Is IP control as reliable as IR or Serial?

[Mr. Big]

I want my next remote automation system to support IP control but I’ve read that IP is not as reliable as Serial or IR, that it’s laggy and unresponsive at times. I have zero experience with IP so have you found this to be true or am I reading feedback from a small minority of people who have had problems?

 

[Paulromi]

Serial , IP, IR in that order based on my experience.

 

[andy]

Definitely IP for me.

Andy

 

[J.Green]

IP is a much better option than IR in my opinion. You don't have to worry about line of sight with IP like you do with IR (unless you wire in IR repeaters). Just ensure that the devices you want to control with IP get the same IP address consistently. This is best done with IP address reservations on your router rather than configuring your devices with static IPs so that if you move the device to a new network, it will still get an IP address from the new DHCP server.

I use a Control4 system that controls all of my gear via IP and it's rock solid and responsive.

 

[josh]

OMG, no comparison. Infrared is a seriously flawed solution with modern equipment, not to mention creating line-of-sight issues that then require hacky repeaters that introduce their own reliability issues with analog signal capture and re-transmission.
I am also slowly banning anything infrared from all my setups... and will celebrate the day that i have no little red emitters and sensors on my equipment.

i wouldn't have thought about serial being the most reliable path, though now that it was mentioned I'm sure that is true.
But I can't see why a properly done IP solution would have anything other than perfect reliability unless you have LAN setup issues or something that get in the way, which should be quite rare.

 

[josh]

IP is a much better option than IR in my opinion. You don't have to worry about line of sight with IP like you do with IR (unless you wire in IR repeaters). Just ensure that the devices you want to control with IP get the same IP address consistently. This is best done with IP address reservations on your router rather than configuring your devices with static IPs so that if you move the device to a new network, it will still get an IP address from the new DHCP server.

I use a Control4 system that controls all of my gear via IP and it's rock solid and responsive.

ah, John points out a very good reminder about making sure your devices aren't getting DHCP IP address changes from your router. Like he points out, I have a reserved range of IP addresses that are excluded from DHCP and then I hard-set IP addresses to each device using its web interface on On-screen UI (like on an AppleTV or Roku) to make sure it always stays the same.

This can also be done for devices that don't have a nice easy web UI for setting their own manual IP addresses by having your router reserve an IP address based on a given device's MAC address... but I think it's typically much easier to do it on the device itself. I'd say the number of modern devices that don't support easily setting a manual IP addresses easily via web or on-screen UI is VERY small.

But if you've locked in IP addresses for your devices one way or the other, I don't see how you shouldn't expect 100% perfect execution of IP commands.

 

[DieZwei]

OMG, no comparison. Infrared is a seriously flawed solution with modern equipment, not to mention creating line-of-sight issues that then require hacky repeaters that introduce their own reliability issues with analog signal capture and re-transmission.

You can plug in an IR-connection directly from a control system into a Strato, no need for IR emitters/receiver. In such a setup, IR is 100% reliable. However, it´s only one-way, which makes it pretty out-dated for a modern control automation.

RS232 is indeed still the most stable control connection available, since it´s a 1:1 connection and once set up, nothing can happen to that like to an IP connection, where you can potentially have all kinds of network issues.
However, the IP control API of Kaleidescape is hands-down the best IP API i´ve come across in the industry (i´m a Crestron programmer). It´s super fast, very reliable and provides a lot of nice control functionality and feedback.
So if the network is in good shape, i´d always go for IP with K.

 

[LoveCinema]

RS232 is indeed still the most stable control connection available, since it´s a 1:1 connection and once set up, nothing can happen to that like to an IP connection, where you can potentially have all kinds of network issues.

JVC dropped RS232 from their "all new" models (500/700). I think it's pretty clear that IP is where everyone is going.

 

[DieZwei]

JVC dropped RS232 from their "all new" models (500/700). I think it's pretty clear that IP is where everyone is going.

Yes, agree. I think the "new generation" of automation programmers doesn´t even know what an RS232 connector is for.

 

[Mr. Big]

Thanks for all of the replies - now all we need is a choice of remotes that consumers can program themselves without having to pay a dealer. I'm hoping Unfolded Circle works out. I've been a URC user for the past 20 years but I'm forced to find an alternative seeing that their Total Control software is not consumer facing. Bummer.

 

[andy]

Thanks for all of the replies - now all we need is a choice of remotes that consumers can program themselves without having to pay a dealer. I'm hoping Unfolded Circle works out. I've been a URC user for the past 20 years but I'm forced to find an alternative seeing that their Total Control software is not consumer facing. Bummer.

