IMPORTANT: PLEASE PARTICIPATE This forum's future — a discussion, and an ask

[josh]

TL;DR: This forum is seeing record high usage and engagement, but the percentage of members that are paying to help keep the site running is at an all-time low. (4% of all members, or just 16% of the high-usage, very frequent visitors are contributing).

The site's future and my desire to keep running this is in question... Seeking input, and asking more people who value the site and visit often to step up to a paid membership.

I've been running this forum for 19 years (with incredible help, time and support from Jim, and with amazing assistance from a few super-members who manage major parts of the forum areas). There's no advertising, I receive zero financial support from Kaleidescape, there's no selling of your data — just my (our) own time and money, helped by a few members who pay to keep the forum running.

Lately I'll be honest: the trend I'm seeing is dispiriting.

First - the good news:

In February plus the first half of March, this forum had a record 376,897 unique visitors — people actively browsing, not just bouncing. That's remarkable growth, and reflects how much this community has become the go-to resource for Kaleidescape owners.​

Other record-setting high numbers:​

• 3,266 registered members of the site
• 656 highly-active members, coming more than twice a month and spending 20+ minutes on the site

What's more, two key metrics that show the value of the site — average time-on-site per visit and average page views per visit — are also both at record highs. Jim and I are proud of that. The content here is clearly engaging and helpful.​

And... the bad:

Here's the number that is also setting a record, but in the wrong direction: only 136 people are choosing to pay for a premium membership that helps this forum continue to pay its bills and show Jim and me that this place has real value to them. That's 0.03% of visitors, but the better way to look at it is we're at 4% of our membership base, or 16% of those highly active members here.​

​

That last number (16% of highly-engaged/active members) is the lowest it's been in over six years — despite the forum seemingly having more valuable content and more engaged discussion than ever before.​

I don't say this to guilt anyone — but after 19 years of keeping the lights on and putting in countles hours and a lot money, I'd be lying if I said it didn't sting a little.

That said, there are many people visiting here who are absolutely not expected to pay anything to use the site:

• Any owners coming occasionally to ask a question, see when a movie is released, or read about some hardware issues. We love supporting new and casual users who visit a few times per month or less. Casual users are welcomed here, paying or not.
• Someone looking to browse and buy equipment in the marketplace... Our model has been that sellers have to pay to list eqiupment but buyers are welcomed and of course we'd not have a marketplace if people didn't come and engage with sellers.
• And definitely not those well-known 6-7 prized super-members who contribute incredible hours to updating movie releases, prices, sales, availability, updates, etc.! They contribute something more valuable than money to this community, and nothing more is ever asked or expected of them.

The question for me is those 600+ members here for hours and hours, some visiting almost daily, who have been here often for many many years and that clearly seem to get a lot from the forum but haven't yet been convinced to contribute to the costs, even at the lowest support tier.

For any members here who have not paid for a premium tier membership, I'm genuinely curious: what would make a paid membership feel more worth it to you, or what has stopped you from doing it? More perks, more utility, something else entirely? And it's OK to say "I just get all the value for free so I don't see why I'd pay" — even that very honest answer helps me think through what to do with the forum going forward.

But I'll throw in an ask as well. If you've gotten value from this forum — found the answer to a frustrating problem, bought or sold gear safely, learned about new movie releases, or taken advantage of a posted price change, or just enjoyed spending time here being among people who get it, it would mean a lot if you considered upgrading to a Premium or Patron membership. I deliberately keep the membership costs quite modest — what matters more to me is the signal it sends that this place is worth keeping around.

While gaining new premium members from this post would be nice, I am also hoping to start a dialog about the future of the forum and how to keep it going here in a way most effective and helpful to the users. I have my own theories and some ideas, and there are definitely things I can do to boost the revenue to cover costs, but I'd really rather hear your thoughts and ideas first.

Thank you!

--josh

 

[thrillcat]

I can honestly say this is the ONLY forum I've ever upgraded to a paid membership. I get more out of this community than any other and I'm happy to chip in.

