Movies with Incorrect Aspect Ratio Information

[chriscmore]

It was filmed in Ultra Panavision 70 at 2.76:1

I'm well aware. The point of this thread is to reflect what ratio the file is actually being delivered in. If we're missing content, I hope you update that along with a HDR mastering.

 

[MikeKobb]

The point of this thread is to reflect what ratio the file is actually being delivered in.

Right, and it was already listed as 2.76:1 in thrillcat's list, so maybe I was just confused by your comment that it was "Clearly not 2.4". As far as I knew, we were/are delivering 2.76:1. In any event, we're delivering all of the bits that we received from the studio (which are identical to the Blu-ray disc in this case).

How did you measure 2.68:1, out of curiosity?

On my screen (110" diagonal 16:9), the difference between 2.68 and 2.76 would be only about 1/2" top and bottom, so pretty tricky to measure precisely. I'm trying to see if we recorded the exact pixel dimensions in our database but I'm not finding it. It should be 1920x696 if it's true to 2.76:1.

I'm right there with you in that I would love a 4K version of this film -- one of my favorites from Tarantino! Unfortunately it has not been released so far. Fingers crossed.

 

[chriscmore]

I measured it with a tape measure on about a 128"d screen. Your pixel count would obviously be far more precise, so I wouldn't be surprised if it actually came out 2.76, but 2.68 is what roughly measured.

My plan at this year's CEDIA is to have a mask-a-thon, showing the widest possible content as well as the tallest (Zach Snyder's Justice League?) to demonstrate the artistic effect and how a proper projection screen system can accurately preserve and present that content. So far I'm not seeing HDR in anything wider than 2.55 (La La Land, Bridge on the River Kwai), and I'm assuming Women Talking isn't exactly demo material, but if so I'll lose a bet. I'll be keeping an eye out to see if Hateful 8 or Ben Hur gets updated, or if other ultra-wide content comes out.

As for all the normal scope family (2.35-2.40), those errors were common enough that for your CEDIA '19 masking screen controls we just forced it to 2.40 for anything in that range.

 

[MikeKobb]

Makes sense. If I'm able to get a more precise measurement, I'll reply back here. I did find some screenshots online supposedly taken from the Blu-ray disc, which were indeed 1920x696, so I'm pretty sure that we would be delivering the same because I believe this is a case where we have the identical bits. But it's worth confirming.

I'd be interested to know what sorts of errors you were seeing with regular scope content. Was it 2.35 marked as 2.40 and vice-versa, or something else?

I'm hoping to try to drive some updates to our masking information and integration, so definitely let me know if there are specific changes you think would be beneficial. I can't make any promises, but I'll do my best.

 

[thrillcat]

Blu-ray.com reports the physical disc as 2.75:1, but also at 29.98? That would be very odd.

The Hateful Eight Blu-ray (Blu-ray + DVD + Digital HD)

The Hateful Eight Blu-ray Release Date March 29, 2016. Blu-ray reviews, news, specs, ratings, screenshots. Cheap Blu-ray movies and deals.

www.blu-ray.com

 

[chriscmore]

Makes sense. If I'm able to get a more precise measurement, I'll reply back here. I did find some screenshots online supposedly taken from the Blu-ray disc, which were indeed 1920x696, so I'm pretty sure that we would be delivering the same because I believe this is a case where we have the identical bits. But it's worth confirming.

I'd be interested to know what sorts of errors you were seeing with regular scope content. Was it 2.35 marked as 2.40 and vice-versa, or something else?

I'm hoping to try to drive some updates to our masking information and integration, so definitely let me know if there are specific changes you think would be beneficial. I can't make any promises, but I'll do my best.

Our employee Jon was working with Control4 to sync the masking controls to your '19 demo content. He seems to remember maybe The Matrix, which was presented at 2.39 but your metadata sent 2.35. This resulted in 0.5"-1" of unmasked area, which we didn't want to show. So, we set everything in the scope family to go to 2.40.

