Does the Terra Server (disk prices) ever get reasonable?

[SterlingMax]

As an owner of four 48TB servers (purchased over a period of several years), I obviously made the decision that it was worth the high price of admission to have immediate access to all my movies and enjoy the unmatched ability to browse them (through list or wall view). And, since I own approximately 2,800 movies, I have the equivalent in cost of more than two 48TB Terra's, assuming $15 each title. (Ouch).

The price of the smallest-capacity Terra is not what strikes me as out-of-line: Rather, I believe that the incremental pricing for storage is the troubling part. The cost of doubling storage (e.g. from 12 to 24TB, 24 to 48TB, and 48 to 96TB) is more than 1.5 times. So, the price of a 96TB Terra is more than 4 times that of a 12TB server. This seems a bit extreme given the incremental cost of enterprise-grade drives and since the shells--and presumably most innards--of the 12/24TB servers and 48/96TB servers are the same). Said differently, the cost of a 96TB Terra is approximately $12K more than a 48TB Terra. Again, seems extreme.

The fact that those who choose to buy very large-storage Terra's will fill these lovely drives with tons of movies titles purchased from the Store provides at least a little more ammunition to the argument that incremental storage pricing should be lower.

That being said, I would do it all over again given the pleasure that I derive from the experience (so long as I don't think about what it cost me). Perhaps, that's why Kaleidescape has chosen this path since we all know that it has given careful consideration to pricing hardware.

I think we'd all like the things we wish to buy to be cheaper, but our willingness to pay the prices K charges is testament to the product value they deliver.

My disagreement with OP is that I think there is probably a relatively small proportion of people who are willing to pay thousands of dollars for a K player to avoid the quality of streaming but are unwilling to pay the price of a Terra server. I think most buyers are either in or out. Which is K's apparent bet with their pricing.

But I'd be as happy as everyone else to see the price of the larger Terra servers come down in price so I could upgrade mine!

 

[LoveCinema]

I never consider the cost of parts in my calculation of a device's value, particularly when it comes to home theater equipment. So, when it comes to the value proposition of a Terra I've always thought of it this way...

I can do this myself, and for close to the cost of parts, by simply ripping all of my discs onto a NAS. Now, let's set aside the cost of the NAS and just look at my own time, which I value rather highly and don't have enough of. I realize that ripping is a basic process, but I'm not the type to just click the button. I'm going to select specific components, assemble extras, maybe a remux here and there. All in all, I'd estimate up to 1 hour of my time per movie.

Now, the last time a company was billing a client for my time, a Terra would look cheap. But, I'll drop it down to the $20 minimum wage you find in all the fancy cities nowadays. At that rate, and based upon K's estimates, the 800 movies on a 48TB Terra would cost me $16,000 in labor. The 1600 movies on a 96TB Terra would cost me $32,000 in labor. Those devices currently retail at $18,000 and $30,000, plus the cost of the NAS I set aside earlier.

I realize that the Terras are expensive, I'm not arguing otherwise. I am saying that they have a pretty good value proposition.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

I never consider the cost of parts in my calculation of a device's value, particularly when it comes to home theater equipment. So, when it comes to the value proposition of a Terra I've always thought of it this way...

I can do this myself, and for close to the cost of parts, by simply ripping all of my discs onto a NAS. Now, let's set aside the cost of the NAS and just look at my own time, which I value rather highly and don't have enough of. I realize that ripping is a basic process, but I'm not the type to just click the button. I'm going to select specific components, assemble extras, maybe a remux here and there. All in all, I'd estimate up to 1 hour of my time per movie.

Now, the last time a company was billing a client for my time, a Terra would look cheap. But, I'll drop it down to the $20 minimum wage you find in all the fancy cities nowadays. At that rate, and based upon K's estimates, the 800 movies on a 48TB Terra would cost me $16,000 in labor. The 1600 movies on a 96TB Terra would cost me $32,000 in labor. Those devices currently retail at $18,000 and $30,000, plus the cost of the NAS I set aside earlier.

I realize that the Terras are expensive, I'm not arguing otherwise. I am saying that they have a pretty good value proposition.

Some people enjoy the process of it all, even I did initially because it was fun and exciting filling up the posterwall and having instant access. Then the repetition and time sink set it and months of backing up movies was an absolute chore!

