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4K Bluray- correct me if I am wrong, but K's vault / server system now would support 4K with new players...
- Thread starter iansilv
- Start date
I think you have threeissues:
1- physical;
2- format;
3- legal
1- physical: I think the physical hard discs can hold any kind of data you want to put on them so that should work.
2- Format: the resolution will be so much greater so we will need new players with new decoding. And they could use a different compression system than is being used in BR. So here to your question, the new discs would require new type readers so we would definitely need a new import mechanism.
3- legal. If there are to be 4k discs then there will likely be new/ different legal requirements. My guess is they would be more restrictive than on BR. So would a vault type system work for this? I don't know.
Just my speculation.
1- physical;
2- format;
3- legal
1- physical: I think the physical hard discs can hold any kind of data you want to put on them so that should work.
2- Format: the resolution will be so much greater so we will need new players with new decoding. And they could use a different compression system than is being used in BR. So here to your question, the new discs would require new type readers so we would definitely need a new import mechanism.
3- legal. If there are to be 4k discs then there will likely be new/ different legal requirements. My guess is they would be more restrictive than on BR. So would a vault type system work for this? I don't know.
Just my speculation.
I do think this 4k talk is pretty premature. For that format to make it in consumer channels, what percentage of the displays need to be capable of 4k display with a 4k input (not a 1080p input that is scaled up to 4k)? It took HD several years to really get moving. I expect that 4k bluray will be a very slow rollout and will not have full support for a long time.
This place is full of interesting chat at the moment! 
I've seen LG talk about there being some 4K content on BD as early as next year. The capacity of even Double Layer BD is such that 4K content would either have to be quite short or compressed to a point where the video artifacts probably negate the point of going up to 4K in the first place. There is a good article on the issues here:
http://www.techradar.com/news/television/tv/why-4k-isnt-ready-to-replace-hd-1065703
I think it would need triple or quad layer BD discs, which probably means the reader in the vaults won't be able to read the discs.
Of course the increase in stream bandwidth would reduce the amount of simultaneous streams the servers could handle quite significantly.
I've seen LG talk about there being some 4K content on BD as early as next year. The capacity of even Double Layer BD is such that 4K content would either have to be quite short or compressed to a point where the video artifacts probably negate the point of going up to 4K in the first place. There is a good article on the issues here:
http://www.techradar.com/news/television/tv/why-4k-isnt-ready-to-replace-hd-1065703
I think it would need triple or quad layer BD discs, which probably means the reader in the vaults won't be able to read the discs.
Of course the increase in stream bandwidth would reduce the amount of simultaneous streams the servers could handle quite significantly.
I have seen some native 4K and was very impressed and a person who knows a lot than I do thinks it will be in the home a lot earlier than many think!
Blu Ray was well established before Kaleidescape provided a solution. I would not be surprised that when the time comes to support 4K a whole new generation of hardware will be released.
Blu Ray was well established before Kaleidescape provided a solution. I would not be surprised that when the time comes to support 4K a whole new generation of hardware will be released.
I think most newer films are done in 4k or higher as most commercial projectors are 4k and they know there will be higher formats. Anything from film is 4k compatible because film has a higher resolution. Im not sure if it has a higher resolution than 8k though. Im going from memory so I could be off a bit on this.
Kaleidescape doesn't even support 3D yet due to hardware limitation(s), and there is quite a bit of content available in that format. 4K compatibility will be far off in my opinion.
On a more tangential note, I personally don't see a 4K optical disc being a viable format especially in the mid/long-term, and for that reason I doubt that Kaleidescape will ever support it. Sony has already alluded to offering 4K content downloads from one or more online stores to their own media players*, and Kaleidescape is already positioned to do so if their next-gen players can decode and play 4K content (and 3D hopefully); no need to halt product development while waiting for yet another optical standard to be agreed upon.
*I can't wait to see how this pans out - either a big or expensive buffering hard drive, or "minimum bandwidth - 15Mbps" disclaimer will be required.
On a more tangential note, I personally don't see a 4K optical disc being a viable format especially in the mid/long-term, and for that reason I doubt that Kaleidescape will ever support it. Sony has already alluded to offering 4K content downloads from one or more online stores to their own media players*, and Kaleidescape is already positioned to do so if their next-gen players can decode and play 4K content (and 3D hopefully); no need to halt product development while waiting for yet another optical standard to be agreed upon.
