I recently purchased the new 4K Whitney Houston movie at the Kaleidescape Movie Store. It came with a DTS HD Master Audio 5.1 Soundtrack. I see it now on Netflix in 4K with an ATMOS Sound Track! So I asked Kaleidescape "why do Netflix viewers get the 11+ channel Dolby ATMOS SoundTrack while Kaleidescape owners get the 5.1 Soundtrack?" I was hoping to hear something like "Wow thanks for pointing that out. We'll contact Sony Studios right away and find out what gives". Instead I got the same answer I have gotten in the past "Well that's what Sony sent us". Really? That's your answer!
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Netflix Viewers Get Dolby ATMOS While Kaleidescape Owners Get 5.1 Master Audio!
- Thread starter Staboot
- Start date
AusDan
Active member
I’ll second that. The audio tracks on streaming content is pretty highly compressed and flat sounding. We used to watch a lot of content on Apple TV, Netflix, and HBO prior to getting the K system, and my movie nights guests who work in audio editing would always tell me how compressed the movies sounded. They now tell me how wowed they are with the K audio. And I defiantly agree.
superpoppa
Well-known member
I definitely agree uncompressed will sound better. However I read the post as the better quality mix exists. The compression they use after the fact definitely can ruin that mix. But the fact remains a premium service should get the same mix and playback in it’s uncompressed glory. If I followed the original post correctly, then I agree.
Dolby Atmos is a container. It isn't guaranteed that its capabilities are fully utilized for all movies.
Per imdb (FWTW), this movie was mixed for Dolby Digital 5.1 for the theatrical presentation. It means there is a 6-track (or 5) uncompressed master recording of the theatrical mix. You can 1:1 replicate this in DTS HD-MA 5.1 or Dolby TrueHD 5.1.
To convert this to Dolby Atmos or DTS X, it needs to be re-mixed. Did Netflix unfold the theatrical mix to Atmos using an automated upmixer? Did they hire an intern to upmix it? Did they bring back to original sound engineer to do the remix for the home video soundtrack? Is it a nearfield mix optimized for soundbars with upfiring drivers? Too many questions to ask, rarely you will find real answers. If imdb is correct, the DTS HD-MA 5.1 soundtrack with Kaleidescape has better odds replicating the theatrical experience.
I watched the 1985 Soviet movie 'Come and See' on Criterion Blu-ray the other day. It is framed in 1.33:1 aspect ratio and has a mono soundtrack. The sound design and the editing was so good, it was an incredible experience. In the hands of a master film maker and a sound engineer, even a mono soundtrack can be impressive. I wouldn't blindly assume Dolby Atmos (or DTS X) is always the best.
Per imdb (FWTW), this movie was mixed for Dolby Digital 5.1 for the theatrical presentation. It means there is a 6-track (or 5) uncompressed master recording of the theatrical mix. You can 1:1 replicate this in DTS HD-MA 5.1 or Dolby TrueHD 5.1.
To convert this to Dolby Atmos or DTS X, it needs to be re-mixed. Did Netflix unfold the theatrical mix to Atmos using an automated upmixer? Did they hire an intern to upmix it? Did they bring back to original sound engineer to do the remix for the home video soundtrack? Is it a nearfield mix optimized for soundbars with upfiring drivers? Too many questions to ask, rarely you will find real answers. If imdb is correct, the DTS HD-MA 5.1 soundtrack with Kaleidescape has better odds replicating the theatrical experience.
I watched the 1985 Soviet movie 'Come and See' on Criterion Blu-ray the other day. It is framed in 1.33:1 aspect ratio and has a mono soundtrack. The sound design and the editing was so good, it was an incredible experience. In the hands of a master film maker and a sound engineer, even a mono soundtrack can be impressive. I wouldn't blindly assume Dolby Atmos (or DTS X) is always the best.
superpoppa
Well-known member
Interesting, this is new information to me. I didn’t know various services had the capability to create/upmix their own tracks. I assumed all of them do what K does, which is post what they get from the studios directly. If various services had the ability to create their own, I’m curious why K doesn’t do the same.
Possibly. Studios are notorious for creating near field mixes for home video market without any input from the film makers. You should listen to both Netflix and Kaleidescape versions and decide which sounds best to you.
Additionally, I've had the pleasure of experiencing several DCPs in the home. I can tell you that the consumer mix is nothing like the theatrical mix.
Without going into detail both the audio and picture are on another level. I have heard from industry insiders that Kaleidescape would be our best shot at providing a superior format with higher-quality picture and sound. I know I would gladly pay the price. K-scape, are you listening?
I Wanna Dance with Somebody got an update today. Dolby Atmos and Dolby Digital 5.1 are added.
www.kaleidescape.com
Whitney Houston: I Wanna Dance with Somebody
After breaking into the world of music, Whitney Houston creates unforgettable songs while overcoming heartbreaking challenges. Directed by Kasi Lemmons. Starring Naomi Ackie, Stanley Tucci, Ashton Sanders, and Clarke Peters. Purchase and download today in 4K HDR with Dolby Atmos audio.
www.kaleidescape.com
superpoppa
Well-known member
Does K or [mention]MikeKobb [/mention] have a post somewhere that explains why there is occasionally this lag between the release of the film on K until it’s audio is updated to it’s available lossless immersive track?
