2 cents- automated switching = good. Pop up instruction to manually switch = bad.

I seem to remember being an early A/V enthusiast manually flipping LaserDiscs until Pioneer figured out how to play both sides, but the interruption that at one time was a "wow" feature would never be tolerated by the community today.

If the better K unit cannot directly playback the content of the legacy system, it's alot easier for me to have ABT to code two discrete HDMI sources on the AMX control system.

While I know everyone here wants their legacy Blu rays and DVDs, I still have hope that the music library I have stored on the Premier would come forward.

Lastly, forcing the Disney EULA to gain integration; not interested.

Cheers

 

[Dinami]

So..as a follow up to what Eric was asking in the other thread regarding integration of Premiere and Encore, I will attempt to clarify why the question is being asked, and seek our members input regarding what you feel is a minimum level of integration acceptable in order to meet your expectations regarding the merging/integration of the Two systems.



First, I think it's known by all members that K has limited resources (referring to skilled software engineers) after the restructuring. This is getting better, but still not at the personnel numbers they had prior to the restructuring. This means that all work being done is prioritized, as it should be, based on the immediate needs of the company as it regrows the business. There is A LOT of work being done to bring new products, services and features to K owners, and the general marketplace. There is also constant work with the Studios to improve the inventory in the K Store, as well as adding new features. Suffice to say there are some very nice plans for K's future, but all of this takes time, and resources, and frankly strains these resources by trying to meet some of the planned support for owners discussed prior to the restructuring. This, along with K's internal philosophy of never doing anything "half-a**ed," is likely slowing the process of integrating the two systems as well. With that in mind, I'd like K to know what we as current owners, or planned owners, of both systems will find acceptable regarding an integration of these two systems.



I'll start by saying for me personally, all I ever wanted was the ability to see both of my collections (content on my Premiere and Encore systems) on a single OSD, and the ability to select a particular movie regardless of its location, and have it playback on my display. I was hoping to not have to move my Store bought content from Premiere to Encore, and I was also hoping to leave my current Disney option in place (no mandatory "opt-in") so I'd still have the option of a periodic disc for Disney content.



I know K wants to do more, and that's their plan, but I also know that meeting their current plan means a longer wait time on our end. Although still a lot of work for the engineers, it would be far easier to give us something like I mentioned above, than a full blown integration requiring the moving of Store bought content to Encore and the mandatory Disney opt-in, and more importantly the merger of Premiere INTO the Encore system. I prefer my Premiere system to remain independent! Just give me what I mention above, that's all I really need. What do you guys think????



Jim

That functionality would work for me Jim. Not sure I'd need much more than that to be a very happy camper!

Thanks


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[cinelife]

Thanks to all of you that shared your opinion, it's helpful to understand expectations.



Jim

 

[JerryL]

Very good point Calm-One! I do remember the laserdiscs. I remember the excitement with the first few DD sountracks and the need for a special RF Modulator! And I agree about the music and forced agreement.

I think having the coding whereby an automated system could switch would be acceptable. I would advise making the Encore player the UI.

A slightly more evolved version of this would be if Kaleidescape could build a Strato +, basically build an M class player into the Strato. The Strato would do the switching automatically. So it would be one HDMI output. A bit brutish, and how do they handle all those who already own both systems... but its just something that came to me while thinking about it recently. I would imagine this must have been thought of inside the mothership, but in case they didn't, it could be a good way forward. Perhaps offer both- working with automation systems for those with both and the automation, and offer this who want it all in one box. I don't think the problem Kaleidescape faces is really technical, it seems to me its got to be legal. Why else can't the new system handle the data from the old? I think it could.

Slight detour- projector installed. Its as amazing as you would expect and want. I really can't say anything negative and the people from my dealer and Digital Projection were fantastic. My reaction to the image this projector puts out is the same reaction I had when looking at a 65" OLED last year- wow, technology has gotten really really really good! This is the best projected image I've ever seen! 1080P straight out of my M700 looks so good and Im eagerly awaiting a Start. I decided to pop in The Martin UHD disc via an Oppo 203 and I can see the difference. Its not the massive leap we made with HD sources from SD, but the extra detail gives the image a sense of refinement you don't know you are missing until you see it, and the extra color fidelity is noticeable. It just looks better, clearer, even more stable (if you can believe it). It's probably something akin to high res audio. For those who can appreciate it, its something they appreciate and are willing to make the effort for. I think UHD is the same way. On my approx 12' wide screen, I think its worth it.

PS- when will the store get the UHD version of The Martian?!

 

[JerryL]

I was thinking about this a little more... what if Kaleidescape made their own switch? Not as elegant as all in one, but it would work for those with Encore and Premiere hardware. Switch could be controlled over network or USB. You'd plug in both players and use the Encore hardware for your menus etc. If something needs to be played out of the Premiere, the switch would simply re-route the output. It could be nearly seamless.

 

[sshearer]

I currently have a Premiere system 3U server and a Strato with storage hooked up and working. I noticed today if I went on the Kaleidescape Store website and looked at my system, it says the Premiere Server system does not support Disney downloads (and gives me a link to learn about Disney op-in) and the Strato system says that it does support Disney downloads. I am still somewhat confused about how the Disney downloads work when you have two separate systems. Can I download Disney movies on the Strato and still retain the right to install Disney discs on the Premiere system? If this is true, will this change when there is a full integration of the two systems sometime in the near future?

Thanks for any enlightenment on this issue.

Scott

 

[Drhemi]

I currently have a Premiere system 3U server and a Strato with storage hooked up and working. I noticed today if I went on the Kaleidescape Store website and looked at my system, it says the Premiere Server system does not support Disney downloads (and gives me a link to learn about Disney op-in) and the Strato system says that it does support Disney downloads. I am still somewhat confused about how the Disney downloads work when you have two separate systems. Can I download Disney movies on the Strato and still retain the right to install Disney discs on the Premiere system? If this is true, will this change when there is a full integration of the two systems sometime in the near future?

Thanks for any enlightenment on this issue.

Scott

Hi Scott,

You are correct in your assumptions. As long as the systems remain separate, you can download Disney content on the Strato and still import Disney titles on the Premiere system. Once/If integrated, you would lose the ability to import Disney titles. Thus far, Disney is the only studio to do this.

In spite of the inconvenience of running 2 parallel systems, this alone is a strong argument for some to maintain the 2 system approach. Personally, I will consider this carefully when the time comes and then decide what will work the best for my own system(s).

Hope this is of some help.

Wayne