February was never given, just that it wouldn't be the next one at the time, but the one following that. They usually release updates quarterly with the last one being in early January of this year, which puts the update with the fix on track for about a month or so from now, assuming that release cadence holds.
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[Buyer’s Guide] Kaleidescape Quality Compared to Blu-ray & other Digital Sources
- Thread starter Rmarci
- Start date
There are some issues they say they are trying to resolve but in addition to the product defects there are separately encoding issues they keep running into and that requires @Rmarci to let them know about. I don't think he is purchasing every film, so unfortunately those likely won't get resolved with the product fixes. @Rmarci has pointed them to known good recipes for encoding and they could fix those at any time if they desired
Opinions: why do you think they are still having encoding issues after this many months?
I’m a videographer… I travel… I film… I color grade, encode etc and always check my quality before sending anything to anyone. I don’t understand… encoding is a basic thing
Not sure, but my guess is that based on some of the other responses on here many of their customers are not discerning enough to care, so they're probably putting their limited resources to other uses, like marketing.
cinelife
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Actually, they are working to improve the encoding. I can't speak to details, but I know they often have problems with the mezzanine files they receive because although they tend to be fine for the streaming services, they can make extra work for K. They understand it's important to some people that they expedite their work, but there's more to the process than simply doing some of the things mentioned in this thread, but again, they are working on it. I get the slight, but I think most people know marketing has nothing to do with engineering, the employees in functional areas do not crossover. Their engineers are excellent, but there are multiple projects happening constantly, and each takes time.
They are not using the "I'm satisfied with my Strato/system" comments in this, and other threads as a reason to slow walk improvements, they recognize that some titles can be improved and they continue that effort.
Jim
They are not using the "I'm satisfied with my Strato/system" comments in this, and other threads as a reason to slow walk improvements, they recognize that some titles can be improved and they continue that effort.
Jim
The amount of money a company has to spend can be allocated many ways. If you're a company that values engineering excellence and product excellence, you spend your time and money in those areas. If you are a company that focuses on marketing and dealer relationships, that is where you devote your time and money.
We have all heard K is working to improve these things. It sounds like the folks that do not see any defects in the current product are fine with the response and believe the promises. I myself and it sounds like at least a few others are skeptical.
We have all heard K is working to improve these things. It sounds like the folks that do not see any defects in the current product are fine with the response and believe the promises. I myself and it sounds like at least a few others are skeptical.
You absolutely can shift your allocation between those areas. You can't devote zero to your product, but you can allocate less, and you can insufficiency allocate to product development.
I feel most of us are, which is about the defects in the product and their encoding.
This is something I've been wondering about. From what I know of video compression and encoding (not a lot, just enough to be dangerous) isn't there a difference in video encoding/compression for streamed videos versus non-streamed videos? Like, fast-start and things like that.
Sheer speculation: if K is getting files suitable for streaming which are less suitable for non-streaming devices. Having to re-encode/re-compress for playback from a disc of some sort could be very time consuming.
cinelife
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Everybody gets the same lossless mezzanine file from the studio and encodes it according to their own specifications and needs. KS doesnt get an inferior source than the bluray disc.
Streaming services will of course, use different encoding settings because the stream needs to be able to drop bitrate/quality seamlessly when the internet connection is not fast enough. However, what really affects compression quality is the bitrate and the preset being used.
- iTunes will often apply some filtering (DNR), and their streams are usually softer but cleaner than others.
- Movies Anywhere does not apply filtering, but if the mezzanine file is grainy, compression artifacts, noise, and banding can become visible. Otherwise, this streaming service can be as good a bluray discs with clean source.
- Blu-ray discs can also use DNR encodes depending on the source and the movie length, especially if they opt for a BD-66GB disc.
The problem with KS is that they don’t seem to perform proper quality checks against their mezzanine source, and they appear to have many issues selecting the correct colorspace in their encoding settings, which causes the green and red push I documented here. Not to mention the obvious invasive DNR and fake grain overlay they sometimes used (although I don’t think they do that anymore).
A simple pixel-peeping comparison of a few frames against the mezzanine source would immediately reveal these problems. That kind of basic verification is something any competent encoder(person) should be doing.
Streaming services will of course, use different encoding settings because the stream needs to be able to drop bitrate/quality seamlessly when the internet connection is not fast enough. However, what really affects compression quality is the bitrate and the preset being used.
- iTunes will often apply some filtering (DNR), and their streams are usually softer but cleaner than others.
- Movies Anywhere does not apply filtering, but if the mezzanine file is grainy, compression artifacts, noise, and banding can become visible. Otherwise, this streaming service can be as good a bluray discs with clean source.
- Blu-ray discs can also use DNR encodes depending on the source and the movie length, especially if they opt for a BD-66GB disc.
The problem with KS is that they don’t seem to perform proper quality checks against their mezzanine source, and they appear to have many issues selecting the correct colorspace in their encoding settings, which causes the green and red push I documented here. Not to mention the obvious invasive DNR and fake grain overlay they sometimes used (although I don’t think they do that anymore).
A simple pixel-peeping comparison of a few frames against the mezzanine source would immediately reveal these problems. That kind of basic verification is something any competent encoder(person) should be doing.
Yeah they mentioned having some form of automated detection for the color pushes but honestly especially on their new releases and certainly until they fix their constant errors I feel like pixel peeping shouldn't be an unreasonable commitment for them to make if quality is a priority for them.
I agree - this is totally fair and reasonable given the cost of K and the marketing pushing it. I am a very happy customer with K, but I do think its important to keep them on their toes and doing the very best that can be done.
Its disappointing that we are s till without any updates....more importantly...titles keep being released with these artifacts...I would have hoped that whatever work they have been doing as a result of @Rmarci work would have at least resulted in "lessons learned" and fewer and fewer new releases with the issues....but does not seem to be the case.
My biggest concern that this has gone beyond what can be fixed via software/firmware....which might explain the silence. I for one will jump ship if I am expected to buy a new player to address shortcomings of previous.
My biggest concern that this has gone beyond what can be fixed via software/firmware....which might explain the silence. I for one will jump ship if I am expected to buy a new player to address shortcomings of previous.
Interstellar HDR just updated with audio and video improvements !Interstellar, my favorite movie, is on sale right now, and I couldn't resist checking out the quality...
Interstellar (2014) kscape vs uhd-bd | Slowpoke Pics
Slowpoke Pics image comparison serviceslow.pics
- Clear signs of DNR + fake grain overlay. Look at the window on the right side of this image and here
- Green push and paler colors... Probably the result of their stupid DNR + fake grain.
- Wierd MDL HDR10 metadata. This movie has pixels that hit 3000nits
Looks like some poor experimental encoding... I wish KS would stop altering their mezzanine file.
Why are they even allowed to do that in the first place? Disrespectful to the intended look of this masterpiece movie.
Thanks for the update, I recently got a notice that the Christopher Nolan Batman series was updated.
A lot of work goes into what you do. Many thanks!!
Sixtus Beckmesser
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Here's an interesting thing. You have to suffer the indigeneity of owning a Sony something, something, 7000 projector, to get this. It's the Matrix Reloaded. If you watch the disc, then there is a lot of posterization on the freeway section, to the extent that it is almost a moiré pattern. On K it looks very good. If you've seen the disc, then you can just about see moiré/posterization patterns, but only just. This for me is a major enhancement over disc. For the rest of you, you're probably saying what?
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You have to be careful there because the Sony projectors have inherent banding in them. This has been demonstrated many times over.