Kaleidescape power usage

[josh]

I've been wondering for a while, so I finally put a [ame="http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4460-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B000RGF29Q/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1222932264&sr=8-2"]Kill-a-Watt meter[/ame] on my fully-loaded 5U server to find out what it really costs to run this mini-NetApp server.

The 5U server, with every slot filled, draws about 192 Watts, pretty consistently.

Yikes. do the math for your own utility rates... out here with PG&E, I pay nearly $0.33 per KwHr after all the surcharges and tiered power rate schedules.

So powering the Kscape server works out to $45.85 per month or $557 per year in electricity for me. I guess most people would say that's not a lot to pay for the convenience... but I bet most people don't factor that $557 per year in power into their cost calculation. And that's ONLY for the server... the players probably add a few tens of dollars onto that. I'll check them when I get the time.

I suppose most Kscape customers aren't too concerned about the cost, but I bet many of us just want to do what we can to reduce our own energy usage. Seeing that number on the meter was pretty sobering... I do resent the overall energy usage, especially as the things just sit there not doing anything most of the time.

I renew my call for Kaleidescape to offer programmable off-times for the server... if you never use the thing from 1am until 10am on weekdays, it's a shame it can't go into a lower-power standby state where it can spin down most or all of the drives, but I do know this is tough on hard drives to keep spinning up and down.

--josh

 

[Dizzman]

put some solar panels on the roof and fuhgeddaboutit!

 

[Byron]

You sound like a client I have who built a pool that was 25 metres long holding more than 250,000 litres (Sorry, don't work in Gallons) and then spewed about a $ 12,000 electricity bill because he was heating it all year round with an electric 3 phase heater.

If you can afford the expensive toys, expect the upkeep........

 

[josh]

Jeez... It's probably obvious that anyone can afford a Kaleidescape can afford to power it. I just thought it was interesting to see how much it draws... and some people (I'm one) care about reducing energy use for reasons other than just the cost.

Wrong crowd for tree-hugging, icecap-fretting I suppose...

 

[cinelife]

Jeez... It's probably obvious that anyone can afford a Kaleidescape can afford to power it. I just thought it was interesting to see how much it draws... and some people (I'm one) care about reducing energy use for reasons other than just the cost.

Wrong crowd for tree-hugging, icecap-fretting I suppose...

I'm with you on this Josh. It's unfortunate, but that mentality (no offense intended to Byron) is one of the reasons we are facing current energy issues in this country. Sooner rather than later we are going to have to wake up to the fact that we waste far too much energy. Just because we can afford to waste it, doesn't mean we should.

As an aside, we just rebuilt a home we have in Indiana (use it for ND games) and I was actually shocked at what proper insulation and triple insulated Pella windows accomplished in energy savings. In truth it was my wife that insisted on the changes. While my Brother-in-law's home across the street had either the A/C or heat going throughout the day, struggling to maintain 70 degrees, our unit came on only once at 11:00 pm the day we arrived, ran for 15 minutes, hit 71 degrees, shut off, and the house maintained that temp for several days without the need to activate the new Trane system. Outside air temp fluctuated between 54 and 76 degrees and the inside temp remained at a constant 70-71 degrees. In the three weeks we were there (2 home games), the unit came on maybe three times for 10-15 minutes (we actually had it off for 10 days). I was very surprised at the performance and energy savings.

Jim

 

[JerryL]

I don't know if this is the wrong crowd at all. I think everyone wants to do their part and spending less on power doesn't hurt either. Perhaps this is something for K to consider for future servers or software updates. Maybe they can get it to sleep and then when a player calls the server(s) can wake up. This might cause a delay so there could be a user setting with an explanation that using sleep mode will save some energy but it will add some delay upon startup... Just some thoughts. I agree just complaining about some extra cost is kind of silly, but its the things beyond the cost that are worthy of consideration.

 

[Dizzman]

getting "green" through insignificant things like solar or new windows are not tree hugger. they are smart. why consume the grid energy if you can get it from the sky for "free" why spew it out your windows if you can hold it in.

in an AVS thread about running air filters and such, one of the guys commented n running ac 24/7. somebody then came on to raz him about the same crap about how we consume... blah blah blah. then coldmachine mentioned that the solar panels on his roof and the small wind farm in the back of his property produce 220% of his needs.

It only makes sense.

 

[MrCaseyB]

I hope my wife never sees this thread or Josh's numbers. She's been giving me grief about the energy bill.
Because I purchased my employee system upon leaving Kscape, I do not fall into the category of "you can afford a Kscape, you can afford to run it" I could use the Crestron system and other devices to power it off during idle times but that is not recommended and could effect the long term reliability of the drives.

I would love to see a low energy or standby mode for the server and drives.

 

[vdeangel]

Home Automation Solution

I am a Home automation enthusiast/hobbyist so my house is totally automated (Elk Security, UPB lighting/outlets, some X-10, and CADDX wireless). Therefore when I bought my 1U server I called K and asked if I it drew much power (answer was "no"), if there was a way to shut it down over my ip network (answer "no") and lastly if my putting an appliance module on the power supply (which can then be controlled on schedule or remotely via web, phone, etc.) would be detrminetal to the unit or my warranty or whatever. The answer to this was very encouraging. I was told that the OS and the hardware was designed to not be adversely effected by sudden power off's so that though they didn't see the need (power utilization-wise) to power down regularly, there was no reason why I couldn't if I was going to be away and the server was not going to be in use for several hours or days.

