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Kaleidescape back in court in May 2011?

True, but he is referring to the DVD-CCA's total costs, which I assumed included both. When I mentioned K financing their "legal arguments" I was also referring to all the costs associated with doing so. I did not however consider the Plaintiff's costs. (Based on the comments being generated here I assume CA orders costs for the prevailing party.)


Jim
 
Hi everyone. I am new to this forum, but have followed it for a while and have found it really useful.

I was rather dismayed that events are now not going in K's direction. Earlier posts have suggested that this will not affect existing kit. However, my concern is that at some stage in the future, K will be required to change the KAOS (sp?) software so that DVDs need to be present when the movie is being played (like for Blu ray at the moment) - thereby directly affecting what we have already installed. Should I be concerned? Not being based in the US, I am not sure whether this type of retospective change in terms is legal.

If this is the case I am sure sales of the disc storage systems will shoot up, but that would be a pity as they are bulky (and costly) and many like me might have thrown away their physical DVDs as we thought we would never need them again....

J
 
I don't know the specifics, but Kaleidescape could always move their HQ to China and flip the DVD CCA the bird if the DVD CCA decides they don't want to come to a settlement or they could modify their software so that we have to click two screens to download and install our own DVD software and bypass their DVD CCA license just like competing systems. There are options that don't force existing users to buy a bunch of vaults.

I still have my DVDs for titles I have not upgraded to BluRay but I don't have room set aside for 5 more vaults for them.
 
Mr.Poindexter said:
I don't know the specifics, but Kaleidescape could always move their HQ to China and flip the DVD CCA the bird if the DVD CCA decides they don't want to come to a settlement or they could modify their software so that we have to click two screens to download and install our own DVD software and bypass their DVD CCA license just like competing systems. There are options that don't force existing users to buy a bunch of vaults.

I still have my DVDs for titles I have not upgraded to BluRay but I don't have room set aside for 5 more vaults for them.
Click to expand...

LOL wouldnt that be great! just say F them and move on. Hey at least our prices will come down since they dont have to keep up the fight anymore.
And yeah I also have 1800 DVD's collecting dust in my storage cabinets for years. I was thinking of selling them on Ebay for the last several years but never did it. I have tried those other media servers and online streamers, none of them compare to Kaleidescape for speed and Ease of use. Putting aside the eye candy and picture clarity. With the others, you press the remote and at best 85% of the time it would do something. With kaleidescape its 100% of the time.
 
That fuels the fire "I was thinking of selling my DVDs on eBay"
Then you should delete them from your server
 
Jerry D said:
Hi everyone. I am new to this forum, but have followed it for a while and have found it really useful.

I was rather dismayed that events are now not going in K's direction. Earlier posts have suggested that this will not affect existing kit. However, my concern is that at some stage in the future, K will be required to change the KAOS (sp?) software so that DVDs need to be present when the movie is being played (like for Blu ray at the moment) - thereby directly affecting what we have already installed. Should I be concerned? Not being based in the US, I am not sure whether this type of retospective change in terms is legal.

If this is the case I am sure sales of the disc storage systems will shoot up, but that would be a pity as they are bulky (and costly) and many like me might have thrown away their physical DVDs as we thought we would never need them again....

J
Click to expand...

If this regulatory hurdle becomes insurmountable and the very strong indications that the disks themselves are an endangered species then the smart thing for all of us is to get in front of this tsunami. Kaleidescape needs to recognize the paradigm shift (finally the phrase fits) and plan a business model that does NOT rely on the physical distribution of disks.

I have not heard a single, even subtle, suggestion from any of the owners that there is any motivation to deny any members of the distribution network fair recompense for their role in the chain. Producers are not being threatened as none of us are asking to deny them fair profit for their efforts. Retailers are not being threatened by any of our efforts to enjoy the ease of use and capabilities of the K system.

So with our ethical banners held high we should be encouraging Kaleidescape to dump the disks and find another route for legitimate owners to enjoy the capabilities of this fine product. To ignore this advice and encouragement is to put the future of this excellent technology at serious risk of inevitable demise and that would be a shame.

I agree with the sentiment expressed earlier that Apple will offer a compromise that many current and prospective owners will find attractive................despite the fact that quality will take a serious hit as a result.

Peter
 
Dumping the discs isn't a solution either unless Kaleidescape will have a player for my car as I put on videos for my kids on long trips. Can't do that without the discs.
 