As integration with metadata improves, these discrepancies will become more noticeable. Our controls will read this data at some point, too. Technologist nitpicks aside, the bigger discrepancies that thrillcat lists are more problematic from the general consumer's perspective. Is "Sleeping Beauty" in the original (and amazing) 2.55 ratio like on the Blu-Ray, or has it been cropped to 2.40 per your store listing? Sleeping Beauty

Cheers,
Chris

 

[MikeKobb]

Out of curiosity, how do your screens deal with unusual aspect ratios like 2.55, 2.76, and the like? Is it a preset-based approach, or can they accept an absolute aspect ratio?

As explained above in the thread, we do capture exact aspect ratios, which then get mapped to a fixed set of ratios with "trim" applied. Our approach if the ratio is not a perfect match to one of the ratios in the fixed set is to choose the ratio that is "more open" (on a 1.78 screen) for the preset so that content is not cut off on systems that can only accept fixed presets and are unable to apply additional trim. For this reason, I wouldn't be super surprised to see ratios that fall between 2.35 and 2.40 marked as 2.35 with some added trim. I just took a quick look at The Matrix and it's marked as 2.40 with no trim, so perhaps it was a different movie at CEDIA.

I'm not 100% sure about Sleeping Beauty. Looking at the guide database, it appears likely to be 2.55 (it's marked as 2.4 with significant trim applied), but I need to double-check with a colleague that I'm looking at the correct version. One of the things about our guide database is that it includes lots of physical media versions as well as the store versions, and I'm not personally as adept as I should be at navigating its nuances.

 

[chriscmore]

Out of curiosity, how do your screens deal with unusual aspect ratios like 2.55, 2.76, and the like? Is it a preset-based approach, or can they accept an absolute aspect ratio?

As explained above in the thread, we do capture exact aspect ratios, which then get mapped to a fixed set of ratios with "trim" applied. Our approach if the ratio is not a perfect match to one of the ratios in the fixed set is to choose the ratio that is "more open" (on a 1.78 screen) for the preset so that content is not cut off on systems that can only accept fixed presets and are unable to apply additional trim. For this reason, I wouldn't be super surprised to see ratios that fall between 2.35 and 2.40 marked as 2.35 with some added trim. I just took a quick look at The Matrix and it's marked as 2.40 with no trim, so perhaps it was a different movie at CEDIA.

I'm not 100% sure about Sleeping Beauty. Looking at the guide database, it appears likely to be 2.55 (it's marked as 2.4 with significant trim applied), but I need to double-check with a colleague that I'm looking at the correct version. One of the things about our guide database is that it includes lots of physical media versions as well as the store versions, and I'm not personally as adept as I should be at navigating its nuances.

Most of our masking screens are only built with the materials for 2.4 because of mechanical limitations, so if people were watching shorter/wider content they'd either live with some unmasked areas above and below the screen, or zoom out to overscan the sides. We have done some 2.76 masking limit screens, which like the 1.33 enthusiasts, they want the screen to do everything.

Jon was pretty sure it was the first Matrix, but maybe the metadata has been changed since '19. The controls were from Savant, not Contro4, and I'm not sure how they picked up the aspect ratio.

Cheers,
Chris

 

[SJHT]

My setup only has a set amount of presets and only has top masking. Once the correct aspect is detected (control data from either the video processor or K trims), it then makes whatever corrections to fit into the closest preset.

 

[thrillcat]

Updating the list.

MOVIE, Listed AR, Actual AR

• Jurassic Park Dominion, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• Jurassic World, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• Ex Machina, 2.40:1, 2.35:1
• Next Exit, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• The Northman, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• The Outfit, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• Under the Silver Lake, 2.40:1, 2.35:1
• La La Land, 2.40:1, 2.55:1
• The Hateful Eight, 2.40:1, 2.76:1
• Women Talking, 2.40:1, 2.76:1
• Ben-Hur, 2.40:1, 2.76:1
• INXS: Live Baby Live, 1.85:1, 1.9:1
• Midsommar, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• Bridge on the River Kwai, 2.40:1, 2.55:1
• Avatar: The Way of Water, 1.85:1, 1.9:1
• The Rock, 2.35:1, 2.39:1

 

[tov5005]

Hereditary, 1.85:1, 2.0:1

 

[thrillcat]

Updating the list.