So what I have set my house/server up to do is:

1) If I arm the house for vacation mode it will automatically power off my server. The server will then power back up when the alarm system is disarmed.

2) I recently set up my system (which always arms when we are away, i.e. no motion anywhere inside the house, no TV on, etc. from the house for 45 minutes or more during the daylight hours) to wait an hour after the house has automarmed to away mode and then power down the server.

So the result is, when we are home it is powered up and when we are away for an hour and 45 minutes at a stretch it powers down.

I have noticed my electric bill has been significantly lower though I have enacted several other energy saving ideas recently so I can't tell you definitively how much is attributable to just the server shutdown.

So, if you want to do something similar you can pick up an X-10 lamp module (in my experience you don't need a larger appliance module and I currently use a lamp module on my 1U server) and a timer or controller. That is the cheapest, though simple method. Alternatively you can invest a little more in UPB or Zwave and hook it into other systems or your network in your house, etc.

BTW, I do the same thing with always on subwoofers, and other audio/video equipment that is not effected by robbing it of power (TV's usually are effected unfortunately). Hope this helps some folks save some energy. V

 

[josh]

Good post vdeangel, and good ideas. In my experience of about 20 years of messing with X-10, it's a pretty unreliable system, but I still use it for some outside lights. I'm not sure I'd agree that using a lamp module is wise, however... X-10 is susceptible to noise and I'd hate to have it receive spurious signals and try to "dim" your kaleidescape. (or someone sending the wrong unit code with a "dim" command). The power supply would presumably not like that! Use an appliance module for the same cost and it will avoid any possible chance of power supply damage since those modules only have true on/off. Are you sure the x-10 modules are rated for this type of load?

-josh

 

[vdeangel]

response

I don't use X-10 really in my house. One or two lamp modules. I use UPB for 99 percent of my house. I am using a UPB lamp module at present with kaleidescape (I set it to disable dim, just on/off). UPB is very reliable. I wrote that X-10 was the "cheapest solution". A UPB appliance module and a UPB lamp module are not the same cost. Hope this helps folks.

 

[carajo]

So powering the Kscape server works out to $45.85 per month or $557 per year in electricity for me. I guess most people would say that's not a lot to pay for the convenience... but I bet most people don't factor that $557 per year in power into their cost calculation. And that's ONLY for the server... the players probably add a few tens of dollars onto that. I'll check them when I get the time.

--josh

REALLY!!?? That's alot to pay.
I never thought it was that much. Man I have 2 loaded 5U servers and 2 players as well as many PC's and 2 full racks of gear all constantly powered. I never get to see the electric bill but I hear it is alot...

I can automate the power cycle of the servers but I just dont like the idea of doing that.

 

[MrCaseyB]

I also use UPB but have not thought to put my Sub or KServer on an appliance module, I think I will give it a shot! KScape says its OK to cut the power to the server but they will also tell you that the more frequently you spin down and spin up the drives, the more likely you are to experience a drive failure as the spin up is the most stress a drive goes through or something.

Time to go buy some more appliance modules.

 

[Thorpeedo]

So what I have set my house/server up to do is:

1) If I arm the house for vacation mode it will automatically power off my server. The server will then power back up when the alarm system is disarmed.

2) I recently set up my system (which always arms when we are away, i.e. no motion anywhere inside the house, no TV on, etc. from the house for 45 minutes or more during the daylight hours) to wait an hour after the house has automarmed to away mode and then power down the server.

So the result is, when we are home it is powered up and when we are away for an hour and 45 minutes at a stretch it powers down.

The only challenge I would have is that I think the killer app is the Kaleidescape with the new Slingbox Pro-HD. I'd need to be able to remotely power up the server when desired.

Great ideas, though. Thanks for sharing.

 

[ejfiii]

There is no way in hell I would hard power cut any electronic device with a hard drive. But especially not any server much less the ultra expensive kscape server with $1200 drives inside. Might be okay to replace a few under warranty but it will be more expensive to replace them when out of warranty than the electric you will save.

Josh, 180watts isn't that much power and I'm not sure you read your rate correctly to pay that much for power. 180watts is less than two 100 watt light bulbs - no way you can convince me that it cost $500+ to run two 100 watt light bulbs a year. And I do know about power as i spent 4 years in energy consulting and remote monitoring for large industrials before starting my CI company.

Finally, there is a robust conversation taking place on the Crestron yahoo site right now about this very thing. A lot of the guys there are real engineers and they all concur that we should not be hard cutting power to the kscape server. They have raised enough of a stink that the feature is on Kscapes radar scopes now and maybe a FW upgrade down the road will address this.

 

[josh]

I agree it isn't wise to just cut the power with an external controller.

