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Missing Alternative Cuts in 4K HDR

LoveCinema

Active member
⭐️⭐️PATRON⭐️⭐️
TL;DR: The K Store is missing key alternative movie cuts in 4K HDR (Director's Cut, Extended Cut, etc.). Am I the only one that cares?

I love collecting and watching alternative cuts of movies, and have large physical and digital libraries. I researched the K Store before purchase and saw many alternative cuts and special features, giving me confidence in investing in the platform. In the last year I’ve seen quite a few releases come up short against discs and other digital stores, so I’ve been preparing a list of requests to submit. I realize every added movie is time and money, and Kaleidescape needs to chase sales. This made me wonder if my requests are really shared by a larger audience. Did K reduce efforts related to alternative cuts because the sales/data show owners don’t care?

To me, alternative cuts in the highest quality (and special features where available) aren’t something that drive me to spend hundreds of dollars on movies; they drive me to invest thousands in a new platform for “The Ultimate 4K System.” This is something that may be a little harder to see in individual title sales, which I hope to communicate to K directly.

I’m curious:
Do other owners value alternative cuts in the highest quality?
How important are these to your perceived value of a Kaleidescape?
Would you be willing to pay more or separately for an alternative cut?
(Me: Yup, very, and absolutely.)

Below is a list of desirable cuts that I've identified as missing. I don't intend to request all of these, but am including them for other owners to see and discuss.

Recent Releases:
The Abyss Special Edition 4K HDR*
Aliens Special Edition 4K HDR*
Avatar Collector’s Extended Cut 4K HDR*
The Exorcist Director’s Cut 4K HDR
The Mist & The Mist Director’s Cut 4K HDR
Rudy Director’s Cut 4K HDR
Star Trek: The Motion Picture Director’s Cut 4K HDR**

Older Omissions:
Apocalypse Now & Apocalypse Now Redux 4K HDR
Doctor Sleep Director’s Cut 4K HDR
Gladiator Extended Cut 4K HDR
Leon: The Professional Extended Cut 4K HDR
Parasite Black & White 4K HDR
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn Theatrical Cut 4K HDR
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country Director’s Cut 4K HDR

Unlikely HD Cuts:
Sin City Uncut, Extended, Unrated HD
John Rambo Cut (Rambo IV) HD
Rambo: Last Blood Extended Cut HD

P.S. To head off the “Buy the disc” replies, I do. I'm often reaching for a disc, whether it's 3D or the 4K of a personal favorite published by a boutique label. But, if the studio is on K, the movies/cuts are on other digital stores in higher res/color, and they're not obscure titles... am I wrong to want them on K? Or even expect them?

*I was hoping the James Cameron 4K HDR cuts would appear on the store this week alongside new disc releases; still holding out that hope...
**I'm aware ST:TMP has a whole thread dedicated to it on the forums.
 
DISCLAIMER: I am doing a bit of speculation here based on what I have seen in the store historically.

As far as I can tell these were more common when the store titles were based on bluray images and K was not doing their own encoding. There are some that once existed on the store and have actually been removed when the titles were updated (The extended editions for the first couple of Harry Potter movies and The Exorcist Extended Cut). Now that the workflow is different for most (all?) studios, there is more work and time involved for K to add alternate cuts to the store (Mike K elaborated a bit on this in the ST:TMP thread).

That being said, I wish K wouldn't default to providing theatrical cuts for most movies. Some of these like Apocalypse Now, The Exorcist and The Abyss have alternate cuts that are significantly different (and often prefered) than the theatrical cuts.

Despite the cost of entry for this platform, K is not rolling in dough like Apple is. This is a VERY niche platform and because of that K is a lot more concious about ROI for things like the quality of titles (HDR apparently costs more to provide from some studios) and things like adding alternate cuts for movies. I still feel like some of this is could be alleviated by having a lower cost of entry for the platform which would provide more customers for the store but K obviously disagrees.
 
