Kaleidescape review from AV Nirvana

[TomVaughan]

 

[ht guy]

Aside from audio and video quality, our top 5 features would be:
1) Titles otherwise not available in HDR/UHD
2) Frequent release dates in advance (sometimes well in advance) of the physical media release
3) Ease of use (including no forced advertising, warnings or previews, the ease of moving from title to title, and the automation of aspect ratios for the Lumagen)
4) Compared to physical media, the cost of (most) titles - especially with the sales
5) The sale of all our physical media / taking down storage units / less clutter

EDIT: ...and the apps! Second Screen from an iPad is perfect for browsing a collection to select your movie.

 

[Vodder]

Just really really, like really, (please!!!) need an improved way of viewing our entire libraries whether store or disc owned and whether present physically or downloaded - the latter is the big one for me. I have nearly 4000 titles and the only (clunky) way I can view them is in the "my movies" section on the web site. Family and friends aren't ever going to do that...

After 4 years of heavy use - this is the only thing I would call a "major" gripe / gap - the rest of it is epic and the continued software and app updates, fixes and features are awesome.

 

[AusDan]

Great review! One comment I would have is that the reviewer stated that he is not totally sold on the feature where you select a movie and immediately see a resort of similar movies. Even though this feature may not be totally useful for resorting your own movie collection (especially is it is small), it is a brilliant feature when you are in the store and looking for a movie to watch. It’s really one of the most powerful features of the system that we use all the time when we have an idea of a specific film to watch but want to see other related choices.

 

[MikeKobb]

One comment I would have is that the reviewer stated that he is not totally sold on the feature where you select a movie and immediately see a resort of similar movies.

I enjoy this feature as well, but it's worth noting that you can turn it off if you prefer not to have the automatic shuffle. Then the Shuffle button on the remote control will allow a manual shuffle when desired.

 

[thrillcat]

Great review! One comment I would have is that the reviewer stated that he is not totally sold on the feature where you select a movie and immediately see a resort of similar movies. Even though this feature may not be totally useful for resorting your own movie collection (especially is it is small), it is a brilliant feature when you are in the store and looking for a movie to watch. It’s really one of the most powerful features of the system that we use all the time when we have an idea of a specific film to watch but want to see other related choices.

Thanks Dan...I'm the reviewer.

I really like the feature, and I think in a Netflix situation where you can scroll for days to find something it would be brilliant. But as stated in the video, we generally decide what we're going to watch before we go downstairs and turn things on. I'm aware it can be turned off, I'm just trying to really get used to it before I give up on it.

The system is fantastic, and we love it. Just bringing up things for people to think about.

The reviews I do, unless otherwise noted, are products that I've researched, compared, evaluated and purchased. So obviously I loved this system, because I made the investment. Because I despise reviews full of nothing but specs and measurements, I like to discuss real-world thoughts, concerns, and observations to help real people make their decision. My "reviews" are more of a look inside my thought process.

 

[thrillcat]

Aside from audio and video quality, our top 5 features would be:
1) Titles otherwise not available in HDR/UHD
2) Frequent release dates in advance (sometimes well in advance) of the physical media release
3) Ease of use (including no forced advertising, warnings or previews, the ease of moving from title to title, and the automation of aspect ratios for the Lumagen)
4) Compared to physical media, the cost of (most) titles - especially with the sales
5) The sale of all our physical media / taking down storage units / less clutter

Hey there! Thanks for weighing in. I'm the reviewer, and like I mentioned, I also decided to buy based on features besides the quality - which I'll be going through in Chapter 2.

Compared to your list, there is some crossover, and also a flip-side as well. This is a solid list, though, and I agree with everything there - especially #5! We bought this house and it has pretty much zero storage, so as much as I can downsize physical items, the better!

 

[thrillcat]

Thanks for sharing this, Tom! I appreciate it! Looking forward to share Chapters 2 & 3!

On that note, I'm wondering if I should've started with Chapter 7 so I could do prequels...seems to be the trend...

 

[thrillcat]

I just uploaded Chapter Two and got it ready to go! Will be live this Wednesday at 12:15p PDT! Check it out!

