I was just wondering...As per our current end user agreement with K, if anyone was to sell their server (or k-disks for that matter), we are obligated to delete all content from the server or give/sell the new owner the physical media itself. How would that scenario apply to downloaded content?
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K download store
- Thread starter Rihoward
- Start date
Another question, would we even be able to sell the digital download licenses with the server? The supreme court will be hearing a case deciding just that...
Very interesting questions.
In the case of Ultraviolet, you can't sell the rights or transfer them out of an account. In fact you can't split titles within a locker either into two separate lockers - which might be interesting in the case of "digital divorce".
Of course all of those things are there to stop people being able to engage in a secondary market for titles - I have it on good authority that the studios hate all these shops trading second user DVD and BD and see the emergence of digital rights as a great way to kill that market.
Of course Kal have mentioned on some of their materials that they will have UV support, but not whether or not the download store will be UV powered, so such limitations may not exist.
In a similar vein; if I decided to get rid of my Kal - will there be actual physical disks I can get hold of to reload into a different system, or is this a totally digital offering (it seems some of the other posts with more inside info than I have imply there is actually going to be a real physical disc somewhere).
In the case of Ultraviolet, you can't sell the rights or transfer them out of an account. In fact you can't split titles within a locker either into two separate lockers - which might be interesting in the case of "digital divorce".
Of course all of those things are there to stop people being able to engage in a secondary market for titles - I have it on good authority that the studios hate all these shops trading second user DVD and BD and see the emergence of digital rights as a great way to kill that market.
Of course Kal have mentioned on some of their materials that they will have UV support, but not whether or not the download store will be UV powered, so such limitations may not exist.
In a similar vein; if I decided to get rid of my Kal - will there be actual physical disks I can get hold of to reload into a different system, or is this a totally digital offering (it seems some of the other posts with more inside info than I have imply there is actually going to be a real physical disc somewhere).
I see one serious potential problem with UV being a central part of the functionality of the download store- I don't ever want to purchase a download movie at less than the quality of BR. Any changes in compression, sound formats, etc. would be bad if there was not an option to download the full spec BR equivalent.
This! Oh man this! Dark Side of the Moon in lossless as a download... Hdtracks as part of the download store... Complete security through the music not being able to be copied from the server...
There is a massive unofficial UV FAQ here:
http://www.uvdemystified.com/uvfaq.html
There is no VC1 support (and VC1 was viewed by some to be the better codec for picture quality). The top spec media profile is pretty good (1080p H264 with HD audio), but the content providers don't have to provide it. The other "HD" profile is only 720p with AC3/DTS audio. The SD profiles are just plain upsetting...!
Also, there is no menu structure etc for UV titles - just a main movie - so I guess you could offer special features but they'd end up being separate titles (which actually probably suits Kal, much of the work they do is to strip out menus etc).
It was interesting that on the photo Engadget had that download store and UV were separate lines - seems like us mere mortals won't find out the whole story for a while. Oh well, speculation is such fun... !
I would like to think that it should not matter whether I purchased a shiny disk in a store, or paid to download it via the K download store. Shouldn't I then posess an ownership right to that copy?
In a hypothetical scenario let's say I wanted to sell my server sometime in the future. Because K is a closed system, and I can't extract the downloaded material from it (to transfer them to some other system for instance). Shouldn't I be able to 'sell' my ownership rights to downloaded material to the purchaser?
With a tangible copy in hand, I could: (1) sell my dvd/blu-ray/cd collection independently of my Kaleidescape equipment; (2) keep them; (3) or give/sell the new owner the actual disks if I did not delete those titles from my server. How does this play out with downloaded material on a closed proprietary system?
In a hypothetical scenario let's say I wanted to sell my server sometime in the future. Because K is a closed system, and I can't extract the downloaded material from it (to transfer them to some other system for instance). Shouldn't I be able to 'sell' my ownership rights to downloaded material to the purchaser?