A lot of the people who have actually paid for discs and backed them up who are probably the market K are looking to lure across are reluctant for three very good reasons beyond just the price.

Firstly the time and effort they have spent creating their own servers and poster walls with all their movies on, kind of like when someone spends ages doing up a house getting it just how the like and then doesn’t want to move.

Secondly the other barrier is, if you have a big movie collection already, you’re now needing to re-buy everything if you want it on KScape to have everything in one place. Now whilst D2D has been made a lot easier and somewhat alleviates the issue, it’s still going to cost $1000’s to transfer over and there is no getting around that.

Lastly the fear of losing everything if K disappear and people are still reluctant to move to digital and like have a physical backup whether than be discs or hard drives.

Personally if the cheaper Strato’s had been a thing around the time I was exploring UHD movies I would have gone for them and it actually probably would have worked out cheaper upgrading from Blurays to 4K digital but alas once you have a large 4K collection it’s not as clear cut.

 

[SterlingMax]

I never consider the cost of parts in my calculation of a device's value, particularly when it comes to home theater equipment. So, when it comes to the value proposition of a Terra I've always thought of it this way...

I can do this myself, and for close to the cost of parts, by simply ripping all of my discs onto a NAS. Now, let's set aside the cost of the NAS and just look at my own time, which I value rather highly and don't have enough of. I realize that ripping is a basic process, but I'm not the type to just click the button. I'm going to select specific components, assemble extras, maybe a remux here and there. All in all, I'd estimate up to 1 hour of my time per movie.

Now, the last time a company was billing a client for my time, a Terra would look cheap. But, I'll drop it down to the $20 minimum wage you find in all the fancy cities nowadays. At that rate, and based upon K's estimates, the 800 movies on a 48TB Terra would cost me $16,000 in labor. The 1600 movies on a 96TB Terra would cost me $32,000 in labor. Those devices currently retail at $18,000 and $30,000, plus the cost of the NAS I set aside earlier.

I realize that the Terras are expensive, I'm not arguing otherwise. I am saying that they have a pretty good value proposition.

I agree, cost-plus is the wrong framework, even though it's intuitively correct. Virtually all luxury goods will seem terribly overpriced when considered this way (e.g. Rolex watches, YETI coolers, Stewart screens, etc...)

 

[thrillcat]

Some people enjoy the process of it all, even I did initially because it was fun and exciting filling up the posterwall and having instant access. Then the repetition and time sink set it and months of backing up movies was an absolute chore!

I was the same way, but when you really think about what this is, "the process" is the work required in faking the Kaleidescape experience that you can get with the swipe of a credit card and click of a button.

 

[OCD2]

Some people enjoy the process of it all, even I did initially because it was fun and exciting filling up the posterwall and having instant access. Then the repetition and time sink set it and months of backing up movies was an absolute chore!

A lot of the people who have actually paid for discs and backed them up who are probably the market K are looking to lure across are reluctant for three very good reasons beyond just the price.

Firstly the time and effort they have spent creating their own servers and poster walls with all their movies on, kind of like when someone spends ages doing up a house getting it just how the like and then doesn’t want to move.

Secondly the other barrier is, if you have a big movie collection already, you’re now needing to re-buy everything if you want it on KScape to have everything in one place. Now whilst D2D has been made a lot easier and somewhat alleviates the issue, it’s still going to cost $1000’s to transfer over and there is no getting around that.

Lastly the fear of losing everything if K disappear and people are still reluctant to move to digital and like have a physical backup whether than be discs or hard drives.

Personally if the cheaper Strato’s had been a thing around the time I was exploring UHD movies I would have gone for them and it actually probably would have worked out cheaper upgrading from Blurays to 4K digital but alas once you have a large 4K collection it’s not as clear cut.

But you can never have everything on Kscape so you will always need a disk player unless you don't want to watch those movies (Criterion, etc.).

 

[SterlingMax]

I was the same way, but when you really think about what this is, "the process" is the work required in faking the Kaleidescape experience that you can get with the swipe of a credit card and click of a button.

