Dark Knight IMAX aspect ratio

[thrawn997]

Yeah, that doesn’t seem to be popular since it would involve black bars to the sides on regular TVs.

Would be nice if TVs had curtains around them for people who feel this way, but for me I don't mind black bars above or to the side because I've been watching films that don't fill a TV screen exactly for decades

 

[LoveCinema]

There has to be some business reason for the artificial scarcity...but when they could be making money selling these I have to think there is some contractual reason or brand preservation reason.

Yup, math. For X effort they make $100M. For 2*X effort they make... $100M? Or maybe $101M? The studio spends double the effort for the production of mezzanine files, the digital stores have to license twice as many movies, store and serve twice the files, and have double the listings. Are they getting double the sales? I'd wager the amount of people specifically interested in an alternate aspect ratio is well below 5%, and those same people are already buying what's available.

Disney is currently reserving "IMAX Enhanced" versions of their movies for D+. I'm sure if the industry saw this as successful monetization then we would/will see similar behavior from other studios.

 

[thrawn997]

The studio spends double the effort for the production of mezzanine files

They already gave the mezzanine files these films were displayed in GT IMAX.

 

[LoveCinema]

They already gave the mezzanine files these films were displayed in GT IMAX.

Home video mezzanine files vs. DCPs for theaters or original post-production files.
Regardless, where's the millions in additional sales?

 

[thrawn997]

Home video mezzanine files vs. DCPs for theaters or original post-production files.
Regardless, where's the millions in additional sales?

Mezzanine files exist prior to the DCP. If it costs them millions to store a terabyte I should get into the hosting mezzanine file business.

 

[LoveCinema]

Mezzanine files exist prior to the DCP.

I’m quite sure K (or Apple or Fandango) aren’t given the full post-production pre-DCP mezzanine files but rather derivative files prepared for the home video market. (I could be wrong, always happy to learn more.) Ultimately it's irrelevant, as the argument is about demand.

>90% of the home video audience doesn't know what an aspect ratio is, a smaller amount have a preference, and a tiny fraction want something that's not offered. Disney sells discs and digital in scope and streams IMAX. Nolan's films are IMAX on disc but scope digitally. Want more IMAX/VAR? Subscribe to D+ and buy Warner's discs. The mechanisms are in place to have your voice heard.

For the record, I'd also love to see every product made available in every variation. You'll find a ton of comments from me on this forum about alternative cuts, color-grading, extras, etc. Unfortunately, I'm in a very small minority so while I don't like it, I get it.

 

[thrawn997]

Ultimately it's irrelevant, as the argument is about demand.

I think it's about costs. Denis wants it available. I suspect it's more about licensing costs from IMAX. The technical costs to making existing files available is minimal. But would be interesting to hear Denis talk about why he can't get it out there.

 

[LoveCinema]

I think it's about costs. Denis wants it available. I suspect it's more about licensing costs from IMAX.

Is that from the video provided or some other source(s)? I certainly didn't pick up "Denis wants it available" from that clip. He seems dismissive, suggests IMAX (i.e. someone else) put out "a version", alludes to his involvement in releases, and clearly states that the experience can't be recreated at home. I did a couple of quick searches and couldn't find much, but whatever AI is scraping certainly thinks 2:39 is his preference for home video.

Anyway, I see no reason to think Villeneuve is being forced to release a product he doesn't support. But, where there's money, there's a way. If they believe there's a market for it, perhaps Warner (Paramount/Skydance) will release a triple-dip trilogy box set with VAR.

 

[thrawn997]

The interview shows he thought they released an IMAX disc version of Dune 1 and assumed they, IMAX, would do one for Dune 2.

I don't think manages how it is released, based on that, and it sounds Iike imax has some say in it.

Disney seems to be able to do it, and notably they call it IMAX aspect ratio, which implies there is some license on using that aspect ratio when getting the filmed for imax branding.

 

[KDeering]

Disney promotes the whole IMAX enhanced stuff so that is why they are labeled as such. Marketing. I’m just glad they give you the option of which version you want to watch.

 

[thrawn997]

Disney promotes the whole IMAX enhanced stuff so that is why they are labeled as such. Marketing. I’m just glad they give you the option of which version you want to watch.

IMAX isn't owned by Disney, to use their logo they need an agreement. My point is just that IMAX appears to have some role to play in determining what screens and what home releases get the "IMAX ratio". Any movie screen could curtain or adjust to show the IMAX ratio. The reason some get 1.43 is because they are screens branded by IMAX.

 

[Edgar]

IMAX isn't owned by Disney, to use their logo they need an agreement. My point is just that IMAX appears to have some role to play in determining what screens and what home releases get the "IMAX ratio". Any movie screen could curtain or adjust to show the IMAX ratio. The reason some get 1.43 is because they are screens branded by IMAX.

I think this is correct. IMAX is behaving like it has exclusivity over the 1.43 version of these films. It is the only venue for them, making it a huge draw to see in person. The added production cost for 1.43 versions is likely subsidized by IMAX, which is why studios would agree to that exclusive version staying locked to that distribution channel.

