Kaleidescape legal update

[Mr.Poindexter]

Has there been any official response from Kaleidescape on the court decision and how this affects servers purchased prior to the injunction date? I have a spare 5U I might want to setup as a new system, but I need a new hard drive set with a fresh OS install to bring it online.

Order fast. The injunction would not apply to raw data drives, but if you need a set of drives with the O/S then it would likely run into the injunction.

 

[videofile]

I found the outline info about the appeal in process via the Appelate Court web portal.

[URL="http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=6&doc_id=2007955&doc_no=H038037"]http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=6&doc_id=2007955&doc_no=H038037[/URL]

 

[Jerry D]

If K does disappear, do you think someone might buy the movie database and start a subscription service for K users going forward. Running the numbers - if there are maybe 10,000 owners of a K system and, say, half subscribed $250 pa, that's $1.25m pa. Surely enough to cover a better than basic movie guide service?

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

They would need to either get the original ip address and just take over kaleidescape's or the servers would need to be able to select a new database supply site, something they can not do right now.

 

[cinelife]

Time to put an end to the speculation about K's demise. I joked in an earlier post about buying systems from panic seller's, but let me be as clear as possible:

K IS NOT CLOSING!!! They will continue business as usual until the injunction goes into affect (assuming it does).

This is NOT just a DVD "ripping" company. K has a lot in the works and continues to develop services to support our movie watching, and music listening experiences. They are NOT closing their doors. The people running K are experienced business folks that have positioned the company to move into these additional support areas, and although DVD's are clearly a big part of K's current value, they are not alone driving K's success.

Three important points:

1. K has appealled the injunction's start date.
2. K has appealled the court's trial decision.
3. NO SYSTEM SHIPPED BEFORE THE INJUNCTION GOES INTO AFFECT, whenever/if that happens, IS AFFECTED IN ANY WAY BY THE INJUNCTION. K will continue to support DVD's for these current/legacy systems, including Metadata. Systems sold after the injunction goes into affect will comply with the injunction and will NOT support DVD, at least until a final decision in the courts.

I find it funny that non-K owner's would continue to discuss this topic as if K's closing was inevitable. You clearly don't know what your talking about. In keeping with their traditional view of running their business in private, K is not addressing what they are currently working on in R&D, but they ARE continuing to move forward, and we are continuing to place orders for systems.

I Hope that is clear.


Jim

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

I just bought another a couple days ago (after the court decision), so I am still committed to the company, if that is any indication. I am thinking about getting another set of drives with the current O/S loaded onto them though...

 

[cinelife]

I've been assured that current systems would be completly supported just as they are now, including the OS, and including adding future components to a, what I now call, legacy system. That also includes drives, I asked. That said, it never hurts to be proactive.

Jim

 

[Steven]

Can you still get the mini-system (the name is escaping me as I type)? I assume that the hardware does not matter, so long as it is pre-injunction?

Thanks, Steven

 

[cinelife]

Can you still get the mini-system (the name is escaping me as I type)? I assume that the hardware does not matter, so long as it is pre-injunction?

Thanks, Steven

I think the last day to order the Cinema One is tomorrow (Friday, the 30th, because the 31st is a Saturday. Check with your dealer.

Jim

 

[nineball]

Time to put an end to the speculation about K's demise. I joked in an earlier post about buying systems from panic seller's, but let me be as clear as possible:

K IS NOT CLOSING!!! They will continue business as usual until the injunction goes into affect (assuming it does).

This is NOT just a DVD "ripping" company. K has a lot in the works and continues to develop services to support our movie watching, and music listening experiences. They are NOT closing their doors. The people running K are experienced business folks that have positioned the company to move into these additional support areas, and although DVD's are clearly a big part of K's current value, they are not alone driving K's success.

Three important points:

1. K has appealled the injunction's start date.
2. K has appealled the court's trial decision.
3. NO SYSTEM SHIPPED BEFORE THE INJUNCTION GOES INTO AFFECT, whenever/if that happens, IS AFFECTED IN ANY WAY BY THE INJUNCTION. K will continue to support DVD's for these current/legacy systems, including Metadata. Systems sold after the injunction goes into affect will comply with the injunction and will NOT support DVD, at least until a final decision in the courts.

I find it funny that non-K owner's would continue to discuss this topic as if K's closing was inevitable. You clearly don't know what your talking about. In keeping with their traditional view of running their business in private, K is not addressing what they are currently working on in R&D, but they ARE continuing to move forward, and we are continuing to place orders for systems.

I Hope that is clear.