Yeah I "liked the process" right up until the point where I could actually afford a Kaleidescape system.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

But you can never have everything on Kscape so you will always need a disk player unless you don't want to watch those movies (Criterion, etc.).

Well in the UK at least a lot of the UHD discs aren’t even available here, I was having to import them from all over, US, Japan, Australia etc. and paying well over the odds.

There is not enough time in the day to watch all the films I want plus do other things so missing a few here or there really doesn’t bother me anymore. Would I like to watch Godzilla Minus One, sure but I’m not going to lose any sleep over it if I don’t. I’ve started compiling my list of films I have which aren’t available on K, I’m about 30% through and so far only 5 films aren’t available so for me I’m not missing much not buying discs anymore but it saves me a lot of hassle not backing them up to my NAS. I will keep both though because I have 3D films on the NAS which I enjoy and KScape doesn’t offer.

Yeah I "liked the process" right up until the point where I could actually afford a Kaleidescape system.

It’s interesting because I know people who have home cinemas which cost 6 figures who still won’t switch to KScape out of principal because of the cost of the terras. I did the same for a long time with GPU’s and Nvidia’s ridiculous price increases but ultimately I had to buckle because I needed more power for VR, the prices aren’t coming down so I could have either waited it out another few years until the cheaper models were powerful enough or pay $2000 now for a RTX5090. And that is surely a bigger loss of money since 10 years from now it will be obsolete!

 

[Edgar]

I now accept the price of the server, now that I have it. It completes the thing I want to have — a vertically integrated cinema source that looks and feels elegant and seamless — and this is the cost of having it. Now that I’ve paid it, I don’t think about it, I just enjoy it.

Plus, like some other things I’ve previously considered overpriced, like a Jura coffee machine, I’ve found that i use and enjoy it so much that I surprisingly get my full value out of it and then some. I use my K a lot. At least twice a week. Most of the time I have a movie night party. And I enjoy it immensely when I’m using it. The UI adapts to a scope screen, and that plus the cover wall is not only a visually pleasant combination, it’s an effective browse experience for me, better than Plex or Infuse. I can find a single movie out of hundreds more easily when there’s more icons on screen and I can scroll horizontally as well as vertically. I can’t say I enjoy the full usage value of many things I’ve spent just $200 on, many of which I haven’t looked at since.

As for enjoying the DIY process, there are some aspects of curating my Plex that I love, but the scarce retail angst of preordering and dealing with slipped shipping, plus backing up the discs, it’s all just stressful and busywork to me. Especially if I make a frustrating mistake, like forgetting to let the English subtitles remain the default on a Japanese film, and then I need to fix it or redo it. I just don’t need to deal with my own human labor and my own human error, or simply incur additional cognitive load on the addition of new content, when wanting to relax with my home theater, which is otherwise set up to be seamless and “just works.”

 

[Rooster]

Plus, like some other things I’ve previously considered overpriced, like a Jura coffee machine, I’ve found that i use and enjoy it so much that I surprisingly get my full value out of it and then some.”

The Jura comparison is very apt. I had a Jura for several years, decided to take a shot at a semi-auto so sold it and bought a San Remo. Almost immediately I regretted it - the hassle of grinding, tamping and manually pulling shots was something I loathed in the morning. After about a month I sold this setup to go back to the elegance and simplicity of a Jura. Luckily, I was able to re-buy before the tarrif price hike

 

[Furnace Inferno]

I now accept the price of the server, now that I have it. It completes the thing I want to have — a vertically integrated cinema source that looks and feels elegant and seamless — and this is the cost of having it. Now that I’ve paid it, I don’t think about it, I just enjoy it.

Plus, like some other things I’ve previously considered overpriced, like a Jura coffee machine, I’ve found that i use and enjoy it so much that I surprisingly get my full value out of it and then some. I use my K a lot. At least twice a week. Most of the time I have a movie night party. And I enjoy it immensely when I’m using it. The UI adapts to a scope screen, and that plus the cover wall is not only a visually pleasant combination, it’s an effective browse experience for me, better than Plex or Infuse. I can find a single movie out of hundreds more easily when there’s more icons on screen and I can scroll horizontally as well as vertically. I can’t say I enjoy the full usage value of many things I’ve spent just $200 on, many of which I haven’t looked at since.