 

[thrillcat]

Chapter Two is live!

Kaleidescape Review: What You DON'T Know About Kaleidescape

 

[TomVaughan]

Chapter 3 is posted! Another insightful video. Nice work @thrillcat !!

 

[thrillcat]

Chapter 3 is posted! Another insightful video. Nice work @thrillcat !!

Thanks Tom!

BTS fact - I shot this with my new 6K camera, and if I learned one thing, it's that I need to dust better and shave more often.

 

[TrackZ]

Nice work. I just watched 2 and 3 after earlier today recording a "top 5 reasons I bought into K" for my own channel. I promise I didn't copy. We have some similar history and takes on media and content collecting.

One point of discussion, I do think you conflate concepts of ownership and access. Apple and Vudu purchases are "purchases" in parallel to what a Kaleidescape purchase is.

People say "streaming" but it really means two things. One is streaming being a licensed subscription service. The other being a delivery mechanism for content that is sent to you over the internet as you play it. iTunes is "streaming" only in the latter sense, not the former. Netflix is both.

I know this isn't 100% and content can get taken on any digital platform. I owned the original Transfers 1986 movie on K in HD. It disappeared from the store *and* from my purchases. It came back a little while later in 4K, but I no longer owned it and didn't have an upgrade offer. I had to rebuy it. This is the only instance of this I've experienced with Kaleidescape.

I'm not aware of Apple taking iTunes purchases away from me, but I have films and TV series I bought or redeemed that are not in the store to purchase any more. They remain streamable in my library. They are not taken away. Same for K, an example being the Laika films. Those have come and gone from the K store a couple of times, yet the ones I bought remain in my library. iTunes works the same way.

With regards to K, having something downloaded doesn't mean you "own" it any more than if it were delivered to you in a stream, assuming it's on a platform on which you've bought it (and not Netflix, D+, or whatnot). Downloading just means you can access it during an internet outage because the assets are local and a network check is not immediately required to authorize playback. As you said, you can't buy or download content offline with K.

 

[thrillcat]

Nice work. I just watched 2 and 3 after earlier today recording a "top 5 reasons I bought into K" for my own channel. I promise I didn't copy. We have some similar history and takes on media and content collecting.

One point of discussion, I do think you conflate concepts of ownership and access. Apple and Vudu purchases are "purchases" in parallel to what a Kaleidescape purchase is.

People say "streaming" but it really means two things. One is streaming being a licensed subscription service. The other being a delivery mechanism for content that is sent to you over the internet as you play it. iTunes is "streaming" only in the latter sense, not the former. Netflix is both.

I know this isn't 100% and content can get taken on any digital platform. I owned the original Transfers 1986 movie on K in HD. It disappeared from the store *and* from my purchases. It came back a little while later in 4K, but I no longer owned it and didn't have an upgrade offer. I had to rebuy it. This is the only instance of this I've experienced with Kaleidescape.

I'm not aware of Apple taking iTunes purchases away from me, but I have films and TV series I bought or redeemed that are not in the store to purchase any more. They remain streamable in my library. They are not taken away. Same for K, an example being the Laika films. Those have come and gone from the K store a couple of times, yet the ones I bought remain in my library. iTunes works the same way.

With regards to K, having something downloaded doesn't mean you "own" it any more than if it were delivered to you in a stream, assuming it's on a platform on which you've bought it (and not Netflix, D+, or whatnot). Downloading just means you can access it during an internet outage because the assets are local and a network check is not immediately required to authorize playback. As you said, you can't buy or download content offline with K.

I've had titles yanked from my VUDU/iTunes in the past due to rights issues, there is some similar activity happening with Studiocanal titles in Germany & Austria right now. Perhaps @TomVaughan or another rep will weigh in, but I'm pretty sure I've heard Kaleidescape reps state explicitly that you definitively own content you purchase on their stores, and it cannot be revoked or removed from your hardware.

 

[SJHT]

I have some titles that were removed from the store. I can still find and download them from “My Movies”….

