Does the Terra Server (disk prices) ever get reasonable?

[LoveCinema]

And while I have no doubt that K is primarily a hardware company, no amount of professing that they make zero dollars on movies will ever convince me of such.

I don't think anyone is arguing that they make no money from movie sales, just that digital sales can't support the company (by a HUGE stretch).

Here's the estimated user counts of the most popular digital movie stores:
Amazon Prime Video (200M)
Apple TV App/iTunes (90M)
Fandango at Home/Vudu (60M)
Google/YouTube (40M)

Companies that have sold or shutdown their digital movie stores in the last five years:
Microsoft ($3.76T)
Walmart ($817B)
Sony ($173B)

Kaleidescape is a private company, but I don't think I'd be offending anyone if I said their value can be counted in millions not billions and their customer base is in the tens of thousands and not tens of millions.

 

[artur9]

...
Fandango at Home/Vudu (60M)
...

And the A.I. says Fandango is still losing money at that.

For instance, in the period ending February 29, 2024, Fandango Holdings PLC reported a net loss of £0.78 million. The company's financial statements also show negative operating income and net income, with a net loss margin of -1.00% for the same period.

So K needs more that 60M subscribers?

 

[LoveCinema]

So K needs more that 60M subscribers?

No.

It's assumed that with such a niche product focused on movie purchases that each consumer is buying substantially more titles than the average Fandango user. But, it does point out that these self-sustaining stores have to have millions of transactions to keep up with the licensing fees for all of their content (Apple & Fandango basically "get everything").

In the past, one of the biggest complaints about the content in the K Store is the perspective that every title needs to justify its existence. If only a few dozen people are going to buy a title, there's no point in K adding it as it won't cover the licensing fee. And, K owners previously took the position that spending tens of thousands of dollars on hardware subsidizes the K store and our weird little requests should be filled. (Not every title can be Maverick.)

So, outside of an exponential explosion in hardware sales, I'm not sure that I see a self-sustaining video store. I'd love to be wrong.

 

[techted]

Not yet in 'reasonable' territory but the cost of the 8TB SSD Terra Server has gone done in the summer (in the UK anyway). From close to £10k, it can now be had for under £8k. Still expensive but the trend is going downwards at least which is good considering prices of almost everything is going up.

Was tempted but ended up getting the 12TB spinner instead as it is >£1k cheaper with 4GB more storage.

 

[Calm-One]

Throwing my two cents on the table...

Kscape seem to follow a Tesla's sales model (without the Musk or Cyber sideshows) and to an extent their minimal marketing model.
It's weird that I keep trending towards buying into these types of product ecosystems.

Kscape offers the Terra's for the A/V enthusiast crowd. Like Tesla has Model S and X. That attracts that part of the community.
Hard to get sales #s from either company but suspected to be the lowest selling products.

Kscape offers the Strata's with the built in drive for the getting started A/V hobbyist crowd. Like Tesla has Model 3 and Ys. That attracts that part of the community.
Again. hard to get sales #s from Kscape, but in Tesla's case who does, they are much more popular. I imagine the same is true for Kscape for this line.

It seems like Kscape is trying to play to a significant part of the community despite being niche. It also seems to be a fairly risk adverse strategy.

I can think of many A/V companies that have tried to make a push towards volume and now their gone or some insignificant subsidiary of someone who probably bought them for their name and logo. Looking at you Pioneer Elite (I still miss their AVRs and Plasmas), Escient (Fireball anyone?), Runco (best projectors in their day), et cetera.

Cheers

 

[cinelife]

........Runco (best projectors in their day), et cetera.

Cheers

Everytime I see that name it brings back some great memories. I'm sure there are others posting here that have the same feeling. They had some incredible projectors at that time. Sam was (is) a character, and a great guy, loved his parties back in the day. There is so much about him and Lori that helped build the AV world we all currenty inhabit. I'll bet most people didn't know he trademarked the term "home theater" back in the mid-80's. A true pioneer. I remember feeling somewhat sad when he told me he planned on selling the company, I knew it would never be the same....and it wasn't, but still great memories of that period!

Jim

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Back around 2002 I attended the Runco CES Party at a Las Vegas hotel. What fun! I got to know Sam some as I had him as a Special Guest answering questions for a week at my subforum - Special Guest Forum - at AVS Forum back in the days. What a nice guy! And I talked to a number of folks at the party who had nothing but good things to say about Sam. A real pioneer - and a real nice guy.

 

[cinelife]

I remember that sub-forum, you did a great job back then Steve!

Jim

 

[Kevin D]

Still have one of my Runco shot glass lanyards somewhere around here. Awesome times.

Kevin D.

 

[RobT]

Ultimately, I think these are Veblen goods, somewhat like luxury Swiss watches, although in this instance, unlike the mechanical watch, the luxury A/V product is superior to the mass market streaming or DVD player through a 65" OLED with a soundbar. Nevertheless, as Veblen goods, they don't respond to typical market forces. So, exclusivity via higher price and brand signalling paradoxically makes them more attractive to their particular market.

If my thesis is correct and this is how K views its market positioning, I imagine they'd be very hesitant to try and turn a Moon watch into a Moon Swatch. There is simply no competing with Apple on Apple's terms, even with a higher quality product, because streaming is now mature enough that it simply satisfies the mass market's appetite for A/V quality.

In my view, their current path as a defiantly expensive, luxury niche experience product, is the safest bet on longevity. The day K goes mainstream is the day it gets steamrolled.

