QUESTION for Premiere Owners

[iansilv]

I think thats a dealer question. But a good one!

The problem is my "dealer" is Magnolia in Best Buy... I am pretty sure they won't know. Anyone here know the answer?

 

[cinelife]

The answer is, you will pay a separate fee ($495 in U.S.). One reason for the separate fee is because anyone using the Lumagen Pro that already has a Co-Star is likely to sell the Co-Star, and it's one license per Co-Star and each system using the service needs a separate license.


Jim

 

[sbutter]

The answer is, you will pay a separate fee ($495 in U.S.). One reason for the separate fee is because anyone using the Lumagen Pro that already has a Co-Star is likely to sell the Co-Star, and it's one license per Co-Star and each system using the service needs a separate license.


Jim

Is this confirmed?

Is the software different? Or just different hardware?

 

[iansilv]

The answer is, you will pay a separate fee ($495 in U.S.). One reason for the separate fee is because anyone using the Lumagen Pro that already has a Co-Star is likely to sell the Co-Star, and it's one license per Co-Star and each system using the service needs a separate license.


Jim

Gotcha- that seems reasonable.

 

[cinelife]

Is this confirmed?

Is the software different? Or just different hardware?

Yes, you WILL pay a separate fee to use this feature with the Lumagen. My understanding is that there was a modification of the software to work with the Pro. Obviously different hardware as well.

This isn't about what differences exist. It is simply that a licensing fee is being charged for each device utilizing the software developed to allow for this switching capability. It's no different than if an owner needed the switching at 3 different locations in their home, they would need to buy 3 separate licenses ($495 each), and if purchased from K, a Switch Kit would be included with each license purchase. Another way to look at this is K is supplying the Switch Kit when an owner buys the software license. In the case of the Lumagen, K didn't need to supply a Switch with the license because the Lumagen already supports switching on its own.


Jim

 

[steelman1991]

Struggling to understand the concept behind this, though perhaps it's just not for me. I currently have a Co-Star switch, so what does the Lumagen option bring to the table that I don't already have? color me confused

Are people suffering delays in switching/playing content. Apologies if it's just me being dense (no smart comments now fellas) - but I just don't get it

 

[Mark H]

Nothing I don’t think. As I understand it since I asked the same and was told that if you have a Co-star you can keep using but if you have a Lumagen Pro you can now get a software license from Kaleidescape for $495 and ditch the Co-star. If you are adding to a system and have the Lumagen Pro it might be worth going the license route rather than additional hardware and cables. Seems the license costs more than the physical switch.

 

[cinelife]

Mark's got it, that's exactly right. There are many K owners that have the Lumagen Pro in their systems, used primarily for better control over video scaling, calibration, and switching, among other things. There are also K owners considering a Lumagen Pro for use in their systems. It is for these owners and future owners that K and Lumagen got together to offer this capability and thereby eliminate the need for a Switch Kit being added to the video chain (meaning all the components and cables in between the source and the display).

If you currently have the Switch Kit, there is no major benefit to moving that (switching) function to the Lumagen other than eliminating the Kit from the chain, and possibly a slight improvement in switching speed between inputs (reported by Lumagen). To be clear, I personally like and use the Pro in my system, and have been using Lumagen products to improve video performance for 12+ years, it is a wonderful switch as well. (Disclosure: my company sells Lumagen products, but I was an owner long before adding the Lumagen products to our line.)

Jim

 

[Kevin D]

Also keep in mind lumagen is offering a $500 discount with new purchases, so if you were considering one anyway, the costar license is free.

Aside from faster switching times, this also enables you to have different calibration settings for each device and with multiple HDMI ports on the Strato and lumagen you can still maintain separate audio and video paths, something you can't do with the switch.

Kevin D.

 

[steelman1991]

Nothing I don’t think. As I understand it since I asked the same and was told that if you have a Co-star you can keep using but if you have a Lumagen Pro you can now get a software license from Kaleidescape for $495 and ditch the Co-star. If you are adding to a system and have the Lumagen Pro it might be worth going the license route rather than additional hardware and cables. Seems the license costs more than the physical switch.

Ah right so it's "pick your poison".

Mark's got it, that's exactly right. There are many K owners that have the Lumagen Pro in their systems, used primarily for better control over video scaling, calibration, and switching, among other things. There are also K owners considering a Lumagen Pro for use in their systems. It is for these owners and future owners that K and Lumagen got together to offer this capability and thereby eliminate the need for a Switch Kit being added to the video chain (meaning all the components and cables in between the source and the display).

If you currently have the Switch Kit, there is no major benefit to moving that (switching) function to the Lumagen other than eliminating the Kit from the chain, and possibly a slight improvement in switching speed between inputs (reported by Lumagen). To be clear, I personally like and use the Pro in my system, and have been using Lumagen products to improve video performance for 12+ years, it is a wonderful switch as well. (Disclosure: my company sells Lumagen products, but I was an owner long before adding the Lumagen products to our line.)

Jim

Thanks Jim - yes I currently have the Co-Star.

Also keep in mind lumagen is offering a $500 discount with new purchases, so if you were considering one anyway, the costar license is free.

Aside from faster switching times, this also enables you to have different calibration settings for each device and with multiple HDMI ports on the Strato and lumagen you can still maintain separate audio and video paths, something you can't do with the switch.

Kevin D.

I already have a Lumagen - so no real benefit other than what's previously been suggested.

Thanks all.

