Whole House A/V...

[mantonuc]

Hey everyone,


I have a question on trying to establish a whole house A/V solution and am curious if anyone has found a solution that works well. In a life long past, my wife and I used to play in a very "local" rock band, and really enjoyed the time spent. That was perhaps 20 years ago. Since then, we no longer play in bands but we still really enjoy music and especially music videos... In fact, when ever we through parties, we will distribute whole-house A/V of music vides we have residing on our first-gen CinemaOne, using Component and/or composite video out of the C1...

We bought our house about 14 years ago and at that time, the builder had run Composite Video and L/R audio to several places around the home... That works OK for DVD quality videos but obviously will not support Blue-ray, which is high def... So, the goal we are trying to accomplish would be to distribute High-def A/V throughout the home... Specifically, the same Video to multiple TV's around the house. We have ethernet run to those places where it would be vital to have that capability, but not everywhere in the home...

I had considered getting multiple K players, and then trying to "stream" the same video to multiple TV's in the house, but I believe K does not support the same video going to multiple players... So the question is, are any of you doing a similar thing and if so, what is the solution. How about highdef via Moca, if even possible?


Matt

 

[djb_rh]

You may want to look into HDMI video distribution solutions over the Cat5 you have. You can definitely do it if you have two Cat5 cables to each location, but if your runs aren't *too* long you should be able to do it with one run to each location, too. That'll get you video and audio in high def.

The boxes are sold in transmitter/receiver pairs -or- you can get HDMI splitters with the transmitter side built in and independent receivers.

The thing to pay attention to is that they aren't kidding when they say not to adjust the power to the strongest setting. Start at the lowest setting and adjust one click at a time up until you get solid picture and stop there. Also, *I* have found that most, if not all, of the ones I have used required one MORE click up after being in use a few weeks or a month. I doubt it will hurt anything to go one click "too high" at the start, but you can hurt things if you go MANY clicks too high to start.

The first sign of HDMI signal degradation over the extenders is white pixels in random spots in dark locations of your video signal. The HDMI extender equivalent of "snow", if you will. If that happens, almost always setting the extender one click stronger fixes it.

Jim (cinelife on this forum) recommends Lumagen extenders, IIRC. And he definitely recommends Blue Jeans Cables (BJC) HDMI cables. Buying cheap HDMI cables can be bad, but buying expensive cables (like Transparent) is probably a waste of money. Any functional Cat5 cable with quality crimped ends should work fine for the extenders.


--Donnie

 

[Kevin D]

With the advent of the HDBaseT standard, the usual problems of the HDMI baluns has been eliminated. HDBaseT is one Cat5 with no adjustments, it just typically works. Max distance is determined by type of category cable.

The standard allows for ethernet pass-through, but not many of the baluns offer that yet.

Kevin D.

 

[Yetis]

MOCA will NOT work. You need Cat 5e, though cat 6 likely isn't a bad idea. You should run at least to runs to each location and likely a control wire. Here is the hardware you will need.

Atlona

http://www.atlona.com/PRO2HD88M.html

http://www.atlona.com/PRO2HDREC.html


Zektor

http://www.zektor.com/products_clarity_hd_v2_8x8.html

http://www.zektor.com/products_solocat_hde.html

 

[Kevin D]

Thinking about it, your cheapest bet is Zeevee, assuming the following is true:

1) All tv's have a digital tuner.
2a) All tv's have a coax cable distribution or
2b) The composite cables come to a central place and can be converted to a cable distribution system. IE, you either need to mix in to an existing cable/antenna distribution, our create your own.
3) You have a M player you can dedicate to component video, or switch when needed.

http://zeevee.com/products/zvpro/zvpro620-610

It's basically an HD modulator so that the output of the player becomes a standard HD channel any tv can tune to.

Kevin D.

 

[Yetis]

Do they own the K m players yet? Doesn't the sunset provision mean that new K players don't have component connections?

 

[Kevin D]

True, if they don't have one shipped in 2011, they would breed to attire one for zeevee to work.

 

[mantonuc]

Hey everyone,



Thanks for all of the responses. There are some good ideas there... I was aware of HDBaseT but had not thought of that as a solution for my predicament… First off, most of the mainstream A/V gear has yet to start supporting HDBaseT… Not a single TV that I own (maybe 10 in all) have HDBaseT built in. Not a single bit of my current A/V gear supports HDBaseT (McIntosh, Theta, Denon). That being said, I read up on the technology this weekend and it seems like a fantastic solution in the not so distant future. One cat6 run can support full UHD, Deep-color, any known digital audio format currently available, 3D, IR and RS232 control, POE, plus a 100 MB ethernet stream thrown in for good measure - WOW… One of the specific things it supports is point-to-multipoint audio/video distribution. This is what I am looking to do. A single video source being distributed to multiple TV’s through the house…

I just looked up ZeeVee and that seems like exactly what I am looking for (thanks Kevin). But, in regards to the issue with the Analog sunset, that is an interesting one… I had an existing 1st generation C1 server/player (obviously not HD) that literally just took a dump this weekend… I am considering stepping up to a full M-class Premier server & player. That obviously will support full HD, but I am not sure what is going to happen with the analog outputs… The previous servers had component-video and the web site still shows that as an output on the backs of the units, but I am wondering what “K” is shipping now. I have asked the question of my dealer and am awaiting the answer.

