ITunes Synchronization

[Joe]

Hi folks,

I am brand new to the forum, although I've lurked here for well over a year. I am planning to purchase a 3U-based setup sometime this year, but have several questions I needed answered before proceeding. Some of these questions are regarding the k-scape's abilities w.r.t. music. Specifially, I am an AudioRequest F-series owner. Right now my wife, daughter and I simply mount the AR as a share from our respective laptops (running XP and Vista) and drag-n-drop MP3 folders and files onto ITunes. Everything gets processed and sync'd to our iPods where we can then do what we want. Everyone's iTunes collection is obvisously completely independent, so I have Miles Davis and not Miley Cyrus, etc.

With the k-scape, will we have that same freedom? I've heard of something called "Conductor". What is that, and how does it work with iTunes? It's really important that each of os be able to maintain our own iTunes collections. Also, can the k-scape deliver lossless formats to iTunes/iPods, since it maintains exact CD replicas on the server?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[josh]

Welcome to the forum Joe!

We have a multi-ipod, multi-PC house as well, and I think you can accomplish what you want. Keep in mind that Conductor is not a bi-directional synchronization (at least not yet)... it's a one-way system. Discs you have in Kaleidescape can be imported into iTunes, but NOT the other way around.

So let's start at the beginning. You take the REAL CDs (Kscape has no ability to import MP3s) and start to load up your CD collection. Your K-reader or Kplayer will load each disc one by one. The music is now available in the very elegant UI you've probably read about and seen in operation on your TVs and in other rooms if you have the k-music player.

OK, then for iTunes it goes like this... You install Conductor on any PCs that sync to an iPod. In our house, that's the kitchen computer (Vista, with separate logons for each of my kids and my wife) and in my home office (just for me). You install Conductor for each user's desktop separately (assuming you use multiple logins in Windows).

In it's default setup, Conductor will start importing ALL of your music onto the iTunes library of the PC and login you're using. But you can override this. We setup Kaleidescape Collections called "For Jessie's iTunes" and "For Jeremy's iTunes", etc. Add the albums each family member wants to their collection. (Fine for an album to be in multiple collections if multiple family members want it on their iTunes). Now your Kscape music collection is ready.

On each PC and each family members' desktop, you set up Conductor and you override its default setup... instead of choosing "Copy Entire Music Colection" (or something like that, i forget the wording), you choose "Copy A Specific Collection" and then pick the proper collection you made. (On Jeremy's Windows desktop, install Conductor and set it to "copy from Collection: "For Jeremy's iTunes", etc.)

Conductor will then begin its work transcoding and importing the music, all silently and in the background on your PC. It will take a while... several days if you have a big collection.

Note, if all family members use itunes but DON'T use separate windows logins and desktops, I'm not sure you'll be able to each get separate music selections copied over. You should be using either separate PCs, or a single PC with separate Windows logins. Otherwise you'll all have to agree on the set of music to copy to itunes.

Some other things to keep in mind: Conductor will take a LONG time to do it's work when you first start it up. I transcodes each music track into iTunes. It doesn't truly understand multiple users in an efficient way, so if you each want a particular album and there's 4 of you, it will transcode and store 4 separate copies of the MP3s it makes for each song on that album! Won't really affect you, other than taking up needless space on your PCs and taking a whole lot of time to copy the music for each user. But it all works very well... you get the album covers, proper track names, etc.

Another thing to remember - if you have Conductor set to copy ALL your music, you won't need to do a thing when you load up a new CD in Kaleidescape. Conductor will see a new album and copy it over to your itunes... then the next time you sync, your iPod will have the new album. But if you've changed Conductor to copy only music in a particular collection, as we did in my example above, then you must remember to use your onscreen interface or web interface to add that new album to the right collections for each family member that wants it.

Hope that's helpful.

--josh

 

[Joe]

Josh,

This is perfect - a very logical way to provide a multi-iPod environment! Thanks for the detailed description, that helps a lot.