 

[gadgetman]

Everytime I see that name it brings back some great memories. I'm sure there are others posting here that have the same feeling. They had some incredible projectors at that time. Sam was (is) a character, and a great guy, loved his parties back in the day. There is so much about him and Lori that helped build the AV world we all currenty inhabit. I'll bet most people didn't know he trademarked the term "home theater" back in the mid-80's. A true pioneer. I remember feeling somewhat sad when he told me he planned on selling the company, I knew it would never be the same....and it wasn't, but still great memories of that period!

Jim

Talk about memories--this one better forgotten: I purchased the flagship Runco plasma TV back in 2008 at the same time that I purchased some K-Scape Premiere components. I'm embarrassed to even let anyone know what it cost--but I will say it makes current pricing of Kaleidescape Terra's seem inexpensive. It was good, but it wasn't that good.

 

[cinelife]

Talk about memories--this one better forgotten: I purchased the flagship Runco plasma TV back in 2008 at the same time that I purchased some K-Scape Premiere components. I'm embarrassed to even let anyone know what it cost--but I will say it makes current pricing of Kaleidescape Terra's seem inexpensive. It was good, but it wasn't that good.

I wasn't a fan of the TV's, but had purchased and liked a few of their PJ's over the years. Including that ridiculously expensive 3D model that was only 1080p. We've come a long way!

Jim

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Talk about memories of meeting home theater greats - how about Jim Fosgate? Met him at CES back in the Sam Runco days as well. Jim developed the 6-Axis mode to first expand 2 channel to 5 channel back in the early 90s. That was my first surround sound processor, Harmon Kardon's Citation 7.0, which then had a msrp a shade under 4 grand. Jim in the early 2000s had tube surround sound processor.

 

[Edgar]

Throwing my two cents on the table...

Kscape seem to follow a Tesla's sales model (without the Musk or Cyber sideshows) and to an extent their minimal marketing model.
It's weird that I keep trending towards buying into these types of product ecosystems.

Kscape offers the Terra's for the A/V enthusiast crowd. Like Tesla has Model S and X. That attracts that part of the community.
Hard to get sales #s from either company but suspected to be the lowest selling products.

Kscape offers the Strata's with the built in drive for the getting started A/V hobbyist crowd. Like Tesla has Model 3 and Ys. That attracts that part of the community.
Again. hard to get sales #s from Kscape, but in Tesla's case who does, they are much more popular. I imagine the same is true for Kscape for this line.

It seems like Kscape is trying to play to a significant part of the community despite being niche. It also seems to be a fairly risk adverse strategy.

I can think of many A/V companies that have tried to make a push towards volume and now their gone or some insignificant subsidiary of someone who probably bought them for their name and logo. Looking at you Pioneer Elite (I still miss their AVRs and Plasmas), Escient (Fireball anyone?), Runco (best projectors in their day), et cetera.

Cheers

I have a Model S. The interesting thing about this analogy is that a Ferrari/Lamborghini/McLaren all cost more. In terms of cost for speed, a Tesla Model S is weirdly economical.

Which is why I come back to Jura, Peloton, and now that I think about it, a Yamaha Clavinova Baby Grand. All of these land initially as overpriced for their category.

Which, OP, I think is what you're applying your reasoning to. I don't even disagree with you. Speaking for myself, I just needed to get used to the idea that this product represents a unique space, and the advantages there are satisfying to my quality of life. I am very happy with my purchase now, but I can still chuckle about the cost.

 

[markrubin]

Interesting that Jura is mentioned: we are addicted to their coffee makers but they seem to be even worse than K for value: the Jura’s only last 2-3 years before they develop a problem, and you are forced with the decision to send them for repair, which takes a few weeks, or buy a new one: with tariffs now they are more expensive than ever.
Recently I had a Jura that developed a leak of dark water: Jura offered me a trade up for a new machine: that is how I bought the last machine. When I went to give the serial number of the trade in, I discovered what they sent was a refurbished machine, and they will not take them for the trade in deal. I bought a Z10 from Amazon instead.

 

[DaveN]

https://www.costco.com/s?keyword=jura

Lifetime return policy.

 

[rafaelsmith]

I am one that only got.into K because of the Strato V. With 1gig isp dowloading movies is not a problem. While i agree the cost of Terra storage is insane and out of my league i understand why they charge for them. At about a year now with th V and about 150 titles...I have yet to wish I had more stprage...so all is good.

 

[Edgar]

Interesting that Jura is mentioned: we are addicted to their coffee makers but they seem to be even worse than K for value: the Jura’s only last 2-3 years before they develop a problem, and you are forced with the decision to send them for repair, which takes a few weeks, or buy a new one: with tariffs now they are more expensive than ever.
Recently I had a Jura that developed a leak of dark water: Jura offered me a trade up for a new machine: that is how I bought the last machine. When I went to give the serial number of the trade in, I discovered what they sent was a refurbished machine, and they will not take them for the trade in deal. I bought a Z10 from Amazon instead.

Hmm. I’ve had mine for 4 years, and have used it daily making several amazing espressos per day. It’s should be long since dead based on the work I put it through.

 

[cardsdoc]

I am one that only got.into K because of the Strato V. With 1gig isp dowloading movies is not a problem. While i agree the cost of Terra storage is insane and out of my league i understand why they charge for them. At about a year now with th V and about 150 titles...I have yet to wish I had more stprage...so all is good.

Yeah I mostly agree. I also have 1gig fiber and a Strato V. However I have started looking to see if there are any great deals on used Terras. Nothing that has been good enough yet and not sure I ever will but doesn't hurt to look.

 

[DieZwei]

Interesting that Jura is mentioned: we are addicted to their coffee makers but they seem to be even worse than K for value: the Jura’s only last 2-3 years before they develop a problem, and you are forced with the decision to send them for repair, which takes a few weeks, or buy a new one: with tariffs now they are more expensive than ever.

Mh, you are aware that coffee makers should be serviced at least every two years anyway?