According to an article I just read on consumerreports.org, the analog sunset could (at the discretion of the studio) down convert the video to 960x540 on analog outputs. That is just slightly higher than native DVD, but a full 1/4 the resolution of full-HD. IMHO, in Hollywood's typical overreaching to prevent “illegal” copying, all they have really done is prevent law abiding users from consuming our legally purchased content to their fullest extent possible. The AACS encryption has long since been cracked, so those that choose to steal movies can do so at will… It is those of us trying to play by the rules (i.e., K system owners) that are being punished - OK, off my soap box now

Back to ZeeVee products and the link added by Kevin. According to their site, the Zvpro620-610 units takes as their inputs component video (analog) inputs. There is still the question of analog sunset, as discussed above. However, they make a slightly upscale model called the Zvpro820-810. Those units takes as their input HDMI directly (dual and single streams respectively)… That makes me wonder if that can avoid the whole analog issue to start with. If so, that is the exact ticket I am looking for… I will investigate and let you know what they say...



Matt

 

[Kevin D]

Well unfortunately the sun has set. From the get go with the M class players, component video was limited to 480p output on standard DVD's. Any player shipped after Dec 2011 limits the component video on Blu-rays to 480p as well.

You could certainly upgrade to a full premier server and players and find a used M300 shipped before Dec 2011 for the whole house setup.

On the Zeevee HDMI piece, it's non-HDCP compliant. Due to sending a unprotected HD signal to multiple TV's. That said, there's a few HDMI to HDMI devices that circumvent HDCP and allow you to use the HDMI Zeevee piece (and 1080p). They're generally cheaply made and don't last forever, plus finding one is an issue. One that reportedly might have taken care of HDCP at one point might suddenly not on new shipments.

Much easier to find is an HDMI to component converter (HDFury). Better built and easy to guarantee compatibility. You will be limited to 1080i/720p, but could use the cheaper Zeevee unit with no issues.

Kevin D.

 

[Kevin D]

True, if they don't have one shipped in 2011, they would breed to attire one for zeevee to work.

Obviously I should double-check before replying from my phone.. Should be 'need to acquire one'..

Kevin D.

 

[mantonuc]

Hi Kevin,


So, that' what you meant with that one sentence Autocorrect is evil some times...

So, I just got a call from ZeeVee and sure enough, they confirmed that the 820/810 are HDCP complient, and thus will not pass the HDCP protected HDMI content downstream. I guess it's the 620/610, HDFury, and then just living with a lessor quality 1080i signal. The list price for the 620 is only $80 cleaper than the 820, so not saving much there... The Fury will wipe out that savings and then some. For my purposes, your idea is at least a solution and I can live with 1080i. Thanks...


Matt

 

[Kevin D]

The Fury will send 1080p over the VGA output, and I believe the Zeevee will accept it. The only question at that point is whether all your tv's can accept a 1080p atsc signal.

Kevin

 

[douglasvb]

HD BaseT Matrix 4x4 or 8x8, plus 4-8 Yamaha RX-A740's; Period. I wouldn't support any other solution, even though many workarounds exist.

 

[Yetis]

I thought of you when I saw this. Pretty cool product. Doesn't require a central switcher. Pretty smart product!

http://www.wyrestorm.com/catalog/networkhd

 

[brodricj]

...I had considered getting multiple K players, and then trying to "stream" the same video to multiple TV's in the house, but I believe K does not support the same video going to multiple players..

This is possible, I seem to recall we talked about it in the forum here a few years ago. The jist of it is you need to connect the players to a control system via their serial ports (not supported for M300), and then have the control system coded to make it happen.

 

[mantonuc]

That would be cool if it is that easy... I still do not have a "control system", but that is next on my list of things to do. That being said, I would expected it would be a relatively simple tweak to the existing KOS to make that happen. In essence, it would be a "broadcast" to all listening players on the network. I would think this is something that people would make good use of...

Any idea of what thread that was in or approximately when it was active?


Matt

 

[brodricj]

..Any idea of what thread that was in or approximately when it was active?

Yep, you'll find it here:
http://www.kscapeowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=999

 

[JohnJ]

On a related note - if you start the same script from two different players and get them to start at the same time will they remain sync'd up through playing a bunch of different scenes or will there be slightly different delays through the two players?

John

 

[brodricj]

I've got a hunch you'd be at risk of losing sync over time, which is why multi-zone player syncronization would be a nice feature to have built into kOS (we've asked for it, don't know how much traction we got with K about it).

 

[josh]

yes, as brodricj points out, I found a geeky-but-not-TOO-hard way to do this. It involves sending commands to your players over TCP/IP. It's actually pretty cool to issue commands to your kaleidescape with a terminal window from any mac or PC. read that old thread linked above and you'll see how I got a single movie or concert to play on every player throughout my house in perfect synchronization.