TL;DR: The K Store is missing key alternative movie cuts in 4K HDR (Director's Cut, Extended Cut, etc.). Am I the only one that cares?

I love collecting and watching alternative cuts of movies, and have large physical and digital libraries. I researched the K Store before purchase and saw many alternative cuts and special features, giving me confidence in investing in the platform. In the last year I’ve seen quite a few releases come up short against discs and other digital stores, so I’ve been preparing a list of requests to submit. I realize every added movie is time and money, and Kaleidescape needs to chase sales. This made me wonder if my requests are really shared by a larger audience. Did K reduce efforts related to alternative cuts because the sales/data show owners don’t care?

To me, alternative cuts in the highest quality (and special features where available) aren’t something that drive me to spend hundreds of dollars on movies; they drive me to invest thousands in a new platform for “The Ultimate 4K System.” This is something that may be a little harder to see in individual title sales, which I hope to communicate to K directly.

I’m curious:
Do other owners value alternative cuts in the highest quality?
How important are these to your perceived value of a Kaleidescape?
Would you be willing to pay more or separately for an alternative cut?
(Me: Yup, very, and absolutely.)

Below is a list of desirable cuts that I've identified as missing. I don't intend to request all of these, but am including them for other owners to see and discuss.

Recent Releases:
The Abyss Special Edition 4K HDR*
Aliens Special Edition 4K HDR*
Avatar Collector’s Extended Cut 4K HDR*
The Exorcist Director’s Cut 4K HDR
The Mist & The Mist Director’s Cut 4K HDR
Rudy Director’s Cut 4K HDR
Star Trek: The Motion Picture Director’s Cut 4K HDR**

Older Omissions:
Apocalypse Now & Apocalypse Now Redux 4K HDR
Doctor Sleep Director’s Cut 4K HDR
Gladiator Extended Cut 4K HDR
Leon: The Professional Extended Cut 4K HDR
Parasite Black & White 4K HDR
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn Theatrical Cut 4K HDR
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country Director’s Cut 4K HDR

Unlikely HD Cuts:
Sin City Uncut, Extended, Unrated HD
John Rambo Cut (Rambo IV) HD
Rambo: Last Blood Extended Cut HD

P.S. To head off the “Buy the disc” replies, I do. I'm often reaching for a disc, whether it's 3D or the 4K of a personal favorite published by a boutique label. But, if the studio is on K, the movies/cuts are on other digital stores in higher res/color, and they're not obscure titles... am I wrong to want them on K? Or even expect them?

*I was hoping the James Cameron 4K HDR cuts would appear on the store this week alongside new disc releases; still holding out that hope...
**I'm aware ST:TMP has a whole thread dedicated to it on the forums.
I would add Midsommar to that list. The preferred director’s cut is available on disc and on iTunes.
 
I would add Midsommar to that list. The preferred director’s cut is available on disc and on iTunes.
Good catch. Another great example of a movie where I'd only want to watch the Director's Cut from now on, which means I'll either be going to Apple TV or reaching for a disc. That's happened more than I'd like in the last year, hence the original post.
 
I planned to start kind of similar thread since I also care for alternate versions of movies. Especially movies that is kind of "working" better dramaturgical. For example Terminator 2, The Abyss, Aliens, Da Vinci Code and the Lord of the Rings movies. But the list can go on.

I started thinking of this when Abyss and Aliens popped up in the store and I was about to buy both of them in 3.5 seconds. Just did a quick check so the better version was in 4K but it was not so I canceled both. Still waiting and I really would like to buy them along with all the others.

The Abyss and Aliens is two of my favorite movies and I've bought both of them several times. The Abyss I think I actually only bought three times but it haven't been released so many times. Aliens I think I bought 8 times.

The list so far.