Does Conductor provide lossless audio to ITunes, or are the files compressed? If compressed, can that compression be configured?

Joe

 

[josh]

Kaleidescape's music system is (I believe) truly lossless when playing back on any of the Kscape players. However, when you use Conductor to go to iTunes, it DOES convert to MP3s, which are of course never truly lossless. There's 3 quality settings (and you can pick them separately for each user if you set it up like I recommended above)... so you can pick the right one for you. I have mine set to Medium (which is still VERY good) to conserve some space... my wife's and kids are set to Low (which is still good enough for them on an ipod) and much more space efficient.

If you want to pick highest quality, go for it. You may be able to tell a difference. I couldn't.

And one other nice thing.. it all just works in the background. If you change the quality setting, Conductor will just silently start re-encoding your entire music collection... and as it finishes each album, it updates that user's iTunes and the new re-encoded tracks will be ready for sync next time the ipod connects. If you add albums to the proper collection, Conductor "notices" and starts encoding. If you remove an album, Conductor erases those MP3s and notifies iTunes and the albums are removed and space is freed up on your PC and ipod. It's all pretty slick.

 

[Joe]

Quite nice. Thanks for all the great info!

 

[josh]

One more thing, Joe... you may not have found this thread, but there are plenty of screen shots and detailed explanations of how Conductor works.

It's somewhat dated, as it was posted as Conductor was just coming out, but it hasn't changed that much at all. It will give you a better idea of how it all works.

http://www.kscapeowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213

 

[Croptop]

Another way to solve the multi-user, single computer issue is to:
1) Set up a user defined collection on the Kaleidescape for each user per Josh's instructions.
2) Have Conductor sync *everything* to the PC. In addition to copying all of the music to iTunes, Conductor creates iTunes playlists for each Kaleidescape Collection.
3) When each user syncs their iPod to iTunes, they can choose to sync to specific playlists rather than the entire library.

It's not quite as elegant as a multi-user/multi-PC setup since each user has to manually select the playlists they want synchronised to their iPods but it does work.

 

[Steven]

iTunes to K

Hi,

I imagine that this question has been asked a zillion times, but the K to iTunes config seems very slick. I imported most of my CDs to iTunes in a low quality, so I've lived with that for a long time. With Kaleidescape, I look forward to being able to recreate my library in a quality digital environment, with no loss.

I do, however, have quite a few songs that I have purchased via the iTunes store. I either cannot find the CD or it's some specialty music that I cannot find anywhere. Am I just SOL?

Thanks, Steven

 

[josh]

At least for now, yes. You can't get songs purchased from iTunes into Kaleidescape. Many of us remain hopeful now that iTunes is dropping DRM that Kaleidescape Conductor will permit true 2-way synchronization of music libraries. It's now technically possible, so I hope it's in the product roadmap at Kaleidescape.

--josh

 

[JerryL]

Yes you can, but it will be a painful process for a lot of songs.

1. Burn the song(s) to a CD.
2. Import that CD into K
3. Enter the info manually into K- do it as a compilation CD.

Since K is making a perfect copy of the data on the CD- you have not degraded the sound quality since the original compression iTunes.

 

[Steven]

Can you remind me, will Conductor overwrite the CDs that are duplicates? It won't put two copies of the same thing in iTunes, will it?

 

[Croptop]

Can you remind me, will Conductor overwrite the CDs that are duplicates? It won't put two copies of the same thing in iTunes, will it?

Conductor will not overwrite anything. If you already have an album in iTunes and another copy of it on your KServer (ie. you used JerryL's method above to copy iTunes Music Store purchases onto your KServer), Conductor will copy the album from your KServer to iTunes and you will have a duplicate album in iTunes.

 

[DigitalStudioWerks]

I thought I would post my 2 cent on iTunes, importing and sound quality.
First - Importing. What other have said in regards to importing is correct. You have to burn you iTunes music to a CD first and then import the CD into Kaleidescape. If you are burning whole albums and you check the option "Include CD Text" cover art and track information will show up so you do not have to manually add the information. I do not know if this work for mixed cd as I have not tried it.