In short, as Deep Throat would say, follow the money. I just want a 1.43 version of Dune on an SSD in that brown Manila envelope!

 

[LoveCinema]

I mean, maybe IMAX has some control here? Regardless, it appears (in that clip) that Villeneuve doesn't care and if he did then Warner already makes accommodations for Nolan and certainly would for Denis. My take is there's no story here.

But... Can we all agree that on every modern television and every 16:9 home theater screen that a film showing in 2.39:1 with large black bars on top and bottom suddenly "expanding" to 1.43:1 with large black bars on the sides would be an absolutely terrible experience that nearly no one would want? You completely lose the "expanding vertically" experience if you don't have constant width. Going from 2.39:1 to 16:9 (1.78:1, 1.85:1, etc.) would be the best attempt to replicate the theatrical experience. And IMAX doesn't "own" either of those ratios. (Though, as @KDeering points out, a marketing claim of "Includes scenes shot for IMAX!" may carry some weight.)

 

[KDeering]

I don't think IMAX has any stake in what the studios want to release. The vast majority of "IMAX" movies are just open matte digital captures with very few exceptions, and they would essentially be 1.78. We see this constantly. The only "true" IMAX films are the ones shot 15/70 which is extremely rare outside of Nolan and a few other films. Even Dune wasn't shot this way, but they used aggressive framing for it (that is still mainly cropping).

IMAX enhanced is the only "licensing" Imax is doing in the home video space as you'll see this badging across a lot of AV equipment (although it actually means very little when you start looking into it). Disney+ is using it in their delivery and has the option for IMAX variable aspect and the DTS tracks associated with IMAX enhanced (one of the few examples).

Of course I could be completely wrong and there is some kind of agreement with the studios and IMAX but since the studio is the one that shot the movie and owns it and IMAX is just a venue begging for anything it can get, I highly doubt they have anywhere near that type of control. I know for a fact that some movies are not released with IMAX footage because the director said they don't want it released that way as that was only intended for IMAX theaters. But I also have a lot of clients that ring/email me when they watch a movie with a shifting aspect ratio and are asking if something is wrong with their setup because it keeps changing on them and they have no idea why. So I wouldn't be surprised if studios forgo these types of things to eliminate that for the 90%+ of the public that doesn't have a clue why the movie would do that when they are streaming it.

But again, all a shot in the dark without knowing exactly why each title is the way it is.

 

[thrawn997]

Dune 3 may be entirely in 1.43, but only some theaters will get to show it that way. I think it is known that when you film for imax they unlock a huge trove of support for the film. It's mutually beneficial, IMAX gets to have the full image exclusively in their theaters, and studios get technical, marketing and financial assistance from IMAX. I get it. I just wish that we could watch 1.43 even on a Dolby 1.85 screen. Curtains exist.

 

[KDeering]

I'll take Dolby Cinema 1000x's over IMAX. Even in true 15/70 format on a tall screen I just don't get the appeal after having been to LOTS of showings. But obviously there are a lot of folks who like it.

 

[KDeering]

I'm also surprised that Dune 3 is going to go for 15/70 for capture. Maybe the tone and time jump of the film will make the change in appearance less jarring. Obviously there was some changes between the first two movies as well but both were shot digital with some tricks. I'm still really looking forward to seeing the third one. Villenueve has been my favorite working director for a long time now, long before Dune ever came into the picture. I was a bit worried when he signed on for BR2049 but it turned out to be one of my favorite movies of recent memory. Dune has been great, guess we'll see how Bond turns out....

 

[thrawn997]

I'll take Dolby Cinema 1000x's over IMAX. Even in true 15/70 format on a tall screen I just don't get the appeal after having been to LOTS of showings. But obviously there are a lot of folks who like it.

Yeah, I am bummed out that Doomsday is likely going to have all the Dolby showings of Dune, I prefer Dolby. But I'd love to see the full 1.43 frame in the Dolby 1.85 theater. I'd probably sit a row closer than normal.

 

[thrawn997]

I'm also surprised that Dune 3 is going to go for 15/70 for capture. Maybe the tone and time jump of the film will make the change in appearance less jarring. Obviously there was some changes between the first two movies as well but both were shot digital with some tricks. I'm still really looking forward to seeing the third one. Villenueve has been my favorite working director for a long time now, long before Dune ever came into the picture. I was a bit worried when he signed on for BR2049 but it turned out to be one of my favorite movies of recent memory. Dune has been great, guess we'll see how Bond turns out....

I think Greig Fraser got locked up for the Beatles films and that necessitated a change. Greig has a very distinct look to me, and I loved it with Dune. I'll reserve final judgement until I see the film, but the trailer for 3 had me missing Greig.

 

[Edgar]

Yeah, I am bummed out that Doomsday is likely going to have all the Dolby showings of Dune, I prefer Dolby. But I'd love to see the full 1.43 frame in the Dolby 1.85 theater. I'd probably sit a row closer than normal.

I’ll join you in that row. Or fly to a true IMAX city. From what I’ve seen online of the 1.43 versions of Dune 1 & 2, we’ve all only seen half the movie in all other theatrical and home formats.