Movies missing alternative version in 4K quality that's available on other formats
(Apocalypse Now: Redux and original version missing in 4K)


Movies missing longer version or is in less quality on K
 
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I planned to start kind of similar thread since I also care for alternate versions of movies. Especially movies that is kind of "working" better dramaturgical. For example Terminator 2, The Abyss, Aliens, Da Vinci Code and the Lord of the Rings movies. But the list can go on.

I started thinking of this when Abyss and Aliens popped up in the store and I was about to buy both of them in 3.5 seconds. Just did a quick check so the better version was in 4K but it was not so I canceled both. Still waiting and I really would like to buy them along with all the others.

The Abyss and Aliens is two of my favorite movies and I've bought both of them several times. The Abyss I think I actually only bought three times but it haven't been released so many times. Aliens I think I bought 8 times.

The list so far.
Great List. There's actually a couple on here that I pruned out of my initial list with thoughts like "No one else cares about the Commando Director's Cut." Glad to see I'm not alone. :)

However, some of these I accept that we'll likely never see because of contractual issues. Brazil's various cuts are tied up with Criterion, Waterworld's are with Arrow, Point Break is now Shout Factory (which doesn't share most 4K with digital stores), etc. But, most of these should be game for additions/upgrades assuming sufficient interest.

I'm with you on The Abyss and Aliens. I consider the special editions to be essential. I will legit have concerns about the K Store if we don't see these in the not distant future. These are amongst the biggest home video releases in years, the discs are sold out and backordered everywhere, and as of now the K Store is one of the only places they aren't available in 4K HDR. I mean, Apple doesn't even sell the theatrical cut of The Abyss directly; you buy the Special Edition in 4K Dolby Vision/Atmos and they toss in the theatrical cut as a special feature.

Gladiator 2 comes out later this year, and before I go see it I'll want to re-watch the Extended Cut in 4K HDR. I'm hoping I can do so on K...
 
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I don't see why they can't have other cuts. They have clearly done 4K extended/director's cuts for some of the Fast and Furious movies as well as the new Jurassic Park. They've done lots of them for HD titles as well. This is s service that is supposed to cater to film lovers and typically we like other cuts. I'd prefer not to have reasons to keep buying discs when I have K, especially when the movies are from studios that are supported and those cuts are clearly available to other digital retailers, meaning the assets are available.
 
I have been musing starting a similar thread for a while now so I am in complete agreement with the sentiments here.

There are 18 films that have been mentioned so far that I would like to see on K and another 8-9 from memory that are missing and only available in their standard cuts. I do wonder if it is a conscious decision by K to stick as closely as possible to theatrical versions, meaning such masterpieces as the Fast franchise are the exceptions, or if it's just apathy on their part or something else. Especially when as noted the assets seem to be available. Either way it's close to 30 titles for me that must remain as physical copies.

When you add in the 60+ films that K only have in HD when UHD discs are available, not even counting 4k on streaming platforms, that means I have a minimum physical collection footprint of close to 100 discs not including all the niche/specialist/boutique label titles that K don't have the assets for.

Disappointingly in the short time I have owned a K system I seem to have bought more discs and not less as I had hoped so my physical storage requirements are going the wrong way as for every film I replace on K I am buying another 1-2..... When I researched title availability before purchasing K I mistakenly assumed that the various cuts would be a given if they were available on other platforms provided K had the assets for the theatrical cut. This is exacerbated by more and more new releases I am interested in being only available to those few studios that K don't seem to have relationships with.

Anyway just so as to make an already overlong post even longer and in answer to the questions posed in the OP:

1. Yes I absolutely value alternative cuts in the highest quality possible.
2.Alternative cuts are very important to me when considering the value of a K system. Certainly in the top 2.
3. I would be willing to pay more for some alternative cuts but only for specific films. I usually settle on a preferred cut so I am unlikely to own multiple cuts of the same film unless I can help it. Brazil is one of those that immediately come to mind as an example as is Close Encounters.
 
There a quite a few other titles that are HD and haven't been upgraded to 4k/HD despite being on disk from the major studios, Sony, Paramount, MGM etc.