MOVIE, Listed AR, Actual AR

• Jurassic Park Dominion, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• Jurassic World, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• Ex Machina, 2.40:1, 2.35:1
• Next Exit, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• The Northman, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• The Outfit, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• Under the Silver Lake, 2.40:1, 2.35:1
• La La Land, 2.40:1, 2.55:1
• The Hateful Eight, 2.40:1, 2.76:1
• Women Talking, 2.40:1, 2.76:1
• Ben-Hur, 2.40:1, 2.76:1
• INXS: Live Baby Live, 1.85:1, 1.9:1
• Midsommar, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• Bridge on the River Kwai, 2.40:1, 2.55:1
• Avatar: The Way of Water, 1.85:1, 1.9:1
• The Rock, 2.35:1, 2.39:1
• Hereditary, 1.85:1, 2.0:1

 

[thrillcat]

Updating the list.

MOVIE, Listed AR, Actual AR

• Jurassic Park Dominion, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• Jurassic World, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• Ex Machina, 2.40:1, 2.35:1
• Next Exit, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• The Northman, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• The Outfit, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• Under the Silver Lake, 2.40:1, 2.35:1
• La La Land, 2.40:1, 2.55:1
• The Hateful Eight, 2.40:1, 2.76:1
• Women Talking, 2.40:1, 2.76:1
• Ben-Hur, 2.40:1, 2.76:1
• INXS: Live Baby Live, 1.85:1, 1.9:1
• Midsommar, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• Bridge on the River Kwai, 2.40:1, 2.55:1
• Avatar: The Way of Water, 1.85:1, 1.9:1
• The Rock, 2.35:1, 2.39:1
• Hereditary, 1.85:1, 2.0:1
• Almost Famous, 1.85:1, 1.9:1

 

[Refa]

Guardians of galaxy vol. 3, 1.85:1, 2.4:1
Because of it subtitles are not visible unless i narrow down the image((

 

[zatchury]

Guardians of galaxy vol. 3, 1.85:1, 2.4:1
Because of it subtitles are not visible unless i narrow down the image((

I don’t own it, but isn’t Guardians 3 a variable aspect ratio presentation that switches dynamically between 1.85 and 2.4?

 

[Refa]

I don’t own it, but isn’t Guardians 3 a variable aspect ratio presentation that switches dynamically between 1.85 and 2.4?

No from the beginning to the end 2.4


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[thrillcat]

No from the beginning to the end 2.4


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Which is the way VAR movies should be distributed (my opinion).

But it doesn’t qualify for this list, even if you do consider it to be presented in the incorrect aspect ratio (it’s not), because the K description says it’s 2.40:1 and the movie file is 2.40:1. This list is for discrepancies between the information displayed and the movie file therein.

The vast majority of VAR films screen theatrically as 2.40:1 CinemaScope aspect ratio when screened in non-IMAX theaters, so in my 100% accurate and correct opinion, they should be distributed as 2.40:1 aspect ratio for home as well.

 

[zatchury]

Which is the way VAR movies should be distributed (my opinion).

But it doesn’t qualify for this list, even if you do consider it to be presented in the incorrect aspect ratio (it’s not), because the K description says it’s 2.40:1 and the movie file is 2.40:1. This list is for discrepancies between the information displayed and the movie file therein.

The vast majority of VAR films screen theatrically as 2.40:1 CinemaScope aspect ratio when screened in non-IMAX theaters, so in my 100% accurate and correct opinion, they should be distributed as 2.40:1 aspect ratio for home as well.

I think I caused confusion with my question, sorry. K lists it as 1.85 and Refa says the file is actually 2.4. If that’s so, it should be on the list.

 

[MikeKobb]

Guardians of the Galaxy 3 is a variable-aspect movie (similar to Top Gun: Maverick). It has IMAX-format scenes in 1.90:1 and other scenes in 2.40:1.

As with other movies listed on this thread that have 1.90 material, the movie is bookmarked as 1.85:1 because that's the nearest aspect ratio in our set of supported options that is "more open" than 1.90. There are "trim" values set to allow masking-control systems that support absolute position to mask to 1.90 perfectly.

 

[Refa]

Guardians of the Galaxy 3 is a variable-aspect movie (similar to Top Gun: Maverick). It has IMAX-format scenes in 1.90:1 and other scenes in 2.40:1.

Hmmm, strange I didn’t notice sorry for the wrong information (


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