Mr.Poindexter said:
Dumping the discs isn't a solution either unless Kaleidescape will have a player for my car as I put on videos for my kids on long trips. Can't do that without the discs.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you are driving but I can in any of my cars. I can use apples technology either through my iPad or touch devices. Since I don't hold the same standards for video quality on a 12" screen and audio is more than acceptable through headphones for kids there are a number of portable solutions. I can even rent the solution which is ideal for kids as my taste for ownership does not always run consistent to the programs that the kids enjoy.

Peter
 
What I am getting at is that if I only buy my movies via download, then I am locked into viewing them a certain way. For example, if I were to buy the films via Kaleidescape's download service, I do not know for certain that I would be able to transfer those titles to my iPad. If I buy them via iTunes then I cannot put them on my Kaleidescape. That really is an invisible format war with just as much incompatibility as HD-DVD vs BluRay.

Having the physical disc allows me to pop them into a DVD player in the car or take them to Grandma's house if need be.
 
Im not too worried about this. I'm more concerned about the value proposition that the K system presents relative to Netflix, Apple TV, Google, etc in terms of future business. For the relative few of us with really large collections, the K system is still worth it; but for those with smaller collections (or no collections); its a pretty big expense into proprietary hardware. I think the movie studios must know this as well and they are just being difficult because they can be and because the lawyers can keep earning off this. JMHO.
 
Mr.Poindexter said:
What I am getting at is that if I only buy my movies via download, then I am locked into viewing them a certain way. For example, if I were to buy the films via Kaleidescape's download service, I do not know for certain that I would be able to transfer those titles to my iPad. If I buy them via iTunes then I cannot put them on my Kaleidescape. That really is an invisible format war with just as much incompatibility as HD-DVD vs BluRay.

Having the physical disc allows me to pop them into a DVD player in the car or take them to Grandma's house if need be.
Click to expand...

I would challenge the notion that you can't have a 'one size fits all' philosophy in a service offering. More on that in a minute......

First, to stay on point, the argument you advanced was that you couldn't take your Kaleidescape system on the road for your kids (and now grandparents) to enjoy so you would need to be able to buy a disk to make up for the mobile experience. My position is that a number of devices exist today that will allow you to forgo the need for a DVD, such as any USB thumb drive, an iPod/ipad/ipodtouch and similar devices in the non-apple universe. Most K owners I suspect have one or more of these devices and new ones are coming on every day. I just saw one on engadget that even had an onscreen aspect ratio button that would allow you to toggle through all the available aspect ratios for your device.....neat idea really. So no you do not need the physical dvd to entertain your kids on the road.

I do not believe it is fair to expect Kaleidescape to provide an export system under the current technology and business model. The whole point of their culture is to keep legally owned movie material in a closed secure ecosystem to assure the original owners that their property would not be released into the public forum under any condition and I believe they have honoured that pledge to date. I applaud them for that accomplishment.

Having said that I believe that time and technology evolution have progressed to the point that a new business model (without reliance on physical DVD's) can exist and bring continuing value to this population of K owners. Once the user mandate no longer contends with the DVD/BD limitations we get some of those things back that Apple owners are starting to take for granted. If you buy a movie from apple you can play it on your iPhone (I just can't get my head around that), IPad, 30" iMac, and through 60" LED or heaven forbid 14' curved screens. So your concern about device portability disappears when you get rid of the DVD/BD. Being able to get movies on or off your K system is as easy as pie. In a sense K could be a better apple than Apple, if you follow my logic.

The business model shift for Kaleidescape isn't trivial or simple but status quo is not an option here, especially in this business. We need, as Kaleidescape owners, to convince the manufacturer to get in front of this change and direct it rather than follow it from behind. Put the revenue back into product development and save on a ton of legal costs that can't possibly make this thing go away.

Change the current business model while it is still possible......

Peter
 
Peter,

Yes, if I buy my movies from Apple... which really means if I go out and repurchase my 1700+ titles again. Is that the option we are looking at as an alternative?

I do own USB thumb drives. Owning one does not make for a simple elegant solution. I would love to see a portable Kaleidescape system and even have a good idea for how to make one but I don't know that it would make economic sense for Kaleidescape to manufacture it.

While you look at the physical disc as a limitation, I look at it like another delivery system similar to but different than internet download/cloud. For one, discs work where the Internet does not. If I am in China or Turkey, they work where internet connections are monitored and censored. If I am in the boondocks, I still have the ability to load films into my collection via disc at a massively faster rate than download speeds. You may have fast network pipes without capacity caps or censoring, but the whole world does not share that good fortune.