Jim

Jim,

I am an owner of Kaleidescape technology (70K+)

I am a huge fan of the technology and the accompanying 'Kaleidescape Experience'.

I am not happy with the companies performance through this phase of the current litigation with respect to its communication to its customer base. All they have left us with is a single memo and interview stating that they were appealing the injunction which would probably buy another couple of years. Those of us with some business experience in this field know full well that this company is going to need more than loyalty and heartfelt outrage at what they are going through. By in large, an overwhelming majority of companies in this position who have a significant legal challenge don't do well. The legal distractions are energy draining and regardless of our enthusiastic loyalty and support, new business has to come to a standstill until the air is cleared. The company must do more than their past practice of saying very little or nothing. Rumours can kill a company (ask RIM). Management has to get out in front of this thing if its not to late already. I want them to accept that the current strategy of survival through continued court challenges has failed and that a radical re-imagineering of their business model is their best option for success. I want them to succeed. In some respects I believe they can provide an improvement on the much vaunted Apple success. But someone needs to sit down with a whiteboard and non-permanent magic marker and get out in front of this train wreck.

The best immediate step for the management is to provide a clear roadmap to the future that removes the fear and anxiety that current owners must be feeling. That reality needs to accept and respect that the courts are not the path to the future.

We need more than empty platitudes and old rhetoric about how great the technology has been. We know that and as loyal customers we will enthusiastically support a strong leadership position that continues to build legal products with our wallets. I for one am having an increasing hard time justifying any more investment in defensive legal strategies for this company.

Its time to abandon the lawyers and bring back the product engineers........


Peter

 

[JerryL]

Thanks Jim. I think the problem Kaleidescape has now is one of perception. And to that I do agree that it seems we've seen some new people show up to just criticize and cast doubt.

 

[iansilv]

Wait a sec- am I missing something?

BLURAY anyone? For all the complaints about needing a disk vault, the Kaleidescape experience is not compromised with the highest quality standard available to consumers- BLURAY. And with the vault model, K is positioned to playback new formats on the BLURAY disk standard...

Even the average consumer is buying BLURAY now. I have talked to a few of my friends about this K injunction. They all say the same thing: "Well, that's dumb. No one wants DVDs anymore- blurays are better.". They then go on to say that K is too expensive. But the issue of DVDs not being played doesn't even enter the equation.

The fact is that home brew systems can rip DVDs pretty well. But BLURAY ripping is an ongoing experiment. It is always running in to hurdles when a new disk and copy protection variation is released. Kaleidescape handles BLURAY better than any other system can, and handles it perfectly. I don't see any room for improvement except on board decoding and 3D.

I just don't buy this "the company needs a massive restructuring because the sky is falling" argument. Long time users have huge DVD collections. But long time users will still have their systems. New users are buying BLURAYS. That's where K shines and provides value for new users.

 

[AnOutsider]

I find it funny that non-K owner's would continue to discuss this topic as if K's closing was inevitable. You clearly don't know what your talking about.

Thank you for bringing us a tidbit of insider info, I'm sure it's helping to ease some troubled minds. I don't get, however, why you feel someone who doesn't (yet?) own a k system can't discuss the current situation? Clearly there were people who DID own the system (myself included) that were worried, so it's not like the concerns are only from those not owning one?

Another concern I have which has been echoed by others, is that if this goes permanent, will K maintain the DVD database for the "older" customers?

I have to wonder though, if K moves into downloading as the primary functionality, how they can roll with the apple TVs and rokus of the world at the current price points.

 

[nineball]

Thank you for bringing us a tidbit of insider info, I'm sure it's helping to ease some troubled minds. I don't get, however, why you feel someone who doesn't (yet?) own a k system can't discuss the current situation? Clearly there were people who DID own the system (myself included) that were worried, so it's not like the concerns are only from those not owning one?

Another concern I have which has been echoed by others, is that if this goes permanent, will K maintain the DVD database for the "older" customers?

I have to wonder though, if K moves into downloading as the primary functionality, how they can roll with the apple TVs and rokus of the world at the current price points.

Your last point is a good question. It clearly would be very difficult to justify a premium if all services were in fact equal but they are not. Kaleidescape clearly offers a superior stable, secure, highly intuitive interface and management capability that to use Apples brand argument......."it just works"! It's a better Apple than Apple. So its worth a premium to get the better experience especially to tis market.

Peter

 

[cinelife]

Thank you for bringing us a tidbit of insider info, I'm sure it's helping to ease some troubled minds. I don't get, however, why you feel someone who doesn't (yet?) own a k system can't discuss the current situation? Clearly there were people who DID own the system (myself included) that were worried, so it's not like the concerns are only from those not owning one?