Whatever the reason, it’s pretty irritating. It’s a subjective thing I know but I watch new movies once and leave it quite a long while before going back to it - months, years, often never. It’s impact is in that first viewing. So I kind of want to see it in all of its glory. Like anyone else, I also enjoy getting to see a movie early. It seems that due to process, prioritisation whatever those two things have conflicts. Maybe worse is that there is no way of knowing if an Atmos version will follow or in what timeframe. We watched this Whitney movie a while back now and really enjoyed it but I would have preferred to enjoy the Atmos at the time.
It’s less of a complaint and more of a frustration that this is how it is. It’s not that obvious to me what might separate these two things that can’t be managed by ‘someone’ in the chain. If you find it please point it out please.
Absolutely - loads of great examples too. No complaint - more confusion/frustration....and not that it helps, but on the other side of it, the rest of the world gets "Guy Ritchie's The Covenant" in lossless HD, while we get it in 4K HDR.
thrillcat
Well-known member
It's understandably a bummer, I too frequently watch titles as soon as they're released - we watched Asteroid City last night. But it's not some sort of conspiracy like it was suggested by the OP.
Pretty sure I've heard it said in the past that if the Atmos files they're provided don't pass K's quality control they reach out and request a file, and post best available until an updated Atmos is available. Perhaps the other providers have lower standards (obviously) and are just providing compromised versions, and may or may not be quietly swapping out if better is provided.
The fact is, we don't know the QC process of ANY provider, it's not just K quietly trying to screw over their customers. How do we know that Netflix isn't posting low-quality Atmos files that have distortion in them at some point, potentially damaging our speakers? We don't. At least we know K has some sort of review process before making anything available in the store, which I appreciate.
And we might be more likely to get a response from @MikeKobb if he's mentioned correctly.
Of course it's not a conspiracy and TBF I think you may have misread the OP because I think his issue was their response to his query (Whether he/she is right or wrong). That response doesn't quite tie up with your suggestion above BTW.It's understandably a bummer, I too frequently watch titles as soon as they're released - we watched Asteroid City last night. But it's not some sort of conspiracy like it was suggested by the OP.
Pretty sure I've heard it said in the past that if the Atmos files they're provided don't pass K's quality control they reach out and request a file, and post best available until an updated Atmos is available. Perhaps the other providers have lower standards (obviously) and are just providing compromised versions, and may or may not be quietly swapping out if better is provided.
The fact is, we don't know the QC process of ANY provider, it's not just K quietly trying to screw over their customers. How do we know that Netflix isn't posting low-quality Atmos files that have distortion in them at some point, potentially damaging our speakers? We don't. At least we know K has some sort of review process before making anything available in the store, which I appreciate.
And we might be more likely to get a response from @MikeKobb if he's mentioned correctly.
It just seems a weakness in the current process but perhaps there is no possible fix, I don't know. If as per your explanation that K are clearly aware that there will be an Atmos track available then it would help me at least to know that it's coming and roughly when so that I can buy it but defer watching it. It's not the eof the world but it is frustrating, that's all.
Thanks
thrillcat
Well-known member
Honestly, the entire tone of the OP and the thread title are accusatory, that's where my read is coming from. It's a NYPost headline.
Pretty sure they talked about their QC process in a live chat with Keith Yates last year.
I'm guessing when a customer contacts the general customer service, that response is going to be a stock answer, vs reaching out to the content team about the specific title, so it should be taken with a grain of salt.
It sure would be great if they could give us the timetable of when a title will be updated to Atmos, but I'm also quite confident they don't have that timetable, and it's completely up to if/when the studio decides to provide an updated file.
superpoppa
Well-known member
Yea I’m just more curious than anything. Like you folks I like to watch soon as it’s released, but sometimes I find myself trying to decide should I wait for the eventual update.
I do hear everyone there are lots advantages to K and we get better versions many times. Would be just interesting to understand why the lag even happens.
[mention]thrillcat [/mention] post about QC makes sense. Do remember hearing K reviews each title so if it’s simple as that, make sense to me.
Also for most customers they don’t care or may not even notice this issue. For the enthusiast community on here, I think most folks like to know how it all works.
I do hear everyone there are lots advantages to K and we get better versions many times. Would be just interesting to understand why the lag even happens.
[mention]thrillcat [/mention] post about QC makes sense. Do remember hearing K reviews each title so if it’s simple as that, make sense to me.
Also for most customers they don’t care or may not even notice this issue. For the enthusiast community on here, I think most folks like to know how it all works.
Steve Bruzonsky
Well-known member
Unfortunately, with Netlix, Appletv plus, etc movies, even though they may be labeled Dolby Atmos, there may well be little to nothing going on in the height channels. You really have to watch the movie watching your Trinnov "meter" to see how much activity there is in the height channels. If a movie also comes out in blu ray or 4k Dolby Atmos, then I think there is more likelihood that there may be more hieght involvement with the Atmos track.
We have been kicking around this atmos issue once again over on the avs forum. Did we ever get any rhyme or reason from kscape on this?
Its super annoying when budget products for the masses like Apple tv and Vudu get Atmos assets and the Luxury brand does not. I would be annoyed if I rented the Beekeeper at 30 bucks and two weeks later they release it still for rent with atmos assets. Do I get to watch it again for free or, or have to pay again to enoy the atmos? When I bought my kscape I had no idea this atmos problem was so pervasive. Did anyone ever get an update on the rhyme or reason kscape does not present immersive tracks when the budget brands do?
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