Missing Unrated Edition:


Missing Bootleg cut:


Missing Theatrical version:


Missing Extended cut:

 
Not disagreeing with anything above but struggle to understand how on earth you find the time and enthusiasm to watch so many different versions of the same movies. I own movies that I still haven’t watched for the first time yet :) I am sure there are some of them that must have some significant differences but the few times I have watched two versions it’s often been tough to spot them without a checklist. I do understand that we all watch movies for different reasons and value them differently.
 
Missing Unrated Edition:


Missing Bootleg cut:


Almost Famous is only the longer Bootleg Cut so it's the theatrical version that's missing.

I'm 99.9% sure it's the Unrated version of Robocop that's available. But I can be mistaken.

Edit 1: Shop states R and not Unrated so I'm down to 99.8% sure.

Edit 2: OK. I'm down to 0.01% certainty of the availability of Robocop Director's Cut with all the posts from others. I saw it a couple a months ago but it's one of those with minor differences and not changing the hole story so I must remember it wrong. I can't check my 4K download since my cinema is closed due to change of sewer system in the basement. Downloaded the HD and checked and that is the R-rated and not the director's cut.

Edit 3: I can now 100% confirm that the UHD version available is the Director's Cut of Robocop. The HD is the R-rated version. (Sewer system is finally finished so cinema room is accessible again)
 
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Not disagreeing with anything above but struggle to understand how on earth you find the time and enthusiasm to watch so many different versions of the same movies. I own movies that I still haven’t watched for the first time yet :) I am sure there are some of them that must have some significant differences but the few times I have watched two versions it’s often been tough to spot them without a checklist. I do understand that we all watch movies for different reasons and value them differently.
For me it is more about my prefered version not being available on the store or in an inferior quality.
 
Almost Famous is only the longer Bootleg Cut so it's the theatrical version that's missing.

I'm 99.9% sure it's the Unrated version of Robocop that's available. But I can be mistaken. Edit: Shop states R and not Unrated so I'm down to 99.8% sure.
Robocop is definitely the cut version. The running time says all which I regret not checking as I have already divested myself of an unrated steelbook that I am not going to be able to replace any time soon!
 
Rocky V and Rocky Balboa haven’t hit 4K yet (hopefully this year?). It’s been my assumption (hope) that K is waiting for the whole set.

Stand By Me 4K hasn’t appeared on any digital store yet, so I’m assuming it’s unavailable to K.

I think Robocop is beyond K’s reach. The Director’s Cut in HDR is released by Arrow, which doesn’t distribute it digitally. MGM (Amazon) distributes a 4K UHD of the theatrical cut only. K already has what all the other digital stores have. (Similar situation to Waterworld and others.)

Otherwise, more great titles. (I hadn't even realized Kingpin was updated to 4K on other platforms.)

There's a LOT more situations like this where digital stores don't even have a lesser 4K. One example is Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves Theatrical Cut. K only has the Extended Cut in HD. However, Arrow has released both cuts on disc in 4K Dolby Vision. So, although K should be able to add the Theatrical Cut, it would be HD only (like all other digital stores), so what's the point? If you want the best version(s) of that flick, you have to buy a disc, which is becoming more common with catalog titles.
 
Not disagreeing with anything above but struggle to understand how on earth you find the time and enthusiasm to watch so many different versions of the same movies. I own movies that I still haven’t watched for the first time yet :) I am sure there are some of them that must have some significant differences but the few times I have watched two versions it’s often been tough to spot them without a checklist. I do understand that we all watch movies for different reasons and value them differently.

For me it’s not that I want to watch the same movie multiple times in different versions. I only want (have time) to watch it once and when I watch it, I want to watch the version I prefer. Not necessarily the longer version.

Many movies is very different but some are, as you say, impossible to tell. Crash is a good example of a “pointless” longer cut.

But The Abyss is totally different movie in the longer version.
 