I'm in the same boat as my Savant remote finally bit the big one and works 50% of the time if I'm lucky. I'm using their app on my phone as it works the same, but prefer a hard-button solution and may check out the Circle as well.

Andy

 

[Roderick Spode]

I'm in the same boat as my Savant remote finally bit the big one and works 50% of the time if I'm lucky. I'm using their app on my phone as it works the same, but prefer a hard-button solution and may check out the Circle as well.

Andy

Savant remotes can be found for a significant discount on eBay. Mine bit the dust and found 2 there like new that work perfectly.

 

[MikeKobb]

I have never had an issue with IP control of my Kaleidescape gear. I use a Control4 system and it’s absolutely rock solid.

Serial is fine, but every device needs a serial port on your controller, which can mean lots of additional hardware, and of course it’s problematic if any gear is not next to the controller.

Your Kaleidescape gear (and most gear, these days) is already going to have an IP connection anyway. Why not use it? If you want to make things as reliable as possible, I’d say make sure all of your controlled equipment is using Ethernet. That will be the case anyway for Kaleidescape equipment.

 

[MikeKobb]

Oh, let me add one other thing: both serial and IP have a huge advantage over IR in that they are bidirectional, so your control system can receive status information and do more sophisticated things than are possible with one-way control.

 

[gadgetman]

I have never had an issue with IP control of my Kaleidescape gear. I use a Control4 system and it’s absolutely rock solid.

Serial is fine, but every device needs a serial port on your controller, which can mean lots of additional hardware, and of course it’s problematic if any gear is not next to the controller.

Your Kaleidescape gear (and most gear, these days) is already going to have an IP connection anyway. Why not use it? If you want to make things as reliable as possible, I’d say make sure all of your controlled equipment is using Ethernet. That will be the case anyway for Kaleidescape equipment.

I agree IP control is best and that IR is not generally recommended. However, I might mention two caveats re: IP and Control4:

1) Apple TV is notoriously bad with Control4. In fact, I'm quite sure it took Control4 months to produce an IP driver that worked following an earlier Apple TV update. So, IR may be a reliable option for Apple TV, notwithstanding line-of-sight issues.

See the following link for more info: https://status.snapone.com/?utm_source=embed.

2) As I mentioned in a different post, the recent Strato V update rendered Control4 useless. Although the new Strato V driver on Kaleidescape's website resolved the issue, Control4 has not yet released this driver.

 

[MikeKobb]

I agree that there have been some issues with Apple TV control. I believe SnapOne says that Apple updated something that would cause the driver to lose communication. I did experience this, to the extent that I created a Siri shortcut to power cycle the outlet on my WattBox to restart my Apple TV. It’s supposedly fixed in tvOS 18.2.

Regarding #2: this was an unintended consequence of the publication of the new Strato V driver for Control4. Because Strato V has different hardware connections, we needed to publish a new driver, and to have that driver be auto-identified by Control4’s SDDP system, the Strato V needed to identify itself with a distinct product type. This had the unfortunate side effect of causing Control4 to lose connection if you were (a) using SDDP and (b) the Strato C driver to control your Strato V. You can continue to use the same driver if you make the connection in Composer Pro using the player’s IP address.

 

[MikeKobb]

I should also add: we do apologize for the disruption that this caused.

 

[gadgetman]

I should also add: we do apologize for the disruption that this caused.

No apology expected or necessary: It was a simple fix for Control4 since Kaleidescape provided the new Strato V driver on its website, which was easily downloaded and resolved the issue immediately.

P.S. According to the SnapOne website (whose link was provided above), Control4 is still trying to resolve the incompatibility of Apple TV and the Control4 Halo remote voice capability.

 

[DieZwei]

1) Apple TV is notoriously bad with Control4. In fact, I'm quite sure it took Control4 months to produce an IP driver that worked following an earlier Apple TV update. So, IR may be a reliable option for Apple TV, notwithstanding line-of-sight issues.

See the following link for more info: https://status.snapone.com/?utm_source=embed.

Apple is kown to not to care about any automation integration other than their own. This is not limited to Control4. If you´re doing IP control with an ATV, it´s wise to have IR in parallel as a fallback as a TVOS update can break IP control any time.
I wouldn´t expect that with Kaleidescape.

 

[Kevin D]

It seems the same with Roku now too. They broke integration earlier this year with an update, luckily, unlike Apple, fixed it within a few weeks.

But now they are pushing a new update that turns off third party control by default. You have to turn it back on with the Roku remote before IP control will work again.

Kevin D.