As for enjoying the DIY process, there are some aspects of curating my Plex that I love, but the scarce retail angst of preordering and dealing with slipped shipping, plus backing up the discs, it’s all just stressful and busywork to me. Especially if I make a frustrating mistake, like forgetting to let the English subtitles remain the default on a Japanese film, and then I need to fix it or redo it. I just don’t need to deal with my own human labor and my own human error, or simply incur additional cognitive load on the addition of new content, when wanting to relax with my home theater, which is otherwise set up to be seamless and “just works.”

In all honesty my Zidoo setup isn’t much different to the KScape one now but the effort it took me to make it perfect was insane. I could have watched 100’s if not 1000’s of movies in the time I spent putting it together.

I’ve got everything in MKV files to remove all the disc ads, all extras named, individual folders for everything, movies over two discs I’ve seamlessly muxed into one file like LOTR EE, forced subtitle flags on every film with foreign language segments so subtitles activate automatically, 3D films where I’ve muxed the Atmos audio track and time aligned it all.

Honestly it’s perfect and actually adding new ones isn’t all that bad, I would still need to go on DVDCompare and name each file and wait for it to transfer but actually getting the discs, storing them, maintaining the NAS which is actually full now and a big reason I jumped across and the disc drive would often just glitch out more recently requiring multiple PC reboots, just not worth the effort for me anymore.

If someone can’t afford it I can understand sticking to a NAS or even those who stick to discs and don’t get why you’d spend money on a server but I will happily pay someone to manage it for me because the cost saving doing it myself is not worth my time and near enough everything is about paying not to have your time wasted. I’ve got plenty of other DIY to do around the house which saves me exponentially more money!

 

[Edgar]

The Jura comparison is very apt. I had a Jura for several years, decided to take a shot at a semi-auto so sold it and bought a San Remo. Almost immediately I regretted it - the hassle of grinding, tamping and manually pulling shots was something I loathed in the morning. After about a month I sold this setup to go back to the elegance and simplicity of a Jura. Luckily, I was able to re-buy before the tarrif price hike

You got it! In high school I was a barista (From Barista to Barrister), and I always used a Gaggia in my adult life to make espressos manually until I saw that the Jura was actually as good or better than me. From that moment, my Jura makes my espressos every morning, including a moment ago. It's perfect every time. The device also has one or two extra zeros on the price from the POV of a machine that makes coffee, or the rough cost of the parts. I'm glad you were able to rewind back to getting to a Jura! (How Rooster got his Jura Back).

People often compare Kaleidescape to an iPhone or a Tesla, but I think Jura and Peloton are more accurate. I have all five devices, and yes all have one or two extra zeros in the price. But the K, J, and P all automate and simplify the standard manual and cognitive processes that we would have to endure but for the unique automated, simplified, vertically integrated option that K, J, and P offer.

In all honesty my Zidoo setup isn’t much different to the KScape one now but the effort it took me to make it perfect was insane. I could have watched 100’s if not 1000’s of movies in the time I spent putting it together.

I’ve got everything in MKV files to remove all the disc ads, all extras named, individual folders for everything, movies over two discs I’ve seamlessly muxed into one file like LOTR EE, forced subtitle flags on every film with foreign language segments so subtitles activate automatically, 3D films where I’ve muxed the Atmos audio track and time aligned it all.

Honestly it’s perfect and actually adding new ones isn’t all that bad, I would still need to go on DVDCompare and name each file and wait for it to transfer but actually getting the discs, storing them, maintaining the NAS which is actually full now and a big reason I jumped across and the disc drive would often just glitch out more recently requiring multiple PC reboots, just not worth the effort for me anymore.

If someone can’t afford it I can understand sticking to a NAS or even those who stick to discs and don’t get why you’d spend money on a server but I will happily pay someone to manage it for me because the cost saving doing it myself is not worth my time and near enough everything is about paying not to have your time wasted. I’ve got plenty of other DIY to do around the house which saves me exponentially more money!