 

[tov5005]

With regards to K, having something downloaded doesn't mean you "own" it any more than if it were delivered to you in a stream, assuming it's on a platform on which you've bought it (and not Netflix, D+, or whatnot). Downloading just means you can access it during an internet outage because the assets are local and a network check is not immediately required to authorize playback. As you said, you can't buy or download content offline with K.

Per the SLA terms, Kaleidescape does differ from the other mentioned services in regards to content ownership in the sense that they will not ‘delete’ previously downloaded content. You can use the link below for reference.

https://www.kaleidescape.com/wp-content/uploads/SLA.pdf

Here is the specific excerpt:

“Licensed Content purchases will remain available for download and for re-download from the Movie Service, subject to our arrangements with the rights owners of such Licensed Content. If, for example, such third party agreements expire or are terminated, or we are notified of certain licensing restrictions, you may lose some or all of your rights to download or re-download certain Licensed Content to your Kaleidescape System. However, such events will have no effect on your ability to play such Licensed Content previously downloaded to your Kaleidescape System provided you have not deleted the Licensed Content from your System.”

 

[TomVaughan]

In the wonderful world of Intellectual Property law, the words "purchase" or "sell" refer to an actual change of ownership of the IP. Of course, that's not what's happens when we get content from the studios and our end customers get content from us. The studios license their content to Kaleidescape and other video services, and we license the content to our customers. So when you "buy" a copy of a movie, you're buying a license to access that movie. Our SLA describes this arrangement at a high level. Of course, we do everything we can to ensure that our customers get exactly what they expect. We are growing the number of studios we license content from, and the amount of licensed content in a methodical and strategic fashion.
Studios sometimes pull availability of specific titles, meaning we can no longer make the title available in our store (sell a license to new customers). Travis (@thrillcat ) was right to point out that streaming services have to cut off access when they no longer have a license to the title. But as long as our agreement with the studio survives, and the rights continue to allow this, existing customers can get access to the titles they have licensed on our headend to download to their systems. I don't expect any issues there, and of course we would take whatever actions might be needed to notify customers if there were any potential issues.

 

[JohnJ]

I would like to add my experience to the above regarding availability of “purchased” content on the K Store. I have a number of titles that are no longer available on the Store. They are still available in the ”My Movies” section.

I did have one title that disappeared from the “My Movies” section. I notified K and they verified that it was missing and that they would look into it and see what they could do. They did warn me that it might take awhile. A few months later this title showed up again in the ”My Movies” section but is still not available in the Store for new purchases. I assume K had to negotiate something with the studio to get it back. I also have gotten an “update” on this title with audio and video improvements since then.

So if you are missing a title that you have “purchased”, reach out to K so they can try help.

John

 

[TrackZ]

Travis (@thrillcat ) was right to point out that streaming services have to cut off access when they no longer have a license to the title. But as long as our agreement with the studio survives, and the rights continue to allow this, existing customers can get access to the titles they have licensed on our headend to download to their systems.

"Streaming" services like Netflix cut off access. Apple iTunes, Vudu, etc. (ideally, just like K) maintain your right to purchased content in your library for playback even if they lose the right to continue selling the content. Except for very rare occasions, which do happen, where something might get pulled fully.

Just to be clear, I'm not being argumentative, just being a stickler on terminology because I see this concept gummed up in so many discussions. There's a delineation between a "streaming" subscription service and a digital sale, regardless if you access that sold content via a stream or you download it.

That new situation with all those movies being pulled overseas it pretty sad, but I would never have recommended buying/collecting a digital library of movies with Sony. I would only stick to more committed companies like Apple, K, and such for buying online content.

The statement of K not reaching into your server to delete content is nice, but IMO that's a logistical nuance. I don't consider my owned content with K to be what I have downloaded. It's what's in my online library. What I have downloaded is just what I have opted to access right now (although I still very much look forward to a future of progressive download/playback ). That's especially true for those of us with smaller storage than our owned libraries (1,300ish movies with a 12TB Terra here).

 

[TrackZ]

Oh, I forgot to add from your videos as well. +1,000,000 for K to get in Movies Anywhere. We've all wanted that for a long time.

EDIT: MA support would address and remove, for me, much of any major concerns I have or considerations I might have in mind to exit the platform.