[Buyer’s Guide] Kaleidescape Quality Compared to Blu-ray & other Digital Sources

[rafaelsmith]

Blade Runner 2049 on K also has a fine grain overlay on it… the uhd is cleaner and doesnt have this.
Boy i hope the K guys read all this and just leave it as the discs are!!!

Agreed. Its baffling for a platform that has no bandwidth or storage constraints and advertises to be equal to or better than disc to spend time and $$ on a process of encoding that introduces all these artifacts.

They have the hardware...the eco system...and a customer base willing to spend ungodly amounts of $$....why half ass the most important part?

 

[MarvinTheAndroid]

advertises to be equal to or better than disc

I don't think they do anymore I think they now just advertise to be '10x better' than streaming. I think the realisation that their ambition far exceeds their ability has finally caught up with them. If only they were also just 10x more expensive then perhaps some folks wouldn't mind so much.....

 

[Officer K]

Blade Runner 2049 on K also has a fine grain overlay on it… the uhd is cleaner and doesnt have this.
Boy i hope the K guys read all this and just leave it as the discs are!!!

I did a lot of direct comparisons on 2049 UHD to K, and I can't say I noticed this in my system, and I have a very high-end projection system with a Barco Bragi CS, Lumagen in a light controlled room on a 2.7metre wide SAT4k screen in a shadow box and its all been pro calibrated. The image is jaw droppingly good. Im travelling now for another month or so, but when I get home Ill have another look and compare them again.

 

[MartR]

I did a lot of direct comparisons on 2049 UHD to K, and I can't say I noticed this in my system, and I have a very high-end projection system with a Barco Bragi CS, Lumagen in a light controlled room on a 2.7metre wide SAT4k screen in a shadow box and its all been pro calibrated. The image is jaw droppingly good. Im travelling now for another month or so, but when I get home Ill have another look and compare them again.

Well i can see it clearly…
Also have a high-end system with JVC NZ9/DCR/Stewart st100/Madvr/Trinnov.
I can compare with uhd disc on the oppo 203 Cinemike and 1:1 Zappiti Cinemike and i can see it right away.
The Bragi has i guess half the light output i have so i guess it is not visually for you but that doesnt mean it isnt there
Trust me it is

 

[Officer K]

Well i can see it clearly…
Also have a high-end system with JVC NZ9/DCR/Stewart st100/Madvr/Trinnov.
I can compare with uhd disc on the oppo 203 Cinemike and 1:1 Zappiti Cinemike and i can see it right away.
The Bragi has i guess half the light output i have so i guess it is not visually for you but that doesnt mean it isnt there
Trust me it is

It isn't about light output... thats just a weird thing to say...... like I said, I'll take another look when I get home.

 

[KDeering]

I did a lot of direct comparisons on 2049 UHD to K, and I can't say I noticed this in my system, and I have a very high-end projection system with a Barco Bragi CS, Lumagen in a light controlled room on a 2.7metre wide SAT4k screen in a shadow box and its all been pro calibrated. The image is jaw droppingly good. Im travelling now for another month or so, but when I get home Ill have another look and compare them again.

What Strato player do you have?

 

[Officer K]

What Strato player do you have?

Strato V, connected up to a Lumagen for the video processing enroute to the Barco Bragi CS. Storm Audio is handling the audio.

 

[MartR]

It isn't about light output... thats just a weird thing to say...... like I said, I'll take another look when I get home.

It isn’t weird at all… with way more lightoutput these things are more visible i guess.

Offtopic:
By the way , nice speakers. I have the active 2520 and x15+ subs

 

[Officer K]

It isn’t weird at all… with way more lightoutput these things are more visible i guess.

Offtopic:
By the way , nice speakers. I have the active 2520 and x15+ subs

What you are describing cannot be attributed to just brightness or light output - I have plenty of light. This is an issue of resolution and I'll take the pepsi challenge against any JVC lens any day of the week. This is something else. I cant check until late April when I get back from O/S, but I cant recall seeing what you describe.. but that doesn't mean it isnt there. I just may have missed it.

Off Topic: Absolutely - I also have X15+ and X12+. Incredible speakers and subs!

 

[cinelife]

......
Boy i hope the K guys read all this and just leave it as the discs are!!!

I believe they stopped looking at this thread a while ago.....got tired of reading the same comments over and over again from the same people. Based on my conversations with K they are aware of Rmarci's comments, and are working to improve the areas they have control over. There is no longer any need to follow this thread just to read the same negative comments from a handful of people, there's nothing constructive in those posts.

Jim

 

[thrawn997]

There is no longer any need to follow this thread just to read the same negative comments from a handful of people, there's nothing constructive in those posts.

This is a thread of well documented and objective issues with an extremely expensive player that continues to bill itself as reference quality, I truly do not understand why authorized K dealers are attempting to pretend these things are not issues instead of arguing for consumers.

