CONFIRMED FIXED: Unable to import: "King of Kong"

[josh]

Guess what... another one. The new documentary "King of Kong" doesn't import either. Another New Line release.

Many of you will think I'm overreacting, but I think this is a huge issue for Kaleidescape. Our systems have always worked just as claimed - import any DVD and store it on the server. Now it's not working... some just won't import. Three in the last few months. Personally, I suspect this trend will grow if the studios have indeed found a way to thwart loading the disc on Kaleidescape in a way that doesn't cause any problems on other DVD players.

I think it's a serious problem... I personally don't like equipment where the manufacturer is constantly in an "arms race" with an industry, and it seems Kaleidescape may now be entering such a phase in its evolution. It's very distracting and a drain on resources, so innovation suffers.

I'm probably the only one who would say this, but for the first time I think I would honestly tell a prospective Kaleidescape owner not to buy it - or at the very least to wait for a while. No announced hi-definition format support... and now the first signs that some new DVDs won't work either. If we just don't know how many more new movies won't work on our equipment, then it doesn't really fulfill it's promise.

Hopefully, they'll quickly get a new software release out that properly loads New Line discs and start restoring our confidence.

OK, go ahead, start the "you're over-reacting" responses... I'm ready.

--josh

 

[sshearer]

Josh,

I have the same concerns that you do, but not YET am I as worried as you. My understanding is that the engineers at KScape are very good at what they do and I would at least like to give them (for a short while) the benefit of the doubt that they will be able to resolve this issue. My greater concern is that the resolution might require hardware upgrades rather than software upgrades. I certainly hope not as that would be a huge issue for KScape and us users to deal with.

If there is not a fairly quick resolution to this New Line issue (or at least a public acknowledgment by KScape that they are working on this issue diligently and anticipate a solution), then I share the same concerns you do. We have all spent a great deal of money on our equipment and to think that we may never know if a new release will import or not is very scary and disconcerting. It would certainly be a major factor if I was looking to purchase KScape for the first time. While I am not happy about the inability to import High Definition DVDs (HD DVD and Blu-Ray), I can certaiinly understand the legal issues involved with that and am willing to let that issue play out while the industry comes up with a managed copy or similar resolution (or we go directly to downloads of high definition movies to the KScape box).

What is also very disconcerting to me (and presumably to KScape also) is that other companies who do not want to play by the rules (i.e. require their users to utilize third-party ripping tools) can offer their customers a system that will import high definition movies and probably even the current crop of New Line movies we are unable to. Yet the movie industry seems to let those people go on happily with their life and turn around and sue KScape and make their discs unable to be imported when KScape is the one player that is doing everything legally correct and is going out of their way to do everything to make sure their equipment can only be used in a completely legal manner and respects the intellectual property rights of the studios. I even read a story lately about a KScape dealer who had a customer all ready to sign a purchase order for a Kscape system. At the last minute, the customer said he wanted larger hard drives because he was going to rent a lot of movies from NetFlix (or BlockBuster) and needed more space for all those rentals. The dealer refused to sell the KScape system to that customer.

In summary, I am willing to wait a short while to give KScape time to resolve these issues. If they can't (or don't), then I don't think you are overreacting at all, Josh.

Scott

 

[JerryL]

I share the same sentiments as the both of you. One thing to consider- kscape customers are a fairly special group- with many celebs in there- I am sure "we" can get some good support in the industry.

Btw- do these discs play in the player ?

 

[josh]

Btw- do these discs play in the player ?

I have only a Movie Player 1, so can't tell you if they play in an MP2.

--josh

 

[josh]

My greater concern is that the resolution might require hardware upgrades rather than software upgrades. I certainly hope not as that would be a huge issue for KScape and us users to deal with.

I'm not worried about that, I think it's very unlikely. The drive hardware is fairly standard in computers and other DVD players, and many of those can presumably play these discs or we'd hear more issues around the web.

--josh

 

[josh]

Glimmer of hope?

After Scott suggested it could be hardware, I did some more research on software rippers to see if there were reports about Hairspray, King of Kong, or Shoot 'em Up.

PC-based software ripper called "AnyDVD" just came out with a new release. The release notes specifically mention that the previous version aborted on Hairspray which they fixed with an update.

Changes in version 6.2.0.2, 2007 11 21:
- Fix (HD DVD): Black screen with re-release of "Planet Earth" series.
- Fix (DVD): Although CloneDVD2 worked with "Hairspray" (US), AnyDVD ripper aborted with a "VobSet 1" error. This is fixed now

This is from these release notes.

So if that company found a simple change to let Hairspray import, maybe Kaleidescape will find the same things... and hopefully it will fix it for all New Line problem discs.

--josh

 

[josh]

Here's another report of specific problems software rippers were having with Hairspray, and mentions of new versions of the software that corrected the problem.
http://forum.lgsoftwareinnovations.com/showthread.php?t=21314

so my fingers are crossed that this means that it IS fixable by Kaleidescape and will be addressed soon. I'll still remain concerned this will be an ongoing battle and will happen more often and take resources from Kaleidescape engineering that would otherwise be directed at improvements and future products.