 

[josh]

I can honestly say this is the ONLY forum I've ever upgraded to a paid membership. I get more out of this community than any other and I'm happy to chip in.

thanks @thrillcat. You contribute a lot of great content here as well as your generous financial support.

 

[gadgetman]

This is the only forum I even visit because I enjoy it, learn from it and occasionally contribute to it. The fact that Kaleidescape experts make themselves available is truly a special plus.

I'm a Patron member but I'm willing to chip in more to ensure it continues to thrive. Perhaps, you can create a higher tier of membership so I can do so, or I am happy to contribute in any other way you deem appropriate. Hopefully, those who do more set an example for those who have not upgraded to paid status. (You and Jim have certainly set an example in so many ways.)

 

[Rengozu]

"You've been a member here for a while now, but so far we haven't been able to convince you to join the forum as a paid supporter. "

I understand all the time and personal expense you've dedicated to keeping this place running and I will look into contributing soon as I do like getting and discussing the latest K news here, but seeing this message in bold when I first log in is a little disheartening when I have actually been a paid member in the last year and my subscription just ran out.

 

[josh]

"You've been a member here for a while now, but so far we haven't been able to convince you to join the forum as a paid supporter. "

I understand all the time and personal expense you've dedicated to keeping this place running and I will look into contributing soon as I do like getting and discussing the latest K news here, but seeing this message in bold when I first log in is a little disheartening when I have actually been a paid member in the last year and my subscription just ran out.

you're right that the logic in there shouldn't say it that way if you were a premium member and it's just recently lapsed. Unfortunately, the options the forum software has for messaging just isn't that sophisticated. But I'll look into changing the wording at least.

I'd like to say I'll just remove the nag messages, but I'd say they've been at least reasonably successful...

There are other options that I'm considering. Just wanted to hear ideas or thoughts from others first. I appreciate you responding here and do wish to acknowledge and thank you for your financial support of the forum.

 

[josh]

This is the only forum I even visit because I enjoy it, learn from it and occasionally contribute to it. The fact that Kaleidescape experts make themselves available is truly a special plus.

I'm a Patron member but I'm willing to chip in more to ensure it continues to thrive. Perhaps, you can create a higher tier of membership so I can do so, or I am happy to contribute in any other way you deem appropriate. Hopefully, those who do more set an example for those who have not upgraded to paid status. (You and Jim have certainly set an example in so many ways.)

Thank you for your support and offer! Will consider this, but I wasn't aiming to get those who already are paying to pay MORE than they do. It really was more about the percentage of heavy users/readers here who haven't paid anything. My goal wasn't to increae the amount paid by those paying, rather just increaase the % of members who pay any amount at all, as a way to show they value the forum enough to pay some amount.

 

[gadgetman]

Thank you for your support and offer! Will consider this, but I wasn't aiming to get those who already are paying to pay MORE than they do. It really was more about the percentage of heavy users/readers here who haven't paid anything. My goal wasn't to increae the amount paid by those paying, rather just increaase the % of members who pay any amount at all, as a way to show they value the forum enough to pay some amount.

I understand that the goal is to induce more members to contribute by joining a paid tier but hoped that my offer to contribute more might induce other members to subscribe to a paid tier. I do think many underestimate the costs required to sustain this forum (not to mention your valuable time), some of which are variable as data increases. This ignores the generosity of @cinelife in providing for the raffles and other miscellanea that all forum members appreciate.

Given that this forum feels like a community, I am very surprised that engagement has increased so dramatically while paid membership as a percentage has declined. To be very frank, 4% of total members, and 16% of active members, who choose to contribute does not cut it, particularly since the value of the forum has increased exponentially over the past years.

Everyone should understand that this forum can disappear at any time if the number of paid members does not increase.