As for me not knowing how to read my Kill-A-Watt meter, I just checked it again and it's right - 190watts constant. Maybe our energy is higher in this area at nearly $0.33 per kwh, but that is indeed $550 per year. You may work in the energy industry, and you may continue not to believe me, but the math really isn't all that hard and I'm pretty sure that I (and my meter) have calculated it correctly.

The reason it may seem ludicrous to you is that the Bay Area has some of the highest energy rates in the country, and my home is severely penalized with even higher rates for our high energy use in this tiered-pricing market. It works out to $0.33 per kwh for me. Some areas of the country may be 1/4 of that rate, or even lower... so it may not cost you nearly that much to run your kserver or your two 100 watt lightbulbs. But please don't imply I don't know how to do the math...

I don't mean to sound condescending, but since you state you simply will not accept my statement, I'm happy to walk you through it.

190 watts * 24 hrs/day * 365 days/year = 1,664,400 watt-hours per year = 1664.4 kwhrs per year
1664.4 kwhrs per year @ $0.33 per kwhr = $549.25 per year.

Yes, running two 100 watt bulbs 24 hours a day for a year really would cost that much, at least if you lived in my area.

-josh

 

[JerryL]

K should come out with some kind of lower power usage "green mode" and the LEDs would turn green. It would be a great marketing tool...

 

[TrikinCurt]

I know things are expensive out there, but .33 per kwh? Forget Kscape, how do you afford the rest of your electric bill? I am far from an expert on the subject, but 190watts, seems that could be a lot worse, has anyone checked a typical large pc server? For what it is worth, this guys computer used 189 while playing video games:

http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=21

And typical rates in 2008 on a chart:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_b.html

Not sure on the accuracy of the chart, since they claim cali is around .14, which is way different than the .33 you are paying!

I agree it isn't wise to just cut the power with an external controller.

As for me not knowing how to read my Kill-A-Watt meter, I just checked it again and it's right - 190watts constant. Maybe our energy is higher in this area at nearly $0.33 per kwh, but that is indeed $550 per year. You may work in the energy industry, and you may continue not to believe me, but the math really isn't all that hard and I'm pretty sure that I (and my meter) have calculated it correctly.

The reason it may seem ludicrous to you is that the Bay Area has some of the highest energy rates in the country, and my home is severely penalized with even higher rates for our high energy use in this tiered-pricing market. It works out to $0.33 per kwh for me. Some areas of the country may be 1/4 of that rate, or even lower... so it may not cost you nearly that much to run your kserver or your two 100 watt lightbulbs. But please don't imply I don't know how to do the math...

I don't mean to sound condescending, but since you state you simply will not accept my statement, I'm happy to walk you through it.

190 watts * 24 hrs/day * 365 days/year = 1,664,400 watt-hours per year = 1664.4 kwhrs per year
1664.4 kwhrs per year @ $0.33 per kwhr = $549.25 per year.

Yes, running two 100 watt bulbs 24 hours a day for a year really would cost that much, at least if you lived in my area.

-josh

 

[josh]

Guys, it would be pointless to inflate my electricity rates or what I've measured on my kserver. I have no agenda here, just wanted to pass on the information.

My total electricity rate is $0.33 per kwh.

Here's how it works in California. There's a "Baseline" electric rate - it's $0.11 per kwh in my area. But as I mentioned above, it's tiered, to penalize people who use more than average. You only get to pay the "Base" rate up until 239 kwh per month. Then you pay $0.13 per kwh from 239-308 kwh/mo., then $0.24 from 308 to 475kwh/mo., then $0.35 from 475-820 kwh/mo., then a whopping $0.41 per kwh/mo. above 820 kwh per month. Anyone in the bay area pays these same tiered rates... L.A. is probably about the same. I have no idea about other cities or states.

I'm embarrased to say that we use ~2300 kwh per month for our home, so my average is working out to around $0.33 per kwh. I have a fairly large home and use a lot of power, and Pacific Gas & Electric penalizes me, like most of my neighbors. I suspect many people around here pay much more than I do - it's not an insanely large home by any means - about average for my town.

So, that figure you quote of $0.14 may well be an average "Baseline" usage in California or even an average total usage for all homes, including rural areas, apartments, small condo or home. Sounds reasonable. If you use more than PG&E thinks is "Baseline", (239.4 kwh/month) you start paying much higher tiered pricing, up to $0.41 per kwh. So running the Kaleidescape server alone puts me at half of baseline allocation for California... add in the amps, players, controllers, and screens, and the home theater alone puts me well above Baseline I'm sure.

I assure you all I'm not promoting a political or technical agenda and didn't inflate my results. I simply wanted to share what it costs to run a Kaleidescape server. I pointed out the watts to let everyone calculate their own rates - just look at your electric bill to find your own $/kwh. Mine is as stated. I don't claim everyone will pay as much as I do, but I suspect many will.

I really didn't mean to start this as a controversial topic and am surprised by the "you'll never convince me..." and "you must be wrong" posts.

I'll state it again - your mileage may vary. But I've reported exactly what it costs me to run my 5U server. Fine if you don't believe me. measure your own and report your results.

--josh

 

[JerryL]

Nevermind they find out you have a K scape- they will surely penalize you even more!