Support for Remote Power On / Off

[Calm-One]

Has anyone (especially dealers/installers) had a conversation with Kaleidescape about including the native ability of having remote power control?

When I have asked my dealer before I have only gotten the "Kscape will inform us when your system is offline for a period of time, they probably wouldn't consider this as it runs counter to that practice." Other dealers give me the "you can afford it" line to which I counter that a $200 DirecTV receiver has the option. . .

I see in other forums elsewhere where installers gripe about the lack of the feature.

I know I could get a APC switched PDU and control it, but having a native fetaure beats this hands down.

I am hoping that this thread generates some noise where those at Kaleidescape go "hey, there is some pull out there for this feature request" and we can market it as a "green" or "eco" play. . .

Cheers

 

[djb_rh]

I guess I can't help but ask why YOU want the feature? Is it for the "green"ness of it all, or something else?

K's answer to this is *probably* that they can't guarantee you the best user experience if you're turning your server off for long periods of time since you won't be fully updated when you power it in and start slamming it with movie imports. Sure, they could mitigate that with occasional self-power-on to update and then power back down, I suppose, but my guess is that will require updates to hardware and probably isn't a highly requested enough feature to justify the engineering expense.

Basically, it's not trivial. I'm guessing you realize that and simply want to stir up enough user support for the movement that they feel it's worthwhile to do it. Good luck with that. I doubt MOST users care since MOST use their Kscape regularly...


--Donnie

 

[Calm-One]

"I doubt MOST users care since MOST use their Kscape regularly..."

Do you tell the kids that since they use your house lights regularly, just leave them on 24x7?

Some vendors seem to think it's worth enough "to justify the engineering expense."

The family uses inexpensive $200 DirecTV receiver/DVRs more often and in more rooms; it has this feature.

The family uses the various monitors, in my case Sony, all have this feature.

When the family is in rooms with AVRs, in my case Denon, each and every AVR has this feature.

But my top of the line, Kaleidescape product which costs as much as a car doesn't?!?

My actual requirement is to extend the life of my Kaliedescape products, the idea of keeping them running all day long for four hours of actual usage doesn't seem logical for a non-critical household component to my EE trained self.

24x7 power consumption, heat degrading internal components, the cost of powering rack fans to counter heat exhaust, household HVAC consumption, etc, all can be used to justify an argument in favor of the requested feature.

Oh, and the car which I could have bought instead of a Kscape system has remote start too. . . H3 or Prius. . .

 

[djb_rh]

Getting the client to power down further than it does now should be easy, though I'm guessing the response there is "it barely uses any power anyway." As for the DirecTV thing, the DVRs don't "turn off", they just look like they do. The other receivers? But in "standby" they use about as much power as the Kscape client box.

On the server side, well, that's the part I say "good luck" with. That part would be a bigger engineering challenge. I'm glad you're "EE trained", but I'm "CPE trained" and know a thing or two about such matters myself. It can be done, certainly...

Yeah, I am with you in spirit, I'm just not sure *this* one thing is worth it in the grand scheme. My bigger crusade is getting more companies to do what K does in terms of letting me turn off all the damned LEDs on the front (and even back) of components via software. Let me know when any DTV box can do that! (Yes, I do know how to turn off the "eye" in the middle, but that only lasts until the next reboot and then you have to do it again.)


--Donnie

 

[Croptop]

It's not a built-in solution but I keep all of my K servers (and my vaults) on Belkin WeMo outlets (each WeMo can handle up to 15 amps so you can keep multiple servers on one outlet). This lets me remotely power them on/off via an iOS app (which is the one downside for me; I'd be much happier if they would release an Android app or at least a platform agnostic web interface).

Best part is that I can remotely power the servers on/off no matter where I am since the app can communicate with the WeMo across disparate networks.

But as Donnie mentioned, you *do* have to remember to leave your server(s) powered up in order to get the latest movie and music database updates.

 

[DigitalStudioWerks]

As a Kaleidescape dealer and Crestron dealer/programmer I do this using WTI's in the rack. We can automatically power on the players when you want to watch a movie or listen to music on Kaleidescape and power off the players when your are finished. We DO NOT recommend that you power down your vault (if you have one) or server(s) for various reasons.

If you are using a control system such as Crestron or any control system where you can program RS232/IP controls you can do the same thing.

As a side note, in my home, everything that goes into standby gets powered down via Crestron and the WTI's. Receivers, a few displays, etc. I personally do not power down our Kaleidescape players.

 

[Prof Yaffle]

Out of interest, why do you not recommend powering down a Vault? I have a new M700 that I'm just finishing up using to bulk load my collection. Once this completes, I was thinking of putting it on overnight power down using a plug timer - auto switches off at eg 11:30pm and on at 8am - similar to some of my other kit (amps, standalone players, plasma, etc).

Appreciate any advice.