With a tangible copy in hand, I could: (1) sell my dvd/blu-ray/cd collection independently of my Kaleidescape equipment; (2) keep them; (3) or give/sell the new owner the actual disks if I did not delete those titles from my server. How does this play out with downloaded material on a closed proprietary system?
Just had a quick look at the UV q&a linked above. Is it possible that this is the solution to all K's woes?
What if the digital rights to everything put onto a K system was automatically stored in a UV digital rights locker? Given that UV appears to permit digital copies to be downloaded onto local systems, that would mean:
- no need to worry about CCA, as UV membership sorts this out;
- no need for blu ray discs to be physically held in the system as you have already acquired your digital rights through UV;
- if you changed to another system that was not K, presumably the UV rights locker wouldn't change, so you could download all your stuff to another system;
- in fact, I guess you could break out of K's closed system and stream/download your stuff to anything - iPads etc;
- if you had two houses - I guess many K owners probably do - and had two K systems then you don't need to buy two blu rays for both K systems
- works well with a download store idea
- erm ... can't think of any more benefits for now, but sounds quite compelling.
For existing customers i guess all the digital rights to everything on our K drives would have to be uploaded to each K owner's own UV account. Is this possible?
I don't know much about AV (or UV) so I might have completely misunderstood what UV is trying to achieve, but UV and K seem to be made for each other. But if that was true presumably something would have been rolled out by now.....
What if the digital rights to everything put onto a K system was automatically stored in a UV digital rights locker? Given that UV appears to permit digital copies to be downloaded onto local systems, that would mean:
- no need to worry about CCA, as UV membership sorts this out;
- no need for blu ray discs to be physically held in the system as you have already acquired your digital rights through UV;
- if you changed to another system that was not K, presumably the UV rights locker wouldn't change, so you could download all your stuff to another system;
- in fact, I guess you could break out of K's closed system and stream/download your stuff to anything - iPads etc;
- if you had two houses - I guess many K owners probably do - and had two K systems then you don't need to buy two blu rays for both K systems
- works well with a download store idea
- erm ... can't think of any more benefits for now, but sounds quite compelling.
For existing customers i guess all the digital rights to everything on our K drives would have to be uploaded to each K owner's own UV account. Is this possible?
I don't know much about AV (or UV) so I might have completely misunderstood what UV is trying to achieve, but UV and K seem to be made for each other. But if that was true presumably something would have been rolled out by now.....
cinelife
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These are all interesting conversations, and we don't yet have all the answers. What we all think we should be able to do with content we buy isn't necessarily what the licenses for use allow us to do. We sometimes forget that all of these services come with a license (contract) and when we "buy" the content we do so with whatever limitations exist in the license.
You don't necessarily own "all" the rights to the content (as in fee simple), but own whatever rights were agreed to in the contract (may be fee simple, but more likely a less than full bundle of rights which could restrict our ability to transfer to a new owner).
(Jumping in late here, currently at ND for the Stanford game and hanging around for the BYU game this Saturday.)
Jim
You don't necessarily own "all" the rights to the content (as in fee simple), but own whatever rights were agreed to in the contract (may be fee simple, but more likely a less than full bundle of rights which could restrict our ability to transfer to a new owner).
(Jumping in late here, currently at ND for the Stanford game and hanging around for the BYU game this Saturday.
)Jim
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https://twitter.com/uvvu/status/263087073794342912
Interesting retweet by Kaleidescape today -- again showing overt interest in UV.
Interesting retweet by Kaleidescape today -- again showing overt interest in UV.
Interesting.
One thing I would highlight with the current state of affairs where I live (east coast USA)- our internet is down- Im using my cell phone's hot spot.... while downloading would be out of the question for me, it also means streaming services like Apple TV are completely useless to me right now. Its very nice to have a server based system.
One thing I would highlight with the current state of affairs where I live (east coast USA)- our internet is down- Im using my cell phone's hot spot.... while downloading would be out of the question for me, it also means streaming services like Apple TV are completely useless to me right now. Its very nice to have a server based system.