 

[flitebynite]

I just renewed for another year. Curious what happened to the two year membership? What about a lifetime membership? I'm in it for the long haul, so why not?
You and Jim do an awesome job on this site, and it's always a welcoming place to come and interact with the people here.
Please keep up the good work.
A thought: Maybe you could work out an agreement with K to sell merchandise on this site. A company store, so to speak. T-shirts, Hats, Coasters, Banners, and the like. Tayloe hangs out here occasionally; maybe something could be agreed upon, and there could be some revenue generated to help the cause. Surely the existance of this site can be seen as a source of interest, advocacy, and enticement for sales of K equipment.
It seems to be worth a try to see what could be worked out.
Thanks again for providing such a welcoming and useful site for us all to enjoy.
I have other thoughts as well, but I don't want to tie up the thread here.

Chris

 

[MovieChef]

Thank you for your support and offer! Will consider this, but I wasn't aiming to get those who already are paying to pay MORE than they do. It really was more about the percentage of heavy users/readers here who haven't paid anything. My goal wasn't to increae the amount paid by those paying, rather just increaase the % of members who pay any amount at all, as a way to show they value the forum enough to pay some amount.

Like gadgetman offered, I'd also be willing to pay more to be a member here. Although it is not your intention to get more money from paying members, I nonetheless would want to do more to help this forum thrive.

 

[MarvinTheAndroid]

I highly value this forum and the time and effort both in it's maintenance and from some of the more prolific posters. When I first became a K owner I also became a paid member of this site which is the first and only time I have paid for such a forum. However, after the first year when my paid membership lapsed I didn't renew.

The reasons are sadly outside this forums control I am afraid to say. My enthusiasm with K has waned somewhat and it doesn't help that K's involvement with this forum has been a rather mixed bag to say the least. K has been a downgrade from the discs they replaced both in respect to Audio and Video quality but also in respect to available content. As such my ownership of K has been hanging by a thread for a considerable amount of time and will almost certainly be coming to an end soon once I have been able to rebuy all the discs I sold when purchasing K.

As such my lack of interest in paying for this forum and the valuable service it provides has absolutely nothing to do with the forum itself and its members and everything to do with the product that it relates to.

 

[OUTATIME]

One comment is that other than on posts like this with direct links, the page to purchase a membership is kind of hidden in my opinion. I'd consider adding a prominent link on the main page instead of only having it buried in user profile settings which a user would rarely see.

Also, I think I'd honestly consider some advertising and forum sponsorships with this sort of website traffic. I'm sure there are many A/V brands with high margins that would value being able to advertise on or sponsor this forum for the Kaleidescape user base. Just my two cents....although I know some people really dislike advertising completely and it is nice to not have it everywhere but I feel most users are used to seeing in on other forums and that creates an expectation that there's no need to personally subscribe/donate.

 

[by96]

Is there a scenario that everyone (who, for example, wants to be able to post at all but don't care about the extra benefits) pays a little (e.g., $30/year), and then have the higher tiers for those that pay more?

I have been one of those who is here a lot, but hasn't paid anything up to now (but I have been around for less than a year). I do pay for other forums, but they are also a lot less than $80/year.

(And yes, this thread pushed me to contribute.)

 

[MarvinTheAndroid]

I would suggest that advertising and paid membership may not be mutually exclusive with advertisements being restricted to non-paid members only.

You would also think that with all the free QA services some members on here provide to K that K themselves might want to chip in a little. After all with the price they charge for storage they can probably afford it! If they did however I think conflicts of interest would need to be managed.

 

[OUTATIME]

I would suggest that advertising and paid membership may not be mutually exclusive with advertisements being restricted to non-paid members only.

You would also think that with all the free QA services some members on here provide to K that K themselves might want to chip in a little. After all with the price they charge for storage they can probably afford it! If they did however I think conflicts of interest would need to be managed.

I would also think there could be a much more expensive dealer membership level as dealers would have access to an engaged client base and the ability to sell high margin hardware to the users. The used marketplace could probably be monetized further as well....especially from users that sell often.