 

[cinelife]

I had a couple of Lumagen owners reach out to explain the benefits they see using the Pro, and that got me thinking that maybe my post can be read as the Lumagen doesn't provide much benefit versus the C0-Star. To clarify, that is NOT what I'm saying. I believe the Lumagen Pro series is the best VP available, and it offers all of the overall benefits I mentioned above.

My comment was in response to steelman1991's question about using his Lumagen (for some reason I thought he had one, maybe a past comment) versus the Co-Star he currently uses. In his case, it is just a difference in which device does the K source switching for him. He already has all of the other benefits the Pro brings to the setup.


Jim

 

[iansilv]

I had a couple of Lumagen owners reach out to explain the benefits they see using the Pro, and that got me thinking that maybe my post can be read as the Lumagen doesn't provide much benefit versus the C0-Star. To clarify, that is NOT what I'm saying. I believe the Lumagen Pro series is the best VP available, and it offers all of the overall benefits I mentioned above.

My comment was in response to steelman1991's question about using his Lumagen (for some reason I thought he had one, maybe a past comment) versus the Co-Star he currently uses. In his case, it is just a difference in which device does the K source switching for him. He already has all of the other benefits the Pro brings to the setup.


Jim

OK- will it improve picture quality for a 4K UHD Kaleidescape movie playing from a Strato to a native 4K UHD LCD 82" Samsung LCD display? Is there something about the video processor that can enhance picture quality even with 4K sources? From what I understand, and please correct me if I am wrong- if you have one of these you can set the optimal output for the display, turn off any video processing on both the TV and the K players, and let the Lumagen do the work, and what you get is an overall better picture across the board. Am I right?

 

[20hertz]

OK- will it improve picture quality for a 4K UHD Kaleidescape movie playing from a Strato to a native 4K UHD LCD 82" Samsung LCD display? Is there something about the video processor that can enhance picture quality even with 4K sources? From what I understand, and please correct me if I am wrong- if you have one of these you can set the optimal output for the display, turn off any video processing on both the TV and the K players, and let the Lumagen do the work, and what you get is an overall better picture across the board. Am I right?

You are correct. The big advantage of lumagen is its superior video processing and the ability to do Non linear stretching (for filling a screen when using 2.35/2.4 AR) and tone mapping. The last one in particular is a huge advantage, especially if you use a projector, given that appropriate brightness can be achieved, which helps avoid the dim picture when using HDR on projectors.

 

[cinelife]

Agree with 20hertz, but I think it should be mentioned that some owners benefit more than others. Projection systems see the most improvement, followed by the larger sized flat panels. Player and display manufacturers matter as well, some already have excellent processing. On smaller displays, the improvements seen may be negligible, or to the untrained eye not noticeable at all. As mentioned, the challenges of HDR on lumen constrained displays can helped as well, and are most noticeable on projectors.

Jim

 

[iansilv]

Ok but if I’m going 4K to 4K without a projector is there a benefit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[20hertz]

Ok but if I’m going 4K to 4K without a projector is there a benefit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That depends on which display and how big of a display you are using. The CMS in lumagen will help you get the best color calibrations possible and another benefit is the ability to get individual presets for different source devices connected to lumagen.

Imagine a scenario where a premiere input is automatically upscaled to 4k and displaying on your calibrated TV, while 4k has proper tone mapping (if needed).

Though not a current feature, another possibility in the future in terms of general graphics processing of the Video processor, is the ability to tone map at frame level. Not 100% sure if the processor is powerful enough for this, but when hdr10+ makes its entry, it will be interesting with NLS and other tone mapping options.

If you have a TV that supports Dolby vision and provides controls similar to lumagen with access to CMS for the calibrator, it may render this not so much useful or if you use only DV enabled titles. Even there you may have some use for the NLS, separate presets for sources etc..

It depends on your situation. If you use a projector, I would say definitely or as Jim pointed out, if you use a larger display, then maybe.

 

[cal87]

Am I the only one who thinks the Co-Star pricing does not make sense? The Co-Star switch seems to be a Kramer auto-sensing switch. Doing a search on the non-Kaleidescape branded similar Kramer switch shows a price close to the $495 Kaleidescape price. So if you buy the switch solution, seems like Kaleidescape is mainly charging for the hardware. So if you use the Lumagen solution, you pay the same price, and all profit for Kaleidescape.

Anyways, I have a Co-Star switch I am using in my bedroom. We let our kids use that system sometimes, so it makes sense for me. I don't use it for my main theater which includes a Lumagen Pro. The reason I don't use it there highlights what I think is the greatest problem right now with Kaleidescape.

Right now, I rarely watch plain HD at all. It's all UHD right now. So the sources I am using are the Strato and my Oppo 203. So I hardly use the M300 at all in my theater, thus no real need for the Co-Star. I have been increasing my disc collection. The lack of immersive sound from Fox and Universal is a huge issue (someone has to explain Lucy to me). No indication that this is going to be resolved. Now, we have The Matrix, a Warner title, lacking the Atmos audio. To me, the Atmos audio was a greater upgrade than the video for this title. Highest quality video AND audio above all else, including price.

 

[SJHT]

There was a lot of software development I assume to allow the integration of these products and K should have to charge for that through the license fee. Besides the integrated GUI shown on the Strato, “normal” costar and Lumagen costar really work differently. SJ

 

[iansilv]

Yeah- I was just really happy to be able to run both a Premiere and an Encore system together. This Luna gem idea sure sounds cool though. I am looking in to this.