Totally, that is the cognitive load I just don't have time for in my free time. In my case, this effort isn't in the past, it's in the present. Kaleidescape ironically got me into Plex/NAS, since now I expect my movies on server. And half my movies aren't on K. So I've spent a big part of this summer working on ripping and uploading discs, with extras labeled, organized, and whatnot, but it's still ongoing since most of my new release movie purchases are on disc. In fact, that example of ripping the Japanese film wrong was from last night and this morning, getting Hidden Fortress to play with the right defaults (it looks fantastic though!!). Looking at the numbers for just new releases in the past year, here's how my purchases made it to my servers:

New release 4K HDR discs purchased ripped to Plex

1. Seven Samurai (BFI)
2. The Searchers (WB)
3. Godzilla (Criterion)
4. The Chronicles of Riddick (Arrow)
5. The Usual Suspects (Arrow)
6. The Keep (Vinegar Syndrome)
7. Watership Down (BFI)
8. Demolition Man (Arrow)
9. The Hitcher (Second Sight)
10. Yojimbo/Sanjuro (BFI)
11. The African Queen (StudioCanal)
12. Throne of Blood (BFI)
13. Dark City (Arrow)
14. Brazil (Criterion)
15. Barry Lyndon (Criterion)
16. Hidden Fortress (BFI)
17. Time Bandits (Arrow)
18. Re-Animator (Ignite)

New release 4K HDR movies purchased (or D2D) and downloaded to K

1. Nosferatu (Uni)
2. Amadeus (WB)
3. Tombstone (Sony)
4. Sinners (SIT-WB)
5. Lethal Weapon (WB)
6. Sunset Boulevard (Para)
7. Kingdom of Heaven (Sony)
8. Master and Commander (20th)
9. Jurassic World Rebirth (SIT-Uni)

I do wish I didn't have to deal with the disc thing anymore, and that all my movies got the AAA treatment on K, but at least K takes care of one third of the new releases I want.

Notes: I may have missed some, and misattributed some titles as new releases. Also, I'm buying a lot more existing or non-new-release titles on K than on disc, especially in D2D. I didn't include those as I figured sharing the new releases info would be more apples-to-apples for folks here. Plus, the "Still in Theaters" program is a huge advantage over everything else, and contributes much more to my enjoyment than implied as just another numerical entry in the list.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

You got it! In high school I was a barista (From Barista to Barrister), and I always used a Gaggia in my adult life to make espressos manually until I saw that the Jura was actually as good or better than me. From that moment, my Jura makes my espressos every morning, including a moment ago. It's perfect every time. The device also has one or two extra zeros on the price from the POV of a machine that makes coffee, or the rough cost of the parts. I'm glad you were able to rewind back to getting to a Jura! (How Rooster got his Jura Back).

People often compare Kaleidescape to an iPhone or a Tesla, but I think Jura and Peloton are more accurate. I have all five devices, and yes all have one or two extra zeros in the price. But the K, J, and P all automate and simplify the standard manual and cognitive processes that we would have to endure but for the unique automated, simplified, vertically integrated option that K, J, and P offer.



Totally, that is the cognitive load I just don't have time for in my free time. In my case, this effort isn't in the past, it's in the present. Kaleidescape ironically got me into Plex/NAS, since now I expect my movies on server. And half my movies aren't on K. So I've spent a big part of this summer working on ripping and uploading discs, with extras labeled, organized, and whatnot, but it's still ongoing since most of my new release movie purchases are on disc. In fact, that example of ripping the Japanese film wrong was from last night and this morning, getting Hidden Fortress to play with the right defaults (it looks fantastic though!!). Looking at the numbers for just new releases in the past year, here's how my purchases made it to my servers:

New release 4K HDR discs purchased ripped to Plex

1. Seven Samurai (BFI)
2. The Searchers (WB)
3. Godzilla (Criterion)
4. The Chronicles of Riddick (Arrow)
5. The Usual Suspects (Arrow)
6. The Keep (Vinegar Syndrome)
7. Watership Down (BFI)
8. Demolition Man (Arrow)
9. The Hitcher (Second Sight)
10. Yojimbo/Sanjuro (BFI)
11. The African Queen (StudioCanal)
12. Throne of Blood (BFI)
13. Dark City (Arrow)
14. Brazil (Criterion)
15. Barry Lyndon (Criterion)
16. Hidden Fortress (BFI)
17. Time Bandits (Arrow)
18. Re-Animator (Ignite)

New release 4K HDR movies purchased (or D2D) and downloaded to K

1. Nosferatu (Uni)
2. Amadeus (WB)
3. Tombstone (Sony)
4. Sinners (SIT-WB)
5. Lethal Weapon (WB)
6. Sunset Boulevard (Para)
7. Kingdom of Heaven (Sony)
8. Master and Commander (20th)
9. Jurassic World Rebirth (SIT-Uni)

I do wish I didn't have to deal with the disc thing anymore, and that all my movies got the AAA treatment on K, but at least K takes care of one third of the new releases I want.