I would target monetization to breakeven (or whatever profit is necessary) with these ideas: (again, just my two cents as a user not knowing what's already been explored in the past)

• members pay because they want to support (this will always be low conversion)
• sellers pay because they are transacting. Those that sell often could easily pay more.
• dealers pay because they are generating leads (this has high margin so should be worth much more)
• sponsors pay because they want access to this audience (again these are likely companies selling high margin products)

 

[by96]

If they did however I think conflicts of interest would need to be managed.

The conflict of interest part is interesting, as Epson just became the official projector of AVSForums. I am not exactly sure how that works, but if they can do it over there, I would hope KScape could do it here.

 

[OUTATIME]

The conflict of interest part is interesting, as Epson just became the official projector of AVSForums. I am not exactly sure how that works, but if they can do it over there, I would hope KScape could do it here.

That...or Epson could do it here as well. Or JVC or Harman or Trinnov etc. Those targeted and relevant sponsorships would be way better than random banner ads advertising unrelated brands. There is obviously a passionate audience here that is willing to spend on premium products. The value should be there for these types of A/V brands (and Dealers) to pay to get in front of the audience.

 

[josh]

One comment is that other than on posts like this with direct links, the page to purchase a membership is kind of hidden in my opinion. I'd consider adding a prominent link on the main page instead of only having it buried in user profile settings which a user would rarely see.

Also, I think I'd honestly consider some advertising and forum sponsorships with this sort of website traffic. I'm sure there are many A/V brands with high margins that would value being able to advertise on or sponsor this forum for the Kaleidescape user base. Just my two cents....although I know some people really dislike advertising completely and it is nice to not have it everywhere but I feel most users are used to seeing in on other forums and that creates an expectation that there's no need to personally subscribe/donate.

good thoughts, thanks. I'll check it again, but I'm pretty sure that if you're not a paid member, there definitely are prominent (annoying even) banners and links to make it easy to find, so i'm not sure that's the issue, but will consider it.

I'm certainly open to advertising that would be displayed only to unregistered and non-paying visitors. In the past, I've felt that our audience wasn't big enough to appealing to any of the ad networks, but that may not be the case any more... we're bigger and I agree the audience we attract would be appealing. thanks for your thoughts (and your support!)

 

[Kabillyhop]

the page to purchase a membership is kind of hidden in my opinion. I'd consider adding a prominent link on the main page instead of only having it buried in user profile settings which a user would rarely see.

I agree. I decided to buy a membership after reading this post. I didn't notice the link, so went hunting for the page. Eventually found it but it wasn't easy. Sales fundamental: the buying process must be simple and easy.

 

[josh]

I just renewed for another year.

Thank you so much! very kind of you, and thanks for all your longtime support.

Curious what happened to the two year membership? What about a lifetime membership? I'm in it for the long haul, so why not?

There's is still a 2-year membership, and a good reason I haven't offered anything time-based beyond that. A few years ago I was already reaching the point of considering shutting down the forum. I had decided that if I ever did wish to shut it, it wouldn't be fair to members who paid ahead for a year or 2 years. Therefore my process for a shut down was going to be: 1) completely stop taking new paid accounts but leave the forum otherwise as is. 2) let all paid memberships lapse over the following 1-2 with no changes. 3) shut it down, leaving no one with "time" left on their paid membership, or proactively offering pro-rata refunds of any paid-but-unavailable months. I could handle a 1-year shut down period, but 2 or more years just seemed too long... so in preparation for that possibility, i wanted to not offer longer period memberships.

A thought: Maybe you could work out an agreement with K to sell merchandise on this site. A company store, so to speak. T-shirts, Hats, Coasters, Banners, and the like. Tayloe hangs out here occasionally; maybe something could be agreed upon, and there could be some revenue generated to help the cause. Surely the existance of this site can be seen as a source of interest, advocacy, and enticement for sales of K equipment.
It seems to be worth a try to see what could be worked out.

Appreciate the creative ideas! I doubt that this would provide much meaningful revshare or margin dollars to the site, even IF Kaleidescape were open to it. It also might compromise the "independence" of this site from the company that's always been important to me.