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OLED vs Projector opinions

Furnace Inferno said:
That dude spending $50K on the video wall from China and then pairing it with a Sonos soundbar was depressing to see, that thing can’t even do DTS-X/DTS-HD!
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Hey now :ROFLMAO:

Just the fact that my wife was accepting of a 190" wall in the living room was win number one. With the kitchen on one side, and glass doors on the other, speaker placement is challenging. Living in a condo I am limited on my volume and base levels (I do have the standalone Sonos Sub and Play 5s as surrounds).

But sitting 15' away from a crystal clear 4k 190" image, there is not a singe movie that I have watched where I don't go WOW.
 
madolfsson said:
Hey now :ROFLMAO:

Just the fact that my wife was accepting of a 190" wall in the living room was win number one. With the kitchen on one side, and glass doors on the other, speaker placement is challenging. Living in a condo I am limited on my volume and base levels (I do have the standalone Sonos Sub and Play 5s as surrounds).

But sitting 15' away from a crystal clear 4k 190" image, there is not a singe movie that I have watched where I don't go WOW.
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Now, correct me if I'm wrong but you self installed right? Took some time to figure out the project from start to finish right?

It was probably at the very top end of the difficulty scale..... no?
 
That's correct.

It took a good amount of research to figure out how Receiving Cards and Video Processor etc worked and then after installing the Wall learning more about HDR than I wanted to (didn't know a thing about tone mapping before, now I run an Envy Core). You also need to have a strong Home Automation stack to make it seamless for the family (light sensor that drives Auto Brightness, source switching, On/Off etc), but that is something most of us already do.

The actual physical install was relatively easy if you are a handy person. Not like hanging a TV, but also not rocket science.

Pre-wiring

Install
 
A 163" Lunar wall .9, 800nit cob micro now retails for $60k, which is cheaper then the 163" we just got delivered cost us. It's coming down in cost faster then you think.

Kevin D.
 
madolfsson said:
Hey now :ROFLMAO:

Just the fact that my wife was accepting of a 190" wall in the living room was win number one. With the kitchen on one side, and glass doors on the other, speaker placement is challenging. Living in a condo I am limited on my volume and base levels (I do have the standalone Sonos Sub and Play 5s as surrounds).

But sitting 15' away from a crystal clear 4k 190" image, there is not a singe movie that I have watched where I don't go WOW.
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Oh no, I’ve been made.

Scared Homer Simpson GIF by reactionseditor


Great work on building out the screen, that thing is a beast! I’d just personally love to see it paired with equally awesome speakers although in a condo understand that limits things but Sonos upset me for being cheapskates not paying for a DTS license as I would have loved the Soundbar for my living room!
 
Furnace Inferno said:
Pretty sure most people who have KScape are rocking projectors, the standalone E, V and K, along with DV have brought in more TV users but the kind of places Kaleidescape is predominantly being installed are dedicated rooms integrated into full room control.

I still don’t agree with your thoughts on mass market and affordability. If we think back to the first plasma it was the equivalent of about $30K in today’s money for a 42” and it only took 5/6 years to come down to being affordable for the average enthusiast. Larger screens don’t cost much more to manufacture, they just take up production capacity because of the larger screens being cut and with TV sales declining having more very large screens selling at a higher margin makes sense.

The prices have come down on the video walls but to suggest most people will be going for one in the future bringing the cost down is wishful thinking because that is the only thing which would make it affordable. I’ll agree that most people don’t want a dedicated blacked out space but most people also don’t want a screen that takes up the entire wall and is the focal point of the room or speakers on every surface so I just don’t see it.

That dude spending $50K on the video wall from China and then pairing it with a Sonos soundbar was depressing to see, that thing can’t even do DTS-X/DTS-HD! Walhalla is an interesting guy but I wouldn’t personally go for any of his designs very much form over function but that’s what some people want rather than sitting in a blacked out room with no windows and I can’t fault them if they want a different environment to watch movies. It is however important to remember that even on a TV HDR in particular is meant to be watched in a dark room, not with huge windows and light pouring in.

Also what does house price have to do with anything? I thought we were having a HT system because we love it not to make $$$ on a possible future sale. Like buying a new car all our AV gear depreciates instantly so wouldn’t be a wise way to try and make money anyway!

I do worry about what is going to happen with projectors though, high end JVC has already increased massively compared to where we were 10 years ago and outside of the Chinese DLP’s the prices on all the big brands have increased significantly and I wouldn’t say anything over $10K is particularly affordable when comparing to TV’s.
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I don't think I used the term "mass market." Mass market video walls are probably 10+ years away. I'm referring to a higher end market - people who are willing to spend more than $20K on a projector plus another $20-30K on VP, screen, room treatments, etc. The guy in Tampa is a good example - he installed a quality video wall in a room that could never display a projected image and I believe he did it for less than $100K. That's the price range I think we'll see within 5 years which will wipe out the higher end projector market. It's very difficult to compare technology advances today to what happened during the early plasma years.

I just noticed that the Tampa guy (madolfsson) has joined the conversation. I'd defer to him.
 