My concern about device portability might disappear when I get away from the physical disc, but then my concern will be wi-fi/3G/4G availability and I have to repurchase my existing collection, which is quite substantial. Some titles of which are home movies which I can only have as an online option if I use the cloud. Given what has just happened to megaupload, can anybody be certain the what is put in the cloud will be available in the future with any certainty? Hell, I could not watch my WM9 version of T2 off my physical disc unless I had an internet connection that could authorize my viewing of it.

Finally, all the product development in the world isn't going to help if the content providers are not willing to support you. How long did it take for The Beatles to be available on iTunes? Are all titles available for download via Netflix? Certainly those two services are bigger than all competing companies combined in their core focus yet even then they could not get all the content providers to support them. And what do we do when we allow content providers to take away our films like Disney does with pulling titles for marketing reasons or just because they don't like the film any longer? (Try to go and get a copy of Song of the South!) Imagine if you found that your license to watch a movie only applies to the current version the director sees fit and suddenly you cannot watch Han Solo shoot first because George Lucas wants him to retroactively never have been a scoundrel?

Holding a physical hard copy has a lot of value. Having your content stored in the cloud or in a format that it can be revoked comes with a lot of baggage and strings that I don't find comfortable. I am not saying that downloads don't have their positives, just that we should not be so quick to bury the physical disc.
 
nrwatson said:
That fuels the fire "I was thinking of selling my DVDs on eBay"
Then you should delete them from your server
Click to expand...

hey now.. I still have every single DVD I ever bought!! Even if they take up 10 Giant cases. This is really stupid though that we have to keep them. they just sit there collecting dust never to be used ever. Unless of course my ultra reliable K server decides to wipe 2 hard drives out at the same time.
 
You can turn them in for $5 blu ray titles in the occasional upgrade offers that come along. I got rid of nearly 50 of my DVDs when I upgraded titles a while back.
 
Mr.Poindexter said:
What I am getting at is that if I only buy my movies via download, then I am locked into viewing them a certain way. For example, if I were to buy the films via Kaleidescape's download service, I do not know for certain that I would be able to transfer those titles to my iPad. If I buy them via iTunes then I cannot put them on my Kaleidescape. That really is an invisible format war with just as much incompatibility as HD-DVD vs BluRay.

Having the physical disc allows me to pop them into a DVD player in the car or take them to Grandma's house if need be.
Click to expand...

+1
 
This thread seems to skewing from the OP's original subject of the lawsuit status.

So a question to this, has Kaleidescape made an official statement regarding this?

I have searched on the corporate website, and while I cannot get into the Extranet any longer, cannot find anything on the public site. I did find the same FAQ entries that seem to indicate that all is well and good regarding the use of DVD media.

So the rant portion of this reply is. . .

This ruling seems to end the commerical DVD without a vault feature; and a majority of appeals seem to be characterized as legal long shots.

For current owners who haven't yet made it to blu-ray technology, they now have a very nice music server. For us owners that did, we just lost 1/3rd of the feature set of what our product previously provided.

IMHO if a public statement has not been made yet one should be made and it should describe that this product is being positioned and advertised for it's music and blu-ray capabilities going forward; and offer recompense to current owners in the form of merchandise credit to allow them to upgrade into blu-ray vaults and larger capacity drives beyond the current upgrade promotions.

IMHO this is Kaleidescape's "antennagate" and they should acknowledge the issue, address current owners, and lead on with blu-ray until the next product launch.

Cheers
 
What I don't understand is how have you lost that functionality?

Id have to go back and look at the original papers I signed but as I see it, current owners would likely be grandfathered.
 
JerryL said:
What I don't understand is how have you lost that functionality?

Id have to go back and look at the original papers I signed but as I see it, current owners would likely be grandfathered.
Click to expand...


Maybe the connectivity that the server has with the internet may force a new firmware upgrade taking that ability away???? I hope not!
 
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!!

Wait, that was just a movie in my kids collection.

First off, this is a breach of contract case, which would be between Kaleidescape and the DVD CCA. I do not believe the DVD CCA would have the power to disable the existing field of players already on the market even with this ruling. Perhaps a lawyer on the board here would care to chime in on that point.

What this ruling would do would be to stop Kaleidescape from selling such systems going forward unless they worked out a deal with the DVD CCA which I am sure Kaleidescape is willing to do but what we don't know is how one-sided the DVD CCA wants to make it.
 
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