 

[cinelife]

Like you guys I really like the system and all that it brings to our entertainment experience. Although I'm not quite ready to worry about this current issue, I do acknowledge K will have to resolve the import problem in a timely manner (read as "very soon"). The good news is, I believe they are more than capable of dealing with this issue and I assume they are already working on it. (Yes, it would be nice to hear this from K.)

I can tell you that one of K's competitors is apparently selling well here and I was able to confirm that at least one of those owners has been able to import "Shoot em up." Yes, it is with third party software, but he is not concerned. He also has a couple of hundred HD disks imported. He considered K, and waited for four months hoping for HD support, then gave up when he read K's updated response to HD importing in the FAQ a few months ago. He bought the competing system.

I'm also the dealer that declined to sell the system (Netflix issue). That buyer has reportedly also moved on to the "competitor." He has a bunch of HD material (BR and HD-DVD) so the Netflix issue aside, he will probably be happier with that system.

Having said that, I'm not ready to jump ship. I believe in K and what they represent. I'll continue to sell ONLY their products, but acknowledge that we are losing sales, and these new issues if not quickly resolved are likely to contribute to declining sales.

Jim

 

[JerryL]

Interesting info guys. My hope is this is simply a coincidence and not intentional on the part of NewLine.

I can't imagine K not reacting to this in a speedy manner. They have been terrific with customer service so far.

 

[cinelife]

.......I can't imagine K not reacting to this in a speedy manner. They have been terrific with customer service so far.

Agreed. I think we just feel better after venting.

Jim

 

[josh]

I agree that Kaleidescape has had outstanding customer service. However, I'm a bit disappointed that the Hairspray issue was reported to Kaleidescape on Dec. 2nd. So it's been 2 months. The software rippers had a fix out that dealt with it very quickly. (Yes, I'm aware the K has much higher standards of supportability, testing, and quality and that should take some time.) But would be nice if they said they had it fixed and were working on a software update. I've asked and been told just that they're aware of the problem. No ETA, no commitment.

 

[JerryL]

Josh,
I agree with you that some communication from K would be very welcome. This situation reminds me of one of phrase my good friend Bob, who is a fellow K owner, has shared with me and which I find I use frequently. Its called Hanlon's Razor:

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

 

[cinelife]

Jerry, that does sound like something Bob would say.

Perhaps we can get some updated info this week. I'll try, and I'll post what I learn (if anything).

Jim

 

[ejfiii]

This is a disaster guys. As the biggest K supporter out here - most of my system sales includes a K system - I have to say that the best GUI, best support, best hardware, best Crestron integration doesn't matter 1% if the movies can't be imported.

Anyone have problems with the Third and newest Bourne movie? Client bought the boxed set and the first two imported fine, but the third one is a no go. Waiting on additional info from them.

 

[JerryL]

The Bourne Ultimatum (AFAIK) imported fine on my system.

EJ- I think "disaster" is a bit strong. How about putting a "potential" in front of it. Lets see what happens.

As far as recommending the system- 99.99% of DVDs out there work with it today- I think the big question really is whether someone can easily afford it or its a big stretch. If its the former, then its easier to recommend. If its the latter, lets face it, DVD is a great archival format but HD of some sort is going to take hold. I would like to see K offer something on the HD front.

 

[Croptop]

Anyone have problems with the Third and newest Bourne movie? Client bought the boxed set and the first two imported fine, but the third one is a no go. Waiting on additional info from them.

I had no problem importing the DVD version of The Bourne Ultimatum onto my Kaleidescape system via a Movie Player 2. This may not be a direct apples to apples comparison, however, as I was importing the DVD side of the HD DVD/DVD combo disc.

 

[cinelife]

If I'm not mistaken, one of my clients has all of the Bourne movies imported. (I only have the HD-DVD series)

It sounds like that single disk may have a problem.

Jim

 

[cinelife]

As some of you have also done, I spoke with K this morning. There is nothing new to report beyond what Josh already noted above. They are aware of the import issue, they are evaluating the authoring being utilized for those disks, and they expect to resolve the issue going forward.

They are unable to provide a time period for fixing the issue, but hope to resolve this soon.

Also, nothing new to report on HD content importing.

Jim

 

[JerryL]

For the record I do have the Bourne HDDVD which I believe is a combo disc.

 

[ejfiii]

Thanks guys. Maybe disaster is too strong a word - but maybe not. Put yourself in my shoes - as an installer of ultra high end automation systems. Whether or not the client is stretching to get the Kscape system has no bearing if I have to qualify the system as saying it will import 99.99% of DVDs out there." Or "it will import all the DVDs except for the new releases from New Line Cinema." No matter how slick the interface is, or the Crestron integration or all the other selling points that I use every day, the only thing that matters to the customer is that when they buy the disc it can go on the system. That one disc - out of a possible collection of hundreds the client may own - will leave a sour taste in their mouths about the experience.

Unfortunately that is just the way it is at the level I am playing. My systems are ultra expensive and exclusive because they are simple to operate and because they work. period.