SInce K keeps releasing new films with issues clearly they do need this thread to know about them. Unless they're intentionally releasing poor encodes.

I truly do not think it is constructive to have authorized K dealers complaining that there is a thread discussing technical issues. There are plenty of other threads to comment on where they'd be delivering value.

 

[Rmarci]

There is no longer any need to follow this thread just to read the same negative comments from a handful of people, there's nothing constructive in those posts.

Are you serious, bro?
I just exposed five flawed movies (major blockbusters) with actual objective data.
Casino Royale, Interstellar, Blade Runner 2049, The Dark Knight, Inception.

Based on everything you’ve said over time, it’s clear that quality isn’t important to you. But it is for many people, and this thread has already gotten more views than most of the other threads on your precious website.

 

[MarvinTheAndroid]

I believe they stopped looking at this thread a while ago.....got tired of reading the same comments over and over again from the same people. Based on my conversations with K they are aware of Rmarci's comments, and are working to improve the areas they have control over. There is no longer any need to follow this thread just to read the same negative comments from a handful of people, there's nothing constructive in those posts.

Jim

Whilst I do agree that constant repetition of the same thing can not only get tiring but also isn't very constructive. However, the constant repetition does serve to highlight the fact, given the length of time that has elapsed, that the issues aren't being resolved.

If K doesn't want to read the same things over and over again there is a simple solution. They can fix the issues. It really doesn't get any more difficult than that. Burying heads in sand helps nobody and if K for some reason can't or won't fix things in a reasonable timeframe then a good communication plan is essential. Not ignoring the posts and saying very little or in some cases nothing at all.

In any case I grow weary of K now so will not bother posting my opinions after this lest it offend or bore them further. Being honest I do think my journey with K is now at an end and I should just bite the bullet and take the financial hit to reclaim my time and some sense of quality and sanity.

 

[cinelife]

Are you serious, bro?
I just exposed five flawed movies (major blockbusters) with actual objective data.
Casino Royale, Interstellar, Blade Runner 2049, The Dark Knight, Inception.

Based on everything you’ve said over time, it’s clear that quality isn’t important to you. But it is for many people, and this thread has already gotten more views than most of the other threads on your precious website.

I didn't say YOUR posts have no continuing value. I said that others posting the same comments everyday, that are not constructive, cause people to not view this thread. No one wants to be told that a product they purchased that is working fine to their eyes is somehow defective, and it was a bad purchase. You don't say that, but others do, either directly or indirectly based on the language in their posts. I've heard that from several members over the past month. I suspect K feels the same way. Does anyone really expect someone, or any company, to spend time on a thread reading comments that are critical of their motives, skills, calls them liars, says they should be sued in a class action, etc., to continue to read the threads comments? I think not, it's basic human nature to walk away.

I personally don't care what comments are made in the forum, as long as members don't make personal attacks on other members. Everyone has a right to post their feelings, and "push back" is normal when someone disagrees with something they read. The comment I made was in response to MartR's comment about K reading this thread, and my thoughts on why I don't believe they do.

That said, I'm sure they are continuing to work at improving their products, as they always have, and you've already made your findings known to K. I don't think they find YOUR comments to be a problem.

Quality is always important to me, but I might not measure it the way you do. Some of the "views" you mentioned are me, checking many times a day (10+) to be sure no one is making personal attacks on Members, and of course the same regulars that check in multiple times a day. YOUR posts do have value to some members, and that's great, so I'm sure those folks do check in regularly as well. Nowhere in my comment above did I say members weren't reading your thread. My comment above that asks "does anyone really expect someone...." refers to any person that felt like they were being unjustly attacked, and not members in general. Don'y worry, your thread still has value, you can see that by those that regularly comment.

BTW, the sarcasm ("precious website") is a waste of time, it's not possible to insult me, nor upset me.

Jim

 

[Officer K]

and the sh*t show continues...

The Dark Knight 2008

kscape vs uhd-bd | Slowpoke Pics

Slowpoke Pics image comparison service

slow.pics

- Green push and washed out colors.
- possibly fake grain overlay


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Blade Runner 2049 2017

Blade Runner 2049 (2017) kscape vs UK vs US BD | Slowpoke Pics

Slowpoke Pics image comparison service

slow.pics

- Washed out colors.
- UK BD seems over-sharpened. US BD is better IMO

I spent about half an hour looking at these comparisons (which were and are very interesting - thank you). I agree the UK BD seems over sharpened. On first blush, it has more acutance, but looking more closely its over cooked sharpening resulting in very fine halos. The Australian 4K BD is more or less identical to the US 4K BD.

Im not sure though I agree that the K version is washed out in comparison to the US BD. It's different and slightly more desaturated, but I wouldn't called that washed out. It could well be that the K version is more accurate with the directors intent (thats an unknown). It's an interesting comparison that shows a subtle difference; but I would not call one better than the other in this case (calling it either way is personal preference I think). I would just note them as different. Certainly from a resolution perspective they are close enough that it its splitting hairs.