Notes: I may have missed some, and misattributed some titles as new releases. Also, I'm buying a lot more existing or non-new-release titles on K than on disc, especially in D2D. I didn't include those as I figured sharing the new releases info would be more apples-to-apples for folks here. Plus, the "Still in Theaters" program is a huge advantage over everything else, and contributes much more to my enjoyment than implied as just another numerical entry in the list.

The Arrow omissions are certainly annoying but I don’t really want to reward them for withholding stuff from digital stores either and the screwed the Donnie Darko UHD release, my theatrical copy still stutters and they won’t replace the limited edition disc! It is one missing from KScape completely and they have a few 4K releases you can’t get in digital but if all I can get on KScape is HD it’s not the worst thing, they still look and sound incredible outside of the bad masters. Perhaps I’ve become too relaxed but I don’t miss when I couldn’t watch anything without obsessing about black levels, banding etc. although cinema’s with DLP’s that have terrible blacks are a no go!

I’ve checked my movies by release date and I’ve bought 44 movies released in the last 18 months and have another 8 in the wish list. All of the older films I want (that I remember) I’ve already bought so I don’t really keep on top of updated versions and release schedule. For the most part I wouldn’t even know if something is available on UHD and not on K because I don’t even check disc releases anymore it’s honestly liberating although I’m now a slave to the sales and I keep buying more films I wouldn’t have seen or remembered about. It takes me back to the days of browsing DVDs in Virgin megastores or VHS’s in Blockbusters where you’d just go through every film on offer.

I certainly don’t envy you having to backup discs still because it just isn’t fun. I had my pre-order for Mission Impossible Final Reckoning activate yesterday and I knew what it was the second it flashed up on my bank account and all I had to do was pre-order and the rest is done. I really hope when discs do go everyone fully commits to KScape and providing the best quality because if we end up in a world where there is only streaming, I’ll be spending the rest of my days only watching what we already have because the audio outside of discs/KScape is just awful. I’d probably even seriously consider converting the cinema room to something else so let’s hope that doesn’t come to pass.

 

[LoveCinema]

The Arrow omissions are certainly annoying but I don’t really want to reward them for withholding stuff from digital stores either and the screwed the Donnie Darko UHD release, my theatrical copy still stutters and they won’t replace the limited edition disc! I

Arrow only has digital rights to about 10% of their 4K titles. Oddly, Donnie Darko is one of them. So, if K ever got an Arrow contract, we could get that one.

I really hope when discs do go everyone fully commits to KScape and providing the best quality because if we end up in a world where there is only streaming, I’ll be spending the rest of my days only watching what we already have because the audio outside of discs/KScape is just awful. I’d probably even seriously consider converting the cinema room to something else so let’s hope that doesn’t come to pass.

It's been a while since we watched a physical movie format die, but if you want to see the future of Blu-ray (including UHD) you can look at 3D Blu-rays right now. Nearly all studios have abandoned them, there's a few specialty releases a year, and recently a foreign boutique stepped in to license from a couple of studios. Fewer and fewer releases, and chasing down the last movies you can still get. With all of the work on cost on your side, you can maybe get half of the limited theatrical releases. Meanwhile, everything is available digitally.

It's coming. Let's hope K gets bigger and stronger and can keep being that quality source for us.

 

[Edgar]

Arrow only has digital rights to about 10% of their 4K titles. Oddly, Donnie Darko is one of them. So, if K ever got an Arrow contract, we could get that one.