Another concern I have which has been echoed by others, is that if this goes permanent, will K maintain the DVD database for the "older" customers?

I have to wonder though, if K moves into downloading as the primary functionality, how they can roll with the apple TVs and rokus of the world at the current price points.

Good point. Probably should not have been that rude, it was made out of frustration at reading comments about K's demise from people that are not connected enough (that I know of) to be making such comments (meaning they don't operate in K's space, have regular contact with dealer's, with the company, etc.). Still, I recognize my comment was unfair. My apologies to anyone offended.

I know there will be some folks that worry no matter what is said, and would probably continue to worry even if MM made a public statement about K's financial position and the intent to continue operating. I happen to know just enough info to be comfortable saying that K isn't going anywhere. IMO, it is ridiculous for people to SPECULATE about what K faces ahead without having a clue about K's financial position, strategic plan and legal position. After 15 years of trial work, and 60+ trials without a single loss, I feel qualified to say there is still much to do related to the case, and those that make comments about K having lost and should now just give up, it's over, accept the ruling and move on, etc., clearly do not understand how the legal system works.

So, to those that need "worry" in their lives, worry on, and in the meantime the rest of us will be sitting back enjoying our systems.



Jim

 

[JerryL]

IMHO DVD storage is still an important part of the Kaleidescape system because its a legacy format. But yes, it is a legacy format and one destined to the past.

What we do when we wonder how Kaleidescape will fare in the future is think what a prospective customer will think. And I think in that regard, if you are looking for a new storage system and have a ton of DVDs you could view the inability to store those DVDs as a frustration; or you could just say the present and near future is Blu-Ray. Speaking for myself, I'd view it as a limitation, but I'd probably decide to go with the system anyway because of its excellent BR capability.

As for the DL store- I think it really depends on how they do it. If it gets us iTunes level quality- then they are just competing with Apple and thats a tough one- though you could view it as a replacement for the potential loss of the DVD function. If, on the other hand, the store has either BR or better quality to the video and audio (especially the video) then its something no one else has.

I have no idea what they can and cannot accomplish legally with the download store, or how far along they are etc. But my wish would be to see if they could squeeze some more resolution out of BR on letterboxed content- just like it was done with anamorphic DVDs. This would benefit those with CIH setups. But it would be a reason to go with the system.

Anyway Jim, I think everyone's entitled to their opinion. Thats an impressive record you have there. Congratulations. My opinion is this is too soon to know and we also don't have all the information so how could anyone here really make a declarative statement. I'm also sure K would rather give out more information but I am sympathetic to the situation they are in and I think they cannot say too much right now. So we wait- and in the mean time we can use our fantastic systems.

 

[glr-fti]

Temporary Stay is Granted

http://www.cepro.com/article/kaleidescape_granted_temporary_stay_on_dvd_servers/

 

[videofile]

http://www.cepro.com/article/kaleidescape_granted_temporary_stay_on_dvd_servers/

Looks like DVD CCA have until April 13th to file their replies, then Kal have 10 days to reply to the replies. Anyone know how long things likely take after that?

From the Appellate Court website:

03/29/2012 Stay order filed. To permit further consideration of the issues raised by the petition for writ of supersedeas, the superior court's March 8, 2012 permanent injunction order is stayed until further order of this court. Respondent may serve and file on or before April 13, 2012, points and authorities in opposition to the petition for writ of supersedeas. If respondent files points and authorities in opposition, the appellant may reply to the opposition within 10 days after it is filed in this court. (Premo, Acting P.J., Elia, J., and Bamattre-Manoukian, J. participated in this decision.)

 

[cinelife]

It was easy to see this coming. The timing is really up to the appellate court. How quickly can they, or do they, want to hear the issues presented on appeal. This is short term for sure, but it's a start, and part of the process.


Jim

 

[AnOutsider]

Your last point is a good question. It clearly would be very difficult to justify a premium if all services were in fact equal but they are not. Kaleidescape clearly offers a superior stable, secure, highly intuitive interface and management capability that to use Apples brand argument......."it just works"! It's a better Apple than Apple. So its worth a premium to get the better experience especially to tis market.

Peter

I agree, but the costs are vastly different. $99 vs what? 5k at the minimum and the fact you have to go through a dealer? I think most consumers would go for the apple option.

With that said, factoring in DVD and blu ray will make k a more compelling option in my book any day. I'm eager to see what they do with downloads to stand out from the crowd.