Robocop is definitely the cut version. The running time says all which I regret not checking as I have already divested myself of an unrated steelbook that I am not going to be able to replace any time soon!
I think Robocop is beyond K’s reach. The Director’s Cut in HDR is released by Arrow, which doesn’t distribute it digitally. MGM (Amazon) distributes a 4K UHD of the theatrical cut only. K already has what all the other digital stores have. (Similar situation to Waterworld and others.)

I can now 100% confirm that the UHD version available is the Director's Cut of Robocop. The HD is the R-rated version. Running time and info on the Movie Store seems to for the HD version. But it's lite 21 seconds longer version so they probably have the same running time.
 
I can now 100% confirm that the UHD version available is the Director's Cut of Robocop. The HD is the R-rated version. Running time and info on the Movie Store seems to for the HD version. But it's lite 21 seconds longer version so they probably have the same running time.
Interesting. Have you watched it? I didn't purchase as I noticed the running time was 1 minute shorter than it was supposed to be but as you have pointed out there is some rounding of running times. However, I might be tempted to give it a go if there is such as thing as an Easter sale in the store and this is available in it.

Then again this is one of those titles where regardless of which version you go for you probably aren't going to miss anything so it all seems a tad pointless. Indeed just this response has taken me longer to write than the additional footage would have taken me to watch!
 
Interesting. Have you watched it? I didn't purchase as I noticed the running time was 1 minute shorter than it was supposed to be but as you have pointed out there is some rounding of running times. However, I might be tempted to give it a go if there is such as thing as an Easter sale in the store and this is available in it.

Then again this is one of those titles where regardless of which version you go for you probably aren't going to miss anything so it all seems a tad pointless. Indeed just this response has taken me longer to write than the additional footage would have taken me to watch!
Yes, I watched it around Christmas. It was some kind of deal on it back then and my thoughts was exactly like yours. Bought it anyway since the difference is minor and still have the Criterion Laserdisc if I ever would care to see those seconds that they cut.

Just checked the few scenes today that is longer and altered to see which version it actually was.
 
I've researched the missing cuts listed in preparation for a post on the Store Hole Feedback thread. A lot of these won't make the post for the reasons below.

No alternate cuts exist (that I can find):
Pacific Rim: Uprising

These alternate cuts never made it past disc to digital stores (many only on DVD):
1776
Ace Ventura
Black Hawk Down
Crash
Dances with Wolves
The Doors (theatrical cut only available for rental on digital stores)
G.I.Joe Retaliation
Leaving Las Vegas

These alternate cuts are tied up with boutique labels:
Brazil (Criterion)
Robocop (Arrow)
Tree of Life (Criterion)
Waterworld (Arrow)

These movies on the K Store match other digital store offerings (main release 4K; alt cuts HD):
Avatar (I still hope K offers the longest cut in HDR, but to be fair no one else does)
Deadpool 2
Independence Day
 
I've researched the missing cuts listed in preparation for a post on the Store Hole Feedback thread. A lot of these won't make the post for the reasons below.

No alternate cuts exist (that I can find):
Pacific Rim: Uprising

These alternate cuts never made it past disc to digital stores (many only on DVD):
1776
Ace Ventura
Black Hawk Down
Crash
Dances with Wolves
The Doors (theatrical cut only available for rental on digital stores)
G.I.Joe Retaliation
Leaving Las Vegas

These alternate cuts are tied up with boutique labels:
Brazil (Criterion)
Robocop (Arrow)
Tree of Life (Criterion)
Waterworld (Arrow)

These movies on the K Store match other digital store offerings (main release 4K; alt cuts HD):
Avatar (I still hope K offers the longest cut in HDR, but to be fair no one else does)
Deadpool 2
Independence Day
Great investigation!

I double checked my Pacific Rim: Uprising cover and it is only one version. I must have misread the cover when I bought it. One more disc to D2D and one less disc to keep. Thank you. I update my post above.
 
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