It's been a while since we watched a physical movie format die, but if you want to see the future of Blu-ray (including UHD) you can look at 3D Blu-rays right now. Nearly all studios have abandoned them, there's a few specialty releases a year, and recently a foreign boutique stepped in to license from a couple of studios. Fewer and fewer releases, and chasing down the last movies you can still get. With all of the work on cost on your side, you can maybe get half of the limited theatrical releases. Meanwhile, everything is available digitally.

It's coming. Let's hope K gets bigger and stronger and can keep being that quality source for us.

Hmm. To me it's not 3D Blu-Rays, which are genuinely an endangered species with no habitat (almost no players or current displays) but more a return to the Laserdisc era, and thus a highly specialized species that is doing okay on its island habitat (some players left, all displays). Where enthusiasts paid 150% for a large specialty physical disc, while most consumers paid less for less quality, but in a more convenient form factor that was more usable for different things.

 

[FURY]

The Jura comparison is very apt. I had a Jura for several years, decided to take a shot at a semi-auto so sold it and bought a San Remo. Almost immediately I regretted it - the hassle of grinding, tamping and manually pulling shots was something I loathed in the morning. After about a month I sold this setup to go back to the elegance and simplicity of a Jura. Luckily, I was able to re-buy before the tarrif price hike

Well, some decades ago, I got the 1st Jura in the neighbourhood, which engineered a buying spree, after the laughter abated, at my cost of entry, for that piece. However, it was the wives, who just had to have that appliance on their countertops, for the most part...and the quality of "coffee bean" output, was pretty much meaningless.

I quickly went to the LaMarzocco GS3, custom panels and red on steel logo, and a Ceado grinder, etc.. The price of entry for that kit was close enough to K with server and player, but the hardware aesthetic of the K was not a factor. Now, I have been very satisfied with the change out, in terms of the quality of "coffee bean" produced, and ease of use. BUT, there was no stampede to purchase the kit last referenced, as there wasn't for the K kit, in the theatre, as there was reluctance to go the whole theatre buildout.

At any rate, for me both K and LaMarzocco were and continue to be very worthwhile purchases. BTW, the only thing that bothered me about the Jura was the storage bean hopper, near to heated electronics, etc., but the effluent, is still pleasing for many.

thank you very much

FURY

 

[AEG]

Human nature, if they lowered their price, with time, we be complaining again.
Jim nailed it, there is little to no profit in the content, the hardware sales keep the lights on.
Years ago an insider at kscape shared their licensing fee with me for just one of the major studios, I was shocked.
Knowing what I know, we're lucky to have such a service.

 

[SterlingMax]

The Jura comparison is very apt. I had a Jura for several years, decided to take a shot at a semi-auto so sold it and bought a San Remo. Almost immediately I regretted it - the hassle of grinding, tamping and manually pulling shots was something I loathed in the morning. After about a month I sold this setup to go back to the elegance and simplicity of a Jura. Luckily, I was able to re-buy before the tarrif price hike

Totally agree. I used to do chemex pour over every morning. Then I got a Technivorm (I prefer American-style drip coffee) and never looked back.

 

[thrillcat]

Totally agree. I used to do chemex pour over every morning. Then I got a Technivorm (I prefer American-style drip coffee) and never looked back.

We've gotten incredibly off topic but somehow it's still the right conversation. I replaced my Moccamaster this last winter with a Terra Kaffe TK-02. Well, I bought my partner the TK-02 for Christmas, and almost immediately got hooked on almond milk cortados. By the end of the holiday break I was deep cleaning the Technivorm and putting it in the cabinet long term.

 

[audioguy123]

There is no "value proposition" to Kaleidescape. Their pricing for storage is simply their price for storage. Just as there isn't a "value proposition" to a $750,000 sports car - or for that matter, a $400,000 Christie Eclipse. If you want what the product offers, and have the disposable income, then you get to decide. Who NEEDS a $40,000 surround processor? The entire "high end" of the home theater market is a niche of a niche of a niche of a niche. So K fits right in. We, as a society [in many markets] have shifted from quality to convenience. Once in a great while, they are the same.

And while I have no doubt that K is primarily a hardware company, no amount of professing that they make zero dollars on movies will ever convince me of such. Given that, the more players they can get into the market, the more movies they will sell. And I am still convinced that the introduction of these less expensive player was brilliant - as I am also persuaded that a large number of those buyers will eventually buy more storage.