mhbernheim
Active member
Hi, im reading on the manual where it says that the strato will convert 24hz content to 60hz ? Wont that introduce A LOT of judder and pan flickering?
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KScape Strato and FPS (24hz to 59hz)
- Thread starter mhbernheim
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No. All video players will do that since just about all films are shot at 24fps and most monitors run at 60Hz. The main beauty of the 120Hz displays were that they would not have the judder issues from a 3:2 cadence and most displays sold today have the higher frame rates, I think.
mhbernheim
Active member
My projector can do 24hz, i guess im wondering if the strato will output at the correct framerare so to avoid as much judder as possible
Hmm, I have not tried to see if that is one of its video settings.
Yes, if you prefer 24Hz output, just set the Strato to “Allow Display Mode Changes”, and it will switch to 24p output for film content.
The reason that the Strato defaults to 60p output is that the Kaleidescape onscreen display always runs at 60 frames per second for smooth animation, and some displays take a few seconds to re-synchronize when the source switches video format or frame rate.
As mentioned by Mr. Poindexter, many displays include a feature called inverse-telecine (often referred to by some brand-specific name). Telecine is the process by which film content’s 24-frame-per-second cadence is converted for display on television screens, so inverse-telecine un-does that conversion. As you noted, telecine can introduce some amount of judder. Typically it’s not a huge amount — many people don’t notice at all. This was necessary when displays had 60Hz refresh rates.
These days, it’s common for displays to have 120 or 240Hz refresh, and 24 obviously divides evenly into both of those numbers. So, to eliminate any judder, the display may employ inverse-telecine to recover the original 24p source, so that they can simply map that 24Hz signal onto their native 120 or 240Hz panels.
As an example, let’s say a projector has a native refresh rate for its panels of 120 frames per second. If Strato is outputting 24p content converted to 60p, the projector’s inverse-telecine will internally re-convert to 24p, then simply display each of those frames through five panel refreshes, so you get no added judder. (This assumes that you’ve turned off motion-smoothing, which would otherwise add interpolated frames rather than simply repeating frames.)
You can play with this to see what looks good to you. On my previous projector, I found the inverse-telecine to be near-perfect, but every now and then it would have a little hiccup, and those were distracting enough that I set up my players for “Allow Display Mode Changes” and accepted a few extra seconds of black when I started a film.
My new projector’s inverse-telecine is rock solid, so I switched my players to Minimize Display Mode Changes because there’s no visible difference to me compared to running the player at 24p, and I get slightly faster startup times.
Sorry for the long-winded answer. Occupational hazard.
The reason that the Strato defaults to 60p output is that the Kaleidescape onscreen display always runs at 60 frames per second for smooth animation, and some displays take a few seconds to re-synchronize when the source switches video format or frame rate.
As mentioned by Mr. Poindexter, many displays include a feature called inverse-telecine (often referred to by some brand-specific name). Telecine is the process by which film content’s 24-frame-per-second cadence is converted for display on television screens, so inverse-telecine un-does that conversion. As you noted, telecine can introduce some amount of judder. Typically it’s not a huge amount — many people don’t notice at all. This was necessary when displays had 60Hz refresh rates.
These days, it’s common for displays to have 120 or 240Hz refresh, and 24 obviously divides evenly into both of those numbers. So, to eliminate any judder, the display may employ inverse-telecine to recover the original 24p source, so that they can simply map that 24Hz signal onto their native 120 or 240Hz panels.
As an example, let’s say a projector has a native refresh rate for its panels of 120 frames per second. If Strato is outputting 24p content converted to 60p, the projector’s inverse-telecine will internally re-convert to 24p, then simply display each of those frames through five panel refreshes, so you get no added judder. (This assumes that you’ve turned off motion-smoothing, which would otherwise add interpolated frames rather than simply repeating frames.)
You can play with this to see what looks good to you. On my previous projector, I found the inverse-telecine to be near-perfect, but every now and then it would have a little hiccup, and those were distracting enough that I set up my players for “Allow Display Mode Changes” and accepted a few extra seconds of black when I started a film.
My new projector’s inverse-telecine is rock solid, so I switched my players to Minimize Display Mode Changes because there’s no visible difference to me compared to running the player at 24p, and I get slightly faster startup times.
Sorry for the long-winded answer. Occupational hazard.
mhbernheim
Active member
I have a JVC rs640, and I remem,ber seeing inverse-telecine setting in the clear motion drive section, if I keep the strato outputting all content at 60hz, and set the CMD to inverse telecine, will it show judder or more of a soap opera effect? on my apple tv i had to set this to allow frame rate matching to avoid it sending 24fps film to 60fps, nasty pan flickering and judder, when changing it to allow frame rate matching the judder is gone, ALMOST, but judder at 24hz is normal, right?
thanks for the long answer, learning a lot here...
thanks for the long answer, learning a lot here...
Don’t know about the RS-640 specifically, but generally, inverse telecine should not introduce any soap opera effect. By itself, it just recovers the 24fps original cadence of the film content. If the projector’s native panel refresh is 120Hz, then it just shows each frame through five refreshes, so no added smoothing. You could, of course, also enable motion-smoothing in the projector and that would produce some degree of soap opera effect. There are often multiple different levels available, from a comparatively subtle one that just smooths out film’s natural low-frame rate judder to aggressive ones that make it look more like video. I personally prefer film’s natural look so I don’t use these, but to each his own!
And yes, some amount of judder is normal at 24fps just because the frame rate is low. Cinematographers have learned over the years to limit how quickly they pan the cameras, to compensate for the inherent limitation of film.
And yes, some amount of judder is normal at 24fps just because the frame rate is low. Cinematographers have learned over the years to limit how quickly they pan the cameras, to compensate for the inherent limitation of film.