Second - Sound Quality. If you are purchasing music from the iTunes store it is encoded at 256kb at the HIGHEST and it can be as low as 128kb. This is also most likely the case if you are ripping your own cd's to iTunes so you can listen on your computer or iPod. At a bit rate of 256KB your music file is just a fraction of the audio fidelity of a CD. Even though the Kaleidescape is a high end audio player you are feeding it low end files. Remember when you burn a CD where the source files are 128 or 256 kb and import that CD into Kaleidescape the music on your Kaleidescape system only be as high as the original files BR (Bit Rate) thus never coming close to or achieving true CD sound that the Kaleidescape can reproduce. Burning a 256kb file to a CD results in a 256kb CD. If you listen and compare that to a CD of the original you will hear a difference. Burning does not and in no way "Up Convert" the file to a higher BR.

I advise all my clients who are interested in Kaleidescape system for multi-zone audio NOT to purchase a Kaleidescape system if their music collection consists mainly of low BR music bought from stores like iTunes and not from a CD collection. There are other multi-zone audio solutions, which are less expensive then the Kaleidescape, designed for iPod/iTunes integration. With that said, if you do like to purchase your music online I HIGHLY suggest Music Giants. They sell lossless,downloadable music . I have purchased complete albums from Music Giants which delivers music in VERY HIGH WMA bit rate files, burned the album onto a CD and imported it into Kaleidescape. Just like a regular CD artist information and cover art is loaded from AMG into Kaleidescape.

Again, I HIGHLY suggest that, if you like to purchase music electronically then do it through Music Giants and stay away from services like the iTunes Music Store which sells at very low bit rates. You will end up with a much more enjoyable music listening experience with your Kaleidescape system.

My 2 cents.

 

[JerryL]

I agree. I also find that the stuff from iTunes store sounds fine via my little workout ipod but if I play it back via my meridian gear (861+8000 speakers) the sound is pretty mediocre and that is a bummer but not unexpected.

I buy CDs for anything there is more than 1 song I like and if the song is really good I might still buy the CD. IMHO this is the best practice.

 

[Steven]

Conductor/iTunes/Others

Hi,

Looking at a couple of the posts, I find it interesting how different people deal with music differently. With the musicgiants.com site, which I haven't looked at yet, can you still import the songs into iTunes? I ask because I don't think that there is any other way to get the songs on an iPod, is there?

I buy most of my music on CDs. In fact even if I only like one song, if I can find the CD I'll buy it Most of my iTunes purchases are songs that I just cannot find on CD anywhere. Out of my 10,000 or so songs, probably a couple hundred are from iTunes.

So if Conductor will not replace the music in iTunes, how does one get the higher quality music into iTunes? I ask because I had the majority of my music imported to iTunes with a medium quality setting, before I realized that it was at that setting and not the higher quality. Is there anything I can do with Kaleidescape, without having to pick and delete all of the CDs I have in iTunes?

Thanks, Steven

 

[DigitalStudioWerks]

With the musicgiants.com site, which I haven't looked at yet, can you still import the songs into iTunes? I ask because I don't think that there is any other way to get the songs on an iPod, is there?

So if Conductor will not replace the music in iTunes, how does one get the higher quality music into iTunes? I ask because I had the majority of my music imported to iTunes with a medium quality setting, before I realized that it was at that setting and not the higher quality.

The way to import music into iTunes at near CD quality is to import it as AIFF. Go into iTunes Preferences > General > Import Settings > Import Using = AIFF Encoder, Settings = Custom.

Custom Settings are as follows, Sample Rate = 44.1khz, Sample Size = 16 bits, Channels = Stereo. This will get you as close to CD as possible. BUT be aware that this will also eat up ALOT of disc space not only on your computer but also on your iPod.

If you have set iTunes to import using AIFF as described above then importing CD's from Music Giants will result if a higher fidelity file.