Simon

 

[Kevin D]

From the knowledge base:

Kaleidescape recommends leaving a server turned on for the following reasons:
This allows for immediate access to the library of content stored on the server, without waiting for it to start up.
Kaleidescape can only proactively notify the dealer when a disk cartridge is about to fail or other maintenance is required if the server is powered on.
The server will receive software and Movie and Music Guide updates more quickly if it remains powered on.
Frequent power cycling may stress the hard disk drives.
In some circumstances, such as when a vacation property sits vacant for months at a time, the owner of a Kaleidescape System may consider these factors and still decide to turn the server off while the home is unoccupied.

Kaleidescape recommends leaving servers powered on for the reasons outlined in [K001393]. In some circumstances, such as when a vacation property sits vacant for months at a time, the owner of a Kaleidescape System may consider these factors and still request that the server be powered down while the home is unoccupied.

In these cases, a Kaleidescape 1U or 3U Server may be connected to a power sequencer connected to a control system. If the server is on and the power is cut, then, when the power is restored, the server will turn on automatically.

Due to differences in disk drive technology, Kaleidescape recommends NOT using a power sequencer or controlled outlet to turn a 5U Server on and off.

There is no control protocol command to turn a Kaleidescape Server on or off via RS-232 or TCP/IP.

As discussed the players can be turned on/off by various means.

Kevin D.

 

[josh]

Has anyone (especially dealers/installers) had a conversation with Kaleidescape about including the native ability of having remote power control?
...
I am hoping that this thread generates some noise where those at Kaleidescape go "hey, there is some pull out there for this feature request" and we can market it as a "green" or "eco" play. . .

Yep... there's a section of this board for "Feature & Enhancement Requests" and I started a similar request way back in 2008 on this. But almost no owners cared as much as I did about it, and the thread got little attention from other members and certainly little attention at Kaleidescape. They DO look at these requests (they recently implemented my suggestion about Common Sense Media), so it wouldn't hurt to resurrect that old thread by adding a comment to it, or starting your own request if you'd like something sufficiently different.

By the way, I also measured the actual power drain of some Kaleidescape equipment, and it's NOT trivial and way more than most consumer electronic equipment. Stats and thread on this here. I got pretty skewered for even raising the topic, as you'll see. Most owners felt like it was just a silly thing to even worry about... just as you predicted, the reactions were mostly "if you can afford a Kaleidescape, you can afford $1000 per year in extra electricity, so who cares?!" I responded that needless electricity waste is simply bad for all of us, whether or not I felt like I can personally afford the bill for it... it's unnecessary consumption of resources. But it seemed on the verge of breaking into a politically charged discussion on energy usage, global warming, or whatever. Never got many people here riled up as I was, but glad to see this come back to the forefront and hope attitudes have changed somewhat by now.

--josh

 

[djb_rh]

Josh, I agree with you, but I couldn't find any more info on how much the players draw. For many, having the server on all the time is the best option, and hopefully the smaller servers with newer drives are doing better on power, anyway.

But players may be an entirely different situation. Did you measure that? If so, did I miss it? I cruised through the three pages of the thread you referenced.


--Donnie

 

[DigitalStudioWerks]

Out of interest, why do you not recommend powering down a Vault?
Simon

The disc vault is necessary to watch a blu-ray movie since Kaleidescape verifies the blu-ray disc is in the vault. If you have multiple blu-ray players turning the vault on and off, verifying (through programming) if a blu-ray player is in use, if it's playing a regular movie or a blu-ray movie, etc takes up programming time (@ $225.00 per hr) that I feel it is not worth.

Also, since the M700 is also an M-Class player it's not really something I would do or recommend to a client.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Transepoch]

Out of interest, why do you not recommend powering down a Vault?

The vaults also insist on performing an inventory at restart, so waiting for that and causing all that extra activity are things I wouldn't want to subject it to on a daily schedule. If it was a longer period of in-/activity then it may be fine.

 

[Croptop]

The vaults also insist on performing an inventory at restart, so waiting for that and causing all that extra activity are things I wouldn't want to subject it to on a daily schedule. If it was a longer period of in-/activity then it may be fine.

This is not true. The vault does not conduct an inventory on restart.

 

[Croptop]

This is not true. The vault does not conduct an inventory on restart.

Allow me to clarify as my statement above was not completely accurate:
At startup, the vault *does* quickly determine which slots in the carousel are populated. It does not, however, re-identify each disc individually.

Note that this is done on a regular basis even if you keep the vault powered up at all times so there is really no time savings or reduction in activity.

 

[josh]

Josh, I agree with you, but I couldn't find any more info on how much the players draw. For many, having the server on all the time is the best option, and hopefully the smaller servers with newer drives are doing better on power, anyway.

But players may be an entirely different situation. Did you measure that? If so, did I miss it? I cruised through the three pages of the thread you referenced.


--Donnie

funny, i thought I did measure it but I can't find it posted either. i can try to measure the new M-class players if I get the chance.

 

[Transepoch]

At startup, the vault *does* quickly determine which slots in the carousel are populated. It does not, however, re-identify each disc individually.

Note that this is done on a regular basis even if you keep the vault powered up at all times so there is really no time savings or reduction in activity.

I hear a lot more activity than one of its periodic checks (regardless of if it is related to the the carousel slot-check or just "stretching its legs" as a startup diagnostic.)