*I can't wait to see how this pans out - either a big or expensive buffering hard drive, or "minimum bandwidth - 15Mbps" disclaimer will be required.
Well, if Kaleidescapes download store comes to be viable then we have a download system right there.
I actually think 4K has much more potential than 3D and just because the system doesn't support 3D doesnt mean it can't support something else.
It seems to me its a ways off but imagine someone like, oh gee, I donno, Apple coming out with a new "Retina HDTV" that is 4K and after a few years there is more and more 4K content and demand for such... also 4K displays have the potential to display 1080P content better than native 1080P displays. I think at first its likely they will be slightly worse due to light output and scaling issues but they will sort that out within a year or two.
The real worry about the bandwidth is how much compression gets applied. I would expect carriers like the cable and sat companies to use heavy compression. I hope if we get there with Kaleidescape they use minimal compression/ maximum picture quality. Id be more than happy to wait for things to DL while I sleep.
I actually think 4K has much more potential than 3D and just because the system doesn't support 3D doesnt mean it can't support something else.
It seems to me its a ways off but imagine someone like, oh gee, I donno, Apple coming out with a new "Retina HDTV" that is 4K and after a few years there is more and more 4K content and demand for such... also 4K displays have the potential to display 1080P content better than native 1080P displays. I think at first its likely they will be slightly worse due to light output and scaling issues but they will sort that out within a year or two.
The real worry about the bandwidth is how much compression gets applied. I would expect carriers like the cable and sat companies to use heavy compression. I hope if we get there with Kaleidescape they use minimal compression/ maximum picture quality. Id be more than happy to wait for things to DL while I sleep.
Great perspective Jerry. I agree completely. a Kaleidescape model that accommodates 4K for early adopters is worth waiting for. I also agree with the likelihood that Apple is a good prospect for a 4K introduction at the consumer level. Its just a matter of time.
Peter
Thanks Peter. When it comes to the much rumored Apple TV I just can't think of a compelling reason for many to desire to upgrade their existing monitors for something that is likely more expensive. I'm not even sure 4K would do it for many people but maybe 4K plus some other goodies that we haven't foreseen could do the trick.
Have any of you noticed how blown out a lot of the players jerseys are with HD sports? The current system doesn't have enough dynamic range for this- this causes you to lose detail. I believe the 4K system that will eventually come will have an even wider dynamic range- I think that will be a large part of the improvement we see. But like so much, it will depend on marketing. Enter Apple...
Have any of you noticed how blown out a lot of the players jerseys are with HD sports? The current system doesn't have enough dynamic range for this- this causes you to lose detail. I believe the 4K system that will eventually come will have an even wider dynamic range- I think that will be a large part of the improvement we see. But like so much, it will depend on marketing. Enter Apple...
I am assuming Jerry that you are referring to HD feeds from cable or satellite? I never expect the dynamic range to equal the bit for bit BD source we store and play through our dedicated players in our theatres. For me the potential quality uptake of 4K source material is of interest to those of us with the means to display it. I fully expect to have to make major changes in equipment composition in my theater but i'm looking forward to it.
I have to note here however that for me the universe is divided into two parts: one is broadcast TV and the other is dedicated movie and concert material. It is very rare if ever that these two hemispheres ever overlap.
Peter
I don't think source material will be an issue many restorations are completed in 4K prior to BluRay release. 35mm film is said to have a resolution in the region of 5-6K. Apparently many Studios have already or are in process of transferring their back catalogues to 4K. As Jerry observed much new material is being shot with 4K cameras.
Peter you are correct on both counts. However, even with the compromises inherent with broadcast TV, a format with wider dynamic range should still show a benefit over the current one. Of course fully uncompressed playback will really knock our socks off. And Im with you, I expect that there will have to be some new gadget purchases on my end. I bought my current projector in 2007. Im hoping I can get ~10 years out of it. We'll see...
What happens when they come out with 8K?!
I will have buy my movies all over again. Laser Disk, VHS, DVD, BluRay, 4K ....8K. I will have to get a bigger shelf!!
Can I get a 4K version without Greedo shooting first please?
Would that be a decision for George or Walt?