Here is a image showing an example of my iTunes songs that I imported at VERY high bit rates, 1411kb, using AIFF.

Hope that helps.

 

[Mars]

Hi,

Looking at a couple of the posts, I find it interesting how different people deal with music differently. With the musicgiants.com site, which I haven't looked at yet, can you still import the songs into iTunes? I ask because I don't think that there is any other way to get the songs on an iPod, is there?

Thanks, Steven

Steven - one other thing that I noticed after going on Music Giants for the first time is that it only supports Internet Explorer (for now - but they say they are "working on it"). So, if you have a Mac (or anyone else reading this thread has a Mac), it appears that you can't get music from there unless you have a PC or access to a PC.

I have a decent amount of purchased music from iTunes but they are mostly singles where I didn't want or need the whole album. I had purchased a few albums there until I realized how much it was compressed and how noticeable it is on a system versus through your earbuds. Now I just buy the CD's on Amazon with free shipping and load them directly into the Kaleidescape.

James - how does AIFF compare to Apple Lossless? Will the Music Giants music still play on an iPod...I see you can import it into iTunes, but I thought there was/is some issue about playing music from other "stores" on your iPod. Maybe that is irrelevant with iTunes Store being DRM free now?

 

[DigitalStudioWerks]

Steven - one other thing that I noticed after going on Music Giants for the first time is that it only supports Internet Explorer (for now - but they say they are "working on it"). So, if you have a Mac (or anyone else reading this thread has a Mac), it appears that you can't get music from there unless you have a PC or access to a PC.

We only have Macs here in the office and at home. We run boot camp and with Vista Ultimate. Thus able to use Music Giants.

James - how does AIFF compare to Apple Lossless

AIFF files are as near to CD quality as you can get. I have imported a few CD's using Apple Lossless but I do not get as high a bit rate file and I do notice a difference in sound. Most people will not hear a difference because of my "other" job (see next paragraph) I notice it. Especially in the studio.

A little background about me. As probably most on here know I am the owner of Digital Studio Werks, I am also a professional musician, drummer, and I do a lot of studio, session and touring work. When I have done a recording session I usually take the rough tracks home from the studio as AIFF file so I review that days session. Sort of like viewing the "Daily's"

Unlike Apples Lossless format, AIFF is used through out the music industry as an industry inside standard because of it's lossless high bit rate. For a variety of reasons, which is a different subject altogether, you will not see anything released by the studios as a AIFF for download. Since most, if not all, digital music players support AIFF playback you would think iTunes, Music Giants and others would sell CD quality AIFF files at a higher price. Especially since DRM is slowly fading away. Sorry for the rant there but you get my drift.

Will the Music Giants music still play on an iPod...I see you can import it into iTunes, but I thought there was/is some issue about playing music from other "stores" on your iPod. Maybe that is irrelevant with iTunes Store being DRM free now?

Actually once music that has DRM is burned to a CD that music loses it's DRM. So once you burn a CD with music you bought from Music Giants, if it has DRM, loses it's DRM. When you import that CD you burned, into iTunes (win or Mac) and you do it using AIFF you retain the highest quality audio file that you can get. Once the music is in iTunes it can now go on your iPod.

Hope that helps.

 

[Mars]

Thanks James - I completely understand - that is what I thought you were getting at re: the extra step of burning a CD, but just wanted to confirm - thanks for the info/education on the different digital formats. It definitely helps now that I am slowly developing an ear for this (or at least acquiring the equipment that helps my ear to distinguish)

 

[Steven]

Appending Library

Hi,

I have my new Mini-System up and running and am loading CDs and DVDs as quick as I can. Like most people that buy one, I've bought a lot of new ones since buying K.

I have an iTunes library of about 10,000 songs. I do not want to duplicate those from K, but I'd like to start adding them to the library via Conductor. Is there a way to pick and choose what you want to download to iTunes? I saw the post about creating playlists, but what I really want is just to add new CDs as they are added to K.

Does that make sense?

Thanks, Steven