I currently have a great projector and am planning theater updates to add a larger retractable screen w/automated masking as well as a large OLED. The cost of those two upgrades is similar to a video wall. While I've looked at that option briefly, I've decided not to seriously consider it at this time. From my perspective it's a choice between mature products and those in their infancy. So much is moving in the video wall area that I fear anything I purchase will be outdated quite quickly. Further, I'm a big fan of 3D and have yet to be impressed with any solution shown. Everything appears to be cobbled together "hacks" for lack of a better term. (DLP glasses on a video wall? REALLY???) Anyway, between the weight, the power, the heat, the needed infrastructure, and the rapidly growing tech, I've decided to sit things out for at least another upgrade cycle. I have no doubt that there's a tremendous future there, but I'm not likely to replace everything in a few years and fear I'd want to do just that with a video wall.
 
OCD2 said:
I don't think I used the term "mass market." Mass market video walls are probably 10+ years away. I'm referring to a higher end market - people who are willing to spend more than $20K on a projector plus another $20-30K on VP, screen, room treatments, etc. The guy in Tampa is a good example - he installed a quality video wall in a room that could never display a projected image and I believe he did it for less than $100K. That's the price range I think we'll see within 5 years which will wipe out the higher end projector market. It's very difficult to compare technology advances today to what happened during the early plasma years.

I just noticed that the Tampa guy (madolfsson) has joined the conversation. I'd defer to him.
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Ah ok fair enough, that’s where my confusion was. Certainly in the custom install world it will take a large chunk away from projectors, particularly with people that already have their speakers outside the screen frame. It still has a long way to go on installation ease vs. a projector right now though for DIY builders.

I think it’s a much harder sell for people using acoustically transparent screens as it is in no way a straight swap and might need complete redesigns, rebuilds of rooms, downsizing of screen or extra/different speakers etc. Certainly it’s one reason I’d never swap as I wouldn’t want to compromise on the LCR position or have any speakers or subs visible when watching.

That and I also love a projected (reflected light) image vs. a TV (emitted light) image even though objectively my OLEDs have significantly better contrast ratio and black levels.
 
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Mass market is being able to go to Best Buy and order. Currently you can order a NZ900 from their Magnolia division. So anything below $40K I’d consider mass market.
 
Furnace Inferno said:
Ah ok fair enough, that’s where my confusion was. Certainly in the custom install world it will take a large chunk away from projectors, particularly with people that already have their speakers outside the screen frame. It still has a long way to go on installation ease vs. a projector right now though for DIY builders.

I think it’s a much harder sell for people using acoustically transparent screens as it is in no way a straight swap and might need complete redesigns, rebuilds of rooms, downsizing of screen or extra/different speakers etc. Certainly it’s one reason I’d never swap as I wouldn’t want to compromise on the LCR position or have any speakers or subs visible when watching.

That and I also love a projected (reflected light) image vs. a TV (emitted light) image even though objectively my OLEDs have significantly better contrast ratio and black levels.
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I don't disagree with your conclusions, however, i was suggesting high quality video walls will be much more affordable with superior quality within 5 years which will be competitive with the higher end residential projector market. In other words, many items in the "cons" column will shift to the "pros" column. And I suspect the speaker location issue will also be resolved. You should read the comments in Walhalla's posts as they pertain to 3D especially quality, brightness, artifacts, etc. I am not a 3D enthusiast but was impressed by his clients' opinions.

Did anyone look at the new Barco Runar video wall at CEDIA?
 
OCD2 said:
I don't disagree with your conclusions, however, i was suggesting high quality video walls will be much more affordable with superior quality within 5 years which will be competitive with the higher end residential projector market. In other words, many items in the "cons" column will shift to the "pros" column. And I suspect the speaker location issue will also be resolved. You should read the comments in Walhalla's posts as they pertain to 3D especially quality, brightness, artifacts, etc. I am not a 3D enthusiast but was impressed by his clients' opinions.

Did anyone look at the new Barco Runar video wall at CEDIA?
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I mean his posts are difficult to read given a lot of claims are being made and then preemptive defensiveness when it’s only really him posting!

Anyway that aside, what exactly is 3D HDR Cinematic CinemaScope or Rec2020 upscaled 3D?! Way too many buzzwords for what sounds like some kind of 3D conversion software that he’s using. Zero interest in that myself but I’m curious about what exactly that software is.
 
Furnace Inferno said:
Anyway that aside, what exactly is 3D HDR Cinematic CinemaScope or Rec2020 upscaled 3D?! Way too many buzzwords for what sounds like some kind of 3D conversion software that he’s using. Zero interest in that myself but I’m curious about what exactly that software is.
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Yup, patchwork and hacks. We're in 2026 and people are developing "new" 3D solutions that use 120Hz DLP glasses? Why are we wasting frames on DLP flashes??? There's fully 3 PCs/Processors/Controllers driving a single screen and there's no room for an emitter anywhere in there? Someone looks at their phone and loses sync? Meanwhile the whole room is lit up pink for the red sync flashes? And 120Hz? Aren't some of these video walls running at 3,840Hz? You can't spare any of that for some faster glasses so you can't physically see the flicker? Nope, just nearly 20 year-old tech shoehorned into a state-of-the-art display with no thought of advancing the technology. Maybe I'll see something at some point that intrigues me, but I certainly haven't yet...
 
See the extensive post in the Kscape Owner forum

190" MicroLED Wall Build by madolfsson in this forum​

madolfsson is the Kscape owner I was thinking of from Tampa. He answers all the questions and did it for about $60,000. And think about the improvements I'm predicting in 5 years.

Still think you'll want a high end projector? This is going to be a home theater disrupter.
 
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