Thank you for posting this though. Its a film I've probably seen a 100 times and am intimately familiar with so very much appreciated the screen grabs and interpretation.

 

[Rmarci]

Im not sure though I agree that the K version is washed out in comparison to the US BD. It's different and slightly more desaturated, but I wouldn't called that washed out. It could well be that the K version is more accurate with the directors intent (thats an unknown).

I guess we’ll know when/if KS updates Blade Runner in the next few weeks. They were quick to fix Spider-Man and Star Trek Beyond after I reported them for color inaccuracies and I’ve already had them correct several of their encodes that had color issues, though, so I definitely wouldn’t bet on KS being accurate on this one.

One that KS could actually be using a different master is Casino Royale, because the framing is different but the 4000nits brightness is odd.

I didn't say YOUR posts have no continuing value.

fair enough...

 

[MartR]

I didn't say YOUR posts have no continuing value. I said that others posting the same comments everyday, that are not constructive, cause people to not view this thread. No one wants to be told that a product they purchased that is working fine to their eyes is somehow defective, and it was a bad purchase. You don't say that, but others do, either directly or indirectly based on the language in their posts. I've heard that from several members over the past month. I suspect K feels the same way. Does anyone really expect someone, or any company, to spend time on a thread reading comments that are critical of their motives, skills, calls them liars, says they should be sued in a class action, etc., to continue to read the threads comments? I think not, it's basic human nature to walk away.

I personally don't care what comments are made in the forum, as long as members don't make personal attacks on other members. Everyone has a right to post their feelings, and "push back" is normal when someone disagrees with something they read. The comment I made was in response to MartR's comment about K reading this thread, and my thoughts on why I don't believe they do.

That said, I'm sure they are continuing to work at improving their products, as they always have, and you've already made your findings known to K. I don't think they find YOUR comments to be a problem.

Quality is always important to me, but I might not measure it the way you do. Some of the "views" you mentioned are me, checking many times a day (10+) to be sure no one is making personal attacks on Members, and of course the same regulars that check in multiple times a day. YOUR posts do have value to some members, and that's great, so I'm sure those folks do check in regularly as well. Nowhere in my comment above did I say members weren't reading your thread. My comment above that asks "does anyone really expect someone...." refers to any person that felt like they were being unjustly attacked, and not members in general. Don'y worry, your thread still has value, you can see that by those that regularly comment.

BTW, the sarcasm ("precious website") is a waste of time, it's not possible to insult me, nor upset me.

Jim

Well then i have news for you… they do read this thread and if you dont like what people write then dont read it.
Even better i get an email from K, from Andre who worked before at sony projector department and is now working for K.
And yes he said he and his co workers at K read this thread, he als explained what they do and what others like streaming services do with the picture.
I dont think that they appriciate it if i put that email here on public so i dont but i dont think that people will like what they said to be honest.
I can send a copy of that mail tot you if you want and to Marci who does all the heavy work on this thread.

Dont like it… dont read it…

 

[KDeering]

I guess we’ll know when/if KS updates Blade Runner in the next few weeks. They were quick to fix Spider-Man and Star Trek Beyond after I reported them for color inaccuracies and I’ve already had them correct several of their encodes that had color issues, though, so I definitely wouldn’t bet on KS being accurate on this one.

One that KS could actually be using a different master is Casino Royale, because the framing is different but the 4000nits brightness is odd.


fair enough...

You mentioned in the past that you are posting these here but also emailing the info to K directly. Are you still doing that? I really appreciate the work you are doing even if I don’t have all the same issues (because I use a Strato C).

 

[Rmarci]

You mentioned in the past that you are posting these here but also emailing the info to K directly. Are you still doing that? I really appreciate the work you are doing even if I don’t have all the same issues (because I use a Strato C).

Yes, it doesn’t matter whether KS reads this thread or not. They gave me a private email where I can send all my comparisons and feedback.
I also post them publicly here because I want others to be aware of the issues and to put some pressure on KS to fix them more quickly.

There are also a few titles that were updated in the last few weeks that I still need to check. I’m just waiting for the firmware update before reviewing them again, because I suspect the player not only adds block artifacts but may also apply some denoising to brighter pixels.

 

[thrawn997]

I didn't say YOUR posts have no continuing value. I said that others posting the same comments everyday, that are not constructive, cause people to not view this thread. No one wants to be told that a product they purchased that is working fine to their eyes is somehow defective, and it was a bad purchase. You don't say that, but others do, either directly or indirectly based on the language in their posts

What are the same comments you are seeing posted every day? The “there is nothing to see here, move along” or the “my customers are happy, only small minority see an issue”, or is the ones critical of these flaws that are serious to me and other K users? You say people are making personal attacks, but it is hard to read your response as anything but a personal attack against people